National Enduro Series - 2007

Are you going down for the meeting?

65 miles? Where's the endurance in that? I don't like the sound of that at all. :(

Timr said:

65 miles? Where's the endurance in that? I don't like the sound of that at all. :(

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Tim thats "minimum" mileage so land challenged promoters can get an enduro. Some events can kick your butt into submission with 65 miles.

Fred T said:

Tim thats "minimum" mileage so land challenged promoters can get an enduro. Some events can kick your butt into submission with 65 miles.

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Yes, I know that some short enduros can be very challenging...especially to us mortal "B" guys. But the true nature of a National should still be a LONG event, taking many hours to complete. We're only talking about 8 - 10 events here. So, the question becomes...do we really want/need a land challenged club to host a national. Nobody is stopping them from putting on a "short" enduro for their regional or district series. It's just that if they can't get 85 (used to be 89) ground miles then they don't qualify to host a national enduro. I don't see what the big deal is. Call me old school or traditional or whatever. I still don't like it.

You guys know that when you lower the minimum standard that over time the minimum standard becomes the standard. Look at the GNCC series. Plenty would argue that over time, the trails got wider and the races got shorter. The predecessor of the GNCC series was called the 100 miler series, because each race was 100 miles long, just like blackwater. Now, many of the races aren't even 3 hours for the pros. It's 6 laps of an approx 10 - 12 mile course; so 60 - 72 miles in length. That's over 25% shorter than they used to be. The same will happen here too. And the long 100 mile enduro will be the anomoly of the series, not the norm AND, it'll be the one that everyone but the pros will complain about.

OK, I feel better. I'm off my soapbox now. Please carry on with the regularly scheduled programming. :)

Timr - Your reluctance to change is understandable. Here is another change I heard about. All nationals would be closed course and restart format. How closed course is defined I don't know.

Life is always a changing and learning experience.

Young Ted

INCA said:

How closed course is defined I don't know.

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I think it just means you don't need license and lights, etc. Special permits can be had to run the "illegal" bikes down roads. Although I was not there I understand Harrisson this year was this "closed course" format, but still used roads. Works for me if they can swing it. I'd like to keep time-keeping, but can give that up if it saves the sport and makes it worth while for the clubs to go to the trouble to put them on because more ridders can attend.

bbarel said:

I think it just means you don't need license and lights, etc. Special permits can be had to run the "illegal" bikes down roads. Although I was not there I understand Harrisson this year was this "closed course" format, but still used roads. Works for me if they can swing it. I'd like to keep time-keeping, but can give that up if it saves the sport and makes it worth while for the clubs to go to the trouble to put them on because more ridders can attend.

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bbarel - my observation is that lights are pretty much optional equipment at enduros National or otherwise.

I'd like to keep time-keeping, but can give that up if it saves the sport :cool:

Well...I had a long talk with Terry Cunningham (my childhood hero...4x National Enduro Champ...430 Husky Auto and white hi-point boots) about this very topic a few years ago. He agreed that our American format of enduro racing was worth preserving, but we both knew that the details of the "game"...computers and understanding how to ride possibles was a barrier to entry to people who just wanted to show up and go fast.

People can't handle the fact that the fastest rider doesn't always win...the smartest rider sometimes wins...sometimes the gambling rider wins...

Personally, I've always liked all of these aspects of this sport. A no-time keeping, restart only format means the end of real enduro racing. So, if that's going to be the format then the 65 mile thing is kinda irrelevant. (Yes, you can fit 6 - 8 special tests, that are started with restarts and very short transfer sections in 65 ground miles.)

It's a sad day for our sport. :(

My dad raced D-14 enduros when we moved to Michigan from Engand in the mid-70s. We moved to Texas and I raced my first enduro down there when I was 15. That race was put on by TRH and held on the same trail system where they still hold the Caney Creek National enduro. Fortunately, for me, I've been able to race enduros all across the southeast in something like 9 different states.

I've been on a self imposed break due to have very small kids and having to travel a lot for work. Sounds like enduro racing as we all knew it will not be there when I can get back into it. You know, rolling up to a restart and the starting a stop watch to see how long it takes to traverse a section and then adding up the elapsed times is called rally racing. It's huge in europe and the do it over then on motorcycles, not just in cars. I'm not saying that it won't be fun...it just won't be enduro racing with secret checks on various possibles, and debating on weather to go in hot, and knowing the various tendencies of the different clubs...and memorizing their terrain on their club grounds and learning where they like to place checks year after year.

I could go on and on.

"It's a sad day for our sport." from Timr

I would say this statement is a little over-sensational!

Timr, this is really a matter of perspective. My friends and I are very new to enduro's in the last few years so we do not have the history I see you have. As a result we do not view these changes as "A sad day for our sport"! While we do very much enjoy the "traditional" enduro format of timekeeping we also very much enjoy the restart format. No less no more just different!

I can see your point from your perspective that these changes would be very dissappointing to you and others like you but for new racers like us it will not have that same impact. I think that is why they are making these changes. My guess is that they feel this is a way to possibly increase attendance. From what I understand attendance has been declining over time. Myself and 4 other guys 1st tried an enduro because it was restart format. We did not have any other friends to explain timekeeping yet so this was a great way to get us hooked!

I went to 7 Nationals this year. Of those 7 the Harrison race had the highest entries if I am not mistaken. They used this new format and it was awesome!

I would also guess if there more guys like you still racing and attendance was higher they may not feel a need to make any changes!!!

All a matter of perspective!

I know. Everything Brian said is true...I even agree with it...I just don't like it.

There's aspects of our sport that people who really understand it enjoy. For example, I remember my first real enduro...when I was in college and knew enough to kinda understand what was going on. I was a newbie in my DB club and I was riding on a row with our club prez and the 250A champion. We were riding in a little hot and peaking around trees and stopping and listening and working our way through the section before hitting the "going in" check. It was then that I realized that this was also a thinking man's game.

After that, I jumped off of that row and found a club member to mentor me. He taught me how to prep my roll chart, how to study the details and figure out what the club was thinking. Over spagetthi in the motorhome the night before, we would break down the race and mark places on the roll chart where we though we might gamble. After that, two events stand out in my head.

First, at a race down in gulfport miss, I saw my mentor up ahead of me through the trees. I put my head down and closed the gap to his wheel. when I caught, him, I wondered why we weren't going faster. Then I looked down at my computers and noticed that we were on time. shortly there after, we hit a check. I had just zeroed my first 24mph check out! (Of course, the course wasn't real tight and that check wouldn't mean too much in the grand scheme of the results. But it was a milestone in my young enduro career.) turns out a bunch of people got lost in that section so the lack of points there helped me trophy that day.

Second. At an enduro in Wiggins, MS, I decided to take a big gamble by myself and it payed off. At the reset on the other side of the test, the club prez came over to look at my card and was flabbergasted that I had beat him through that section by over 3 mins! In fact, he was so flustered that he burned a going in check later in the day! :)

These are the things that I will miss when the format changes.

Mike, those numbers are sad. You've been down here, so you've seen that attendance at SETRA, or SERA or FTR is not as bad as those events that you described. :(

I see that they added NATRA (West point TN) and Maplesville to the National list this year. Both of those are SERA/SETRA races and I bet there will be 300+ at both events.

I noticed that Georgia and Trail Riders of Houston are not on the list this year. And, it's been a few years since Acadiana Louisiana has been on the list too.