new hickup

Wolf · May 3, 2004

My 2000 kdx200 has developed a new hickup, and frankly, I'm not sure which direction to go.
Jetting: 45pilot, stock needle - 2nd clip from top, 152 main, AS 1.5 turns. Temp about 55 degrees, Wisconsin.
PC pipe, stock silencer.

The bike pulls well off the bottom, I get to the mid range and it seems to stutter a bit, once I get through that it pulls nicely on top. I have tried different needle positions, no luck.
Stock needle I believe is 1174k (me thinks). I also tried a 1173 needle, but can not for the life of me remember the letters on it.

I could use a little advice on where to go next. Yes, I am aware of the great site from CD, as a matter of fact, here is the link:
http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=70290

My apologies to you in advance, I know this has been covered before.

Rhodester · May 3, 2004

R1173N. At lower elevations and 55 degrees with an aftermarket pipe and a lean needle position I'd think that you're at least lean on the main. My bike would be seizing the piston with those settings considering your temperature. I would try AT LEAST 1 size up on the main and raising the needle too (lower clip position). I'm currently running 42-CEL/5-155 AS 1 1/4 @ 2800' and 70 degrees. I'm as lean as I dare go with this set up. With a 'B' needle (like the 2 your using) in a high clip position it would be leaner still on the main because the 'B' needle has a broader tip (ie. leaner, less vacuum signal to the main jet) than the 'C' needle.

canyncarvr · May 3, 2004

'Mid range' refers to what?

A reference in the same sentence to '...off the bottom..' and I don't know if you're speaking of rpm 'range' or throttle position.

Obviously it should be a reference to throttle position if their is a question about what jet should be where.

Wolf · May 3, 2004

cc- sorry, let me clarify:
Off the bottom - idle to about 1/4 throttle - great response
1/4 Throttle to 2/3 throttle - flat with stutter and smoke:)
2/3 to full - great.

I have tried the 155 main, it actually made the stuttering worse - from 1/4 throttle all the way to full. I should mention that I did not perform a plug chop (should have).
My bike has never produced as much spooge as it did on Saturday and was extremely hard to start.

canyncarvr · May 3, 2004

Dammit Jim!!

Second time in a day that after logging on to this board and replying to a thread that I get a 'not logged on' complaint and everything posted is wiped out.

:( :( :( :(

re: '1/4 Throttle to 2/3 throttle - flat with stutter and smoke'

Please describe the load conditions.

Rhodester · May 3, 2004

I have to admit that it sounds like a rich condition in that throttle range from what you're describing, although that sounds unbelievable to me from where you're jetting is at. That's assuming that you're under at least a lightly pulling load. I would check my float height and general carb cleanliness as well as air filter. Is the silencer clean/clear? After that I'd drop that needle down to clip 1 and if that didn't do it I'd go to a 150 main and do a plug chop test. That needle in position 1 is unbelievably lean, especially with a 150 main. Is the choke sticking at all? How's the condition of the float needle and seat? Maybe raw gas is over flowing the bowl through a leaking needle and seat. Beyond that I'd be stumped.

John Harris · May 4, 2004

I think you are too rich on the primary. Try a 42 with the needle in the second clip from the top. Watch carefully on the top end because you may be lean there. You probably need a 152 or 155 on the main jet. Presently, too rich from the primary lets you live with too lean on the main. Yes, reset the air screw when you change the primary. Cheers John

Wolf · May 4, 2004

Upon visual inspection, the float level seems to be right (parallel to the carb when tab makes contact with needle). the float needle and seat look good, based on what I saw on CD's page. Carb is clean.
cc- load condition - not sure what you are asking me...sorry. terrain was flat, sandy (Michigan stuff).

This may be a stupid question, but could my top end be the problem?
The reason I ask this is starting procedure cold:
choke, twist the throttle multiple times, kick, fire, stall, repeat about 7 or 8 times until the bike keeps running.
the "having to twist the throttle" part makes me think that I need x-tra fuel in there to create a seal (rings)?

John, with a 42, wouldn't it be near impossible to start the bike?

Rhodester · May 4, 2004

On some 4-strokes and cars with carburetors there is an accelerator pump that mechanically shoots gas in to the intake when the throttle is operated. I don't see anything that would be happening by twisting the throttle before kicking on a 2-stroke. Beyond an obstruction in the intake or exhaust systems (did you check that silencer?) I'm stumped.

Wolf · May 4, 2004

Rhodester,
No, I haven't checked the silencer yet, but will do so tonight.
I agree with you on the throttle twist 100%, but if I don't do it there is no fire :ugg: :think:
Its quite frustrating, really. I am waiting for the :clue: moment....

canyncarvr · May 4, 2004

re: 'with a 42, wouldn't it be near impossible to start the bike?'

Why would that be? I'm running a 38 right now if you're thinking a 42 is too little.

The 'flat' part regarding terrain makes me wonder if your not talking about a light-to-no load 'happy' skipping 2-stroke. If you're going to test response, there needs to be a load (like rhodester already said). For there to be a performance/response stumble over such a wide throttle range (1/4 to 2/3) there would have to be a pretty big problem.

When did you last change reeds?

Yeah...the 'twist the throttle' part...what is that supposed to be doing? More often than not you will be better off leaving the throttle pretty much alone. (I don't, but I know what I'm doing. Ha! Thassa joke, son!!)

Wolf · May 4, 2004

cc, you ever been in Michigan Sand after a good rain? Believe me, there is load ;)

re: reeds...now why didn't I think of that. I know they are wore out, they're stock! I can't believe I forgot about that. I planned on changing at the end of last season, but I didn't write it down....so I forgot....I guess I killed too many braincells when I was young...not that I'm old or anything... :debil:

Ok, so this weekend I'll try a 42 pilot, play with the main, do a plug chop, and...change reeds!

and now I will do a search on what reeds to get :thumb:

Rhodester · May 4, 2004

You might try a compression test to give you some idea as to the condition of the top end. Might also try starting it without the silencer in place just to see what happens. Take a look at your timing plate to see if it worked loose. Have you tried a fresh plug? Just brain storming a little to see if something kinda off the wall is contributing to the problem.

Wolf · May 4, 2004

Thanks for all the help and patience.
I am going to tackle this one step at a time, as recommended. I know the reeds are toast, I'll fix that first (hey, its the easiest part).
I know I am due for a topend, I'll fix that next.
After that, I'll play with the jetting some more, and after that I'll probably post some more ignorant questions......:)

John Harris · May 4, 2004

One more off the wall thing? Especially with the hard starting is your choke working correctly? Sounds like it could not be coming on right and then not going off correctly either--like the actuator rod was messed up. I have heard of KDX riders (and others) that had to tip their bikes over to one side (sorry I can't remember which way for KDX) to "flood" to start cold. Just one more thing to mess with your mind. And people wonder why I have grey hair? John Harris

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