New Honda Dirt Bikes

stormer94 · Sep 26, 2001

woodsrider,

Besides, how many of us will actually be buying of of these bikes for our own use?

look at my profile, ME, I'm the target audience, kids 8-12 years old and a wife that dabbles and we use it for a pit bike at stock car races. I am the guy they targeted this toward, and I'm a bit disappointed.

I'm the guy that was looking at a $9000 BBR bike so my kid would have the right bike, safety first. I saw the CRF150F title, nearly wet my pants at the thought, saw the pictures and some specs and nearly cried. They are building these bikes for US, you and I. I think it's perfectly acceptable to be critical.

You said it yourself, they upgraded the XR100 and the Xr200, if all they did was add displacement and a front disk brake, that sounds like a running change to an existing line.

I know these things are planned out years in advance, but for the last 2 years, we've all been drooling for a kickin' 150cc thumper for the kids to race, this ain't it. This was a quick patch to an XR like you said to compete with the TTR bikes. This is not a bike worthy of a CRF title, it's an updated XR, and that's it. I think that's quite fair.

zio · Sep 26, 2001

Originally posted by WoodsRider
Boy, some people sure got their panties in a wad over this one... no

Hey woodsrider, time to pull your foot out of your mouth- thongs don't bunch! Shows how much you know!

stormer94 · Sep 26, 2001

Talked to my Honda Dealer today, and the word he got today, is that the XR100 and the XR200 are to be discontinued. AND, what he is allowed to order in the CRF150F and the CRF230F are to be based on his sales of the Xr100 and the XR200.

Direct replacments... not race bikes.

Zio, Thongs can bunch, you just gotta really work 'em :p

XRpredator · Sep 26, 2001

Re: silver linings . . .

Originally posted by firecracker22
Just think, though, Dualsportr, how good these are for our respective employers. What fun we can have with the new CRFs!

How many do they have on hand already, hmmmmm?
How much of a hand did they have in their design?

I'll bet they'll never tell . . .:D

OnAnySunday · Sep 26, 2001

Originally posted by stormer94 :
"I'm the guy that was looking at a $9000 BBR bike so my kid would have the right bike, safety first."

You need disc brakes and supertech suspention to be safe???
So riding ability and skill dont count??
Just set 'em loose on a 20+ bhp bike and watch what happens eh? yeesh
Guess that makes me a dead man on my '82 XL500R.
(glad i have at least a bit of skill.)

"I know these things are planned out years in advance, but for the last 2 years, we've all been drooling for a kickin' 150cc thumper for the kids to race, this ain't it. "

Consider a CR80 or 125. Or modify a TTR125 / XR100 and teach the kid to ride better. In the end skill will beat high tech most every time.

OnAnySunday · Sep 26, 2001

Originally posted by stormer94 :
"A company like BBR has found people willing to fork out $7500-$10,000 for a kick butt mini, all the mags rave, people love them... It really should have been the handwriting on the wall for Honda."

And how many people do YOU know who would fork over 10,000 for a mini thumper???
No one i know would. Heck i wouldnt pay half that for my own ride!!
And as far as high tech goodies, i dont think most avarage riders need 'em.
I dont.
Liquid cooling and disc brakes are nice, (and i wouldnt turn 'em down if they are on a bike i can get a good deal on) but drums are fine, and air cooling just means less parts too break.
Better bikes are good, but i'm not going to go into spasems just because i dont have discs and water in my cylinder head.

Maybe i missed the boat here cause when i bought my bike i simply thought dirtbiking was all about having a good time.
I never new it was about having the best bike on the face of the earth!
Boy do i feel stupid! :confused: :confused:

stormer94 · Sep 26, 2001

OnAnySunday,

You need disc brakes and supertech suspention to be safe???

You need them to be safe if you do the kind of riding/racing we are trying to do. Didn't say we were good at it, but that we are trying. Simply put, trying to race a TTR125 is not only a bad idea, it's not safe, the bike was not designed for it, regardless of ones riding skills. My son is to big for a Cr80 (150+ pounds), and to short for a regular 125 (in addition to the fact that he is NOT ready to be on a regular 125). So for us, a 20hp mini thumper is the perfect bike.

how many people do YOU know who would fork over 10,000 for a mini thumper???

evidentally enough for the folks at BBR to make a good living, and get there stuff in all the mags. I'd do it, so there's one. look at the pics on BBR's page, they can't build them fast enough. In my situation, I would be putting my childs welfare in place of the bikes price tag to save a few bucks. Makes that $9000 seem like a bargain. AND, it still has some value next year, so you're really only out the depreciation.

I am not interested in the best bike on the face of the earth, I am interested in the best bike for my son's skill level and his size. Un-fortunately or fortunately depnding on how you look at it, BBR makes a bike that fist right in between the ttr125 and a YZ125. And that is exactly what is needed for kids in transition.

BadgerMan · Sep 26, 2001

I have seen one BBR bike. There can't be but a few dozen of them in existence. There are thousands of XR100's and 200's. That should explain why Honda chose to make better XR's rather than compete with the BBR's, KTM's and all those other lean and adaptable niche manufacturers.

Personally, I don't think Honda will ever build a truly competitive woods racer. They haven't chose to do it in the last forty years (MR175 and MR250?) so they must not see a lucrative market for such a bike, at least from their perspective as a huge corporation.

And frankly, I love little foofoo bikes for what they are. I am going to have to create an excuse to get one of those CRF150's. My daughter should out grow her XR70 by fall of 2002.....................

DualSportr · Sep 26, 2001

I have seen one BBR bike. There can't be but a few dozen of them in existence

More than that. But definitely below Honda numbers (more like Kawasaki four stroke numbers probably :) )

Just think, though, Dualsportr, how good these are for our respective employers. What fun we can have with the new CRFs!

I completely agree! I was just talking to Chris about it yesterday. Hope you're having fun up there, but the gang really needs to come down to central oregon sometime this fall and ride with us (we do a company ride every October). C'mon, talk those boys into taking a day off!

firecracker22 · Sep 26, 2001

Originally posted by DualSportr
C'mon, talk those boys into taking a day off!

Yeah, right! It's been NUTS around here. We're trying to get ready for the US Open AND keep up with parts orders, and it's hard enough to do one of those by itself. Duane and I are both gimpy with bad knees, too. :(

But I will try. It would be nice to go ride again . . . after my knee feels better, of course . . .

SpeedyManiac · Sep 26, 2001

Think of how many people ride dirtbikes, now think how many people buy BBRs. Your average rider can NOT afford a $10000 minibike. XR100Rs are safe, so will the CRF150F, but safe is also relative. Any dirtbike can be dangerous. Most people don't hurt themselves on XR100Rs, it's usually some high-powered race bike. An XR100R is safe, for what it is intended to do. It is meant for going out on trails, teaching kids to ride. I don't see a problem with good drum brakes, they work quite well. It's the same with mountain bikes, there are v-brakes that work better than disc brakes. Disc brakes are nice, but they are EXPENSIVE!!!!! An XR100R is meant for MX, so don't whine that it wont MX well, it wasn't designed to do that. Just like the CRF150F, it will probably do better on a track, but is still meant as an entry level are small trail bike. It will do just fine on trails. The bottom line is that the XR100R and CRF150F do what they are designed to do, and will bring many smiles to riders, perfectly safe (relative, of course) cruising along a trail.

DualSportr · Sep 26, 2001

Duane and I are both gimpy with bad knees, too.

Tell me it didn't happen on the track behind the house!!!

I wish we could go to the US Open - I'm sure it's gonna be a kick!

WoodsRider · Sep 27, 2001

Originally posted by stormer94
look at my profile, ME, I'm the target audience, kids 8-12 years old and a wife that dabbles and we use it for a pit bike at stock car races. I am the guy they targeted this toward, and I'm a bit disappointed.

I'm the guy that was looking at a $9000 BBR bike so my kid would have the right bike, safety first. I saw the CRF150F title, nearly wet my pants at the thought, saw the pictures and some specs and nearly cried. They are building these bikes for US, you and I. I think it's perfectly acceptable to be critical.

Whoa, settle down there stormer. They have targeted this bike towards the family. The younger ones who want to ride something that looks like a real MX bike and the adults who pay for it, fix it when it breaks and use it as a pit bike. Why on earth would you want to use a $9k BBR as a pit bike?

After reading some of your other posts, I understand your concern for safety. However if your 150 lb. son is too big to race an 80 MX'r, then he's too big to race a TTR125/CRF150. The key word being race. Vertically challenged or not, I've seen some fairly big kids (AJ not included... although he is vertically challenged :p) riding 80's very competitively.

stormer94 · Sep 27, 2001

Woodsrider,

I'm not tensed up :)

Just bummed at what could have been.

yz250-effer · Sep 28, 2001

How is that knee anyhow ? ?

Originally posted by firecracker22

But I will try. It would be nice to go ride again . . . after my knee feels better, of course . . .

Have you gotten it looked at yet? As far as the topic at hand goes - Honda is just trying to keep up with yamaha once again.

Just put your money where your mouth is and DON'T buy one if you don't like them. Alot of die-hard honda fanatics are waiting for the golden egg from Honda. It might happen, but don't count on it. Make them make it happen with simple economics. Which has already started with the 450F. Don't buy the 230F - I assure you they will come out with a 250 mx version very soon. I have a YZ250F and can't say the bike is absolutely perfect, or will turn you from a novice to an intermediate, but I will say it was pure marketing genius for yamaha to develop, and everyone else is playing catch-up. Honda is no longer NO. 1, if I have the latest sales info correct - and to all you xr owners out there - get a test ride on something else, have an open mind - if you still sleep with your xr- so be it. But air cooled is not the wave of the future. You can only go so high with compression on an air cooled motor. And higher compression means more HP. Trust me, I used to have an xr600 and a cR250. You don't have to exclusively buy what honda sells. Just my .02, sorry to rant but this the flame board.;)

firecracker22 · Sep 28, 2001

Re: How is that knee anyhow ? ?

Originally posted by yz250-effer
Have you gotten it looked at yet?

Yeah, but she didn't tell me much. I went to the orthopedic doc Monday and she said it might be a tear of the meniscus and it probably isn't the ACL. I will have to wait for an MRI until all the swelling goes down. It hurts less though, but it still aches after a long day, and I can put weight on it just fine but can't twist or pivot on it. We'll see.

yz250-effer · Sep 28, 2001

FC22

That is hopefully good news that it is probably not the ACL. There is still swelling? ouch. :eek:

WoodsRider · Sep 28, 2001

That is hopefully good news that it is probably not the ACL.

Actually a torn meniscus can be just as bad or worse. If the tear is large enough it will never heal due to the lack of blood vessels in the meniscus. Typically the OS will scope the knee and remove any loose pieces. However the knee will never be very stable. The meniscus cannot be replaced like an ACL.

When the MRI technician was looking at my knee she just shook her head and said "there's a lot that can go wrong with a knee." Then she mentioned something about forcing her boyfriend to sell his motorcycle. :eek:

IBWFO · Sep 28, 2001

I've torn both ACL's in my knees (thank god for insurance) and was always told that the ACL was the serious one.
Check out Bob's ACL board on the web. Very informative!:cool:

yz250-effer · Sep 28, 2001

Originally posted by WoodsRider

Actually a torn meniscus can be just as bad or worse. If the tear is large enough it will never heal due to the lack of blood vessels in the meniscus.

Wow, I did not know that. Those knees are scary business when they get messed up. ( I know first hand ) I had some of my meniscus removed ( not sure how much ) on the same knee as the severed acl. Now I can blame both problems on the un-stable knee, sad to say.

Anyhow take care of those knees , people. And buy the new hondas if you like them.:) over and out.

LWilson250 · Sep 28, 2001

Here is a photo depicting what XR100R’s do best. And NO, that is not me! This is my former friend Robert. He did everything to that XR, never changed the oil, and never cleaned the air filter and everything else you can think of. But still after all that, the engine still works, a true testimony to the reliability of Honda engines. Sure the rear wheel is missing half the spokes, but that’s why you don’t let a 200Lb person ride a XR100R.

Lee W.

motometal · Sep 28, 2001

Honda is still #1 in my book. Honda playing catch up? Depends how you look at it. If I want to play catch up on my CR250, I just open the throttle and the motor does the rest. If I am going to haul around the weight of a 250 cc bike, it better have the raw power of a (two stroke) 250 cc bike!!!

of course, as always, just my opinion...

yz250-effer · Sep 29, 2001

THey are definitely playing catch-up . . .

In relation to their racing 4 stroke development compared to Yamaha and KtM. Also in their updated playbikes ( 150F , 230F ). THey are not playing catch-up with the CR250, that is a given. In their defense, tho, it took them 4 years to answer the YZ400F while Suzuki and Kawasaki have yet to poke their head out from the rocks. THere is the DRZ400, but it is an enduro, not an MX machine.

Lwilson - that is a hilarious pic. I agree, XR's are ultra - reliable - I used to have a 97' 600. If you put a wig on the handlebars, and some pajama's on that xr, the caption of that pic would be, " me love you long time". It appears with the feet planted so firmly, and the weight of the rider - that the poor little xr is going nowhere.;)

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