zcookie49

Seven OUT!
Dec 21, 2000
860
0
This is directly from Hondas webpage.
.
CRF150F and CRF230F

Leave it to Honda to bring the excitement of four-stroke motocross to fun loving trail riders everywhere. Honda's 2003 CRF150F and CRF230F mark the introduction of a new series of Honda four-stroke trail bikes. Both machines combine tough, durable four-stroke engines with styling inspired by Honda's race-winning motocrossers to deliver endless grins-per-mile. As an added bonus, the CRF230F features electric starting. Both models will be available in Fall 2002
 

MoToMaNYz125

Member
Apr 2, 2001
66
0
Re: True??

i dont think honda is going to make the cr150f and cr230? thats weird i know they do plan on creating the cr250f to race with the 125cc class
 

firecracker22

Sponsoring Member
Oct 23, 2000
3,217
0
Go to hondamotorcycles.com home page, then click on the blue box in the center that says “the future of performance is here.” There are pictures in there but no specifications yet.
 

stormer94

~SPONSOR~
May 30, 2001
597
0
according to the video, they refer to the bike as 'recreational' and by the looks of it, I'd make it out to be a better xr100.

156cc
steel frame
front disc brake

engine looks like all the rest of the xr line :(

so much for a good quality racing 4 stroke for Jr.
 

stormer94

~SPONSOR~
May 30, 2001
597
0
I've been thinking about it. YUP, it was designed as a TTR killer.

I HOPE that it has another inch of travel and about 3-4 more horsepower, and they'll have it licked.

Then Yamaha will counter with a REAL racing 150 thumper! And so it will go, back and forth. :cool:
 

tstorms

Member
Aug 10, 2001
29
0
From the Honda website: "takes its cue from our CR450R."

Yeah, ok, it appears to be a new XR with "bold new graphics" and plastics. Will it take the cr450r cue hear in Cali. and be a red stickered bike and not sell* in the largest US market? If it is a green sicker eligible, you know it's going to be an overpriced playbike. The 230 could be going for that market of folks who can't decide between the XR200 and the XR250 and don't want lights (wink-wink). Seriously though, this could signal the end of the both the aforementioned bikes as it would be ludicrous to carry 5 playbikes within 150cc's of each other sounds like a KTM lineup (100, 130, 200, 230 and 250). Theorizing the 4 stroke line could be XR 75/80, crf130, crf230, xr 400, xr650 and crf450r.

Only if they made a stock XR 315, I'll take it.


* You should see all the dealers stuck with '01 DRZ 400's in the LA area.
 

DualSportr

Member
Aug 22, 2000
527
0
The 150 appears to be derivative of the SL125 (this motor is still being used in Japan), which was the predicessor to the XL185, then the XR200.

The 230 appears to be the same engine as the Japanese XR200 electric start they've been selling over there for a few years. I think they call it the SL200 (not absolutely sure on this one).

Although the engine design is nothing to write home about, the chassis appear to be a definite upgrade from what was available previously.
 

BenjaminPQ

Spammer
Jan 4, 2001
105
0
I'm not impressed at all. Down right disappointed actually.

Both Honda and Yamaha have established that they can make fine trail bikes, but they didn't need more of the same. They should have filled in the gaps (150cc and 250cc 4 stroke racers) before they tried to fix something that wasn't broke. :(
 

MARK IT

~SPONSOR~
Sep 5, 1999
357
0
I don't see anything new with the execption of the 450, and it's not that
new, (single over head cam?). They should have made a XRF 250 and 450
and they would have had somthing to talk about, Yamaha is by far the
four stroke leader with the YZF's,WRF's, R6 and R1. honda can't come up
with anything new till it's to late or so it seams to be, the KTM's look good
also.
 

HiG4s

~SPONSOR~
Mar 7, 2001
1,311
0
Originally posted by BenjaminPQ
I'm not impressed at all. Down right disappointed actually.

Both Honda and Yamaha have established that they can make fine trail bikes, but they didn't need more of the same. They should have filled in the gaps (150cc and 250cc 4 stroke racers) before they tried to fix something that wasn't broke. :(

First, AMA does not recognize a 4-stroke advantage in the youth classes, so to race the 85cc class a 4-stroke would have to be 85cc. And even if AMA or other organizations let 150 cc 4-strokes race youth, it will too little to late for me. I just bought my son a 2002 YZ85, and by 2004, when REAL mini 4-stroke racers MIGHT come out, he will be on a 125, or 250 4-stroke.

By the way, my son was really excited earlier this year when the rumors of a YZ150f were floating around, he really wanted a 4-stroke.
 

BenjaminPQ

Spammer
Jan 4, 2001
105
0
Originally posted by HiG4s


First, AMA does not recognize a 4-stroke advantage in the youth classes, so to race the 85cc class a 4-stroke would have to be 85cc.

When I wrote "4 stroke racers" I meant small 4 strokes with great power and handling. I wasn't referring to AMA racing particularly.

I know I'm not an engineer or anything but I would think Honda could put together something pretty quick. Using the CR80R frame and using technology from the 4 valve XR line or better yet the CRF450R. If BBR can do why can't Honda?
 

HiG4s

~SPONSOR~
Mar 7, 2001
1,311
0
Originally posted by BenjaminPQ


When I wrote "4 stroke racers" I meant small 4 strokes with great power and handling. I wasn't referring to AMA racing particularly.

I know I'm not an engineer or anything but I would think Honda could put together something pretty quick. Using the CR80R frame and using technology from the 4 valve XR line or better yet the CRF450R. If BBR can do why can't Honda?

There is nothing stopping any of them except the potenial market is not there. Kids aren't going to ask for a 150F racer if they can't race them. The fact the many kids riding 80 MX bikes don't race is beside the point. They at least want the illusion that they could enter a race and be the next RC. One of the big reasons for the 250 and 426f was the AMA rules which were designed to promote 4-stroke research. I'm not sure why AMA has not made a 4-stroke rule for youth, it seems like it would be a logical thing to do.
 

BenjaminPQ

Spammer
Jan 4, 2001
105
0
I see your point. I also see that you have a XR, one of the top selling lines of dirt bikes ever. Are they race bikes? No, but they sure could be updated!

Also, I was under the impression that you could race up to a 150cc 4 stroke in the 80cc class? I have seen TT-R's race with 80's.:think
 

stormer94

~SPONSOR~
May 30, 2001
597
0
BenjaminPQ,

You may have seen TTR's in with the 80's, but nobody is winning on them or finishing anybetter than bottom 2/3 with one.

Not to dis' the TTR, we have one, and had a first year rider attempt to compete with one, you really can't do it. The TTR has 9 horsepower, most 80's are pushing 20-22hp. The TTR has 6" of suspension front and 7 "rear. Most race 80's have 11" or so. The TTR weighs about 175, the 80cc race bikes popping in at about 140.

The TTR is a great bike... it is NOT a great race bike in the 80cc class. It is a bike that can be ridden in the 80cc class, but there is NO WAY that one could win, as much as I wish it were possible, we've seen it done, and most people that have been to the track see people try.

The TTR has half the horsepower, half the suspension, and is about 40 pounds heavier. Great bike to play on, lousy bike to race on...
 

DualSportr

Member
Aug 22, 2000
527
0
It is a bike that can be ridden in the 80cc class

Not in AMA sanctioned events.

We've been fighting this for years - and AMA has always turned a deaf ear to the "compare horsepower, not cc's" argument.

Until AMA becomes only a sanctioning agency, and not a money earning promoter, the short-sightedness of this group will continue to hurt our sport.
 

stormer94

~SPONSOR~
May 30, 2001
597
0
They've been letting them ride here. Are you REALLY gonna turn down a new kid on a TTR when you already know he's gonna get spanked? There's no logic to support NOT allowing it. Especially after you see one run.

Even BBR says the best you can hope to ever really get out of that engine is about 15 horsepower... you're still 25% short on horsepower, and half the suspension.

I wish the AMA would get that ironed out nationally.
 

snaggleXR4

Member
Aug 5, 2001
309
0
Hey,
I'm a huge XR fan, and I'm curious as to what will happen to the XR line in general. With the release of the CRF150/230 it appears the the traditional XR days are over. All the XR's will have to be changed to CRF's to avoid mass confusion. Strange, Honda is going after the TT-R's and the WRF's at the same time?

All I know is that I want woods/trail version of the CRF450, with the low end grunt that my old XR400 has. I want a thumper, not a 4-stroke with 2-stroke power delivery. What are your guesses on the future of the the XR400?

On a side note, after myself riding an 87 XR200 for years, the CRF230 looks to be a decent upgrade with the new frame, and front disc brake. The electric start will be nice, but would not be an issue for me. I wonder if the suspension travel and adjustability has been improved with the new 230.

Good luck, keep on thumpin'!
 

DualSportr

Member
Aug 22, 2000
527
0
Even BBR says the best you can hope to ever really get out of that engine is about 15 horsepower

The number is 20. Here's a breakdown, from the Powroll dyno.

Stock CR80 18 hp
Stock XR 100 8 hp
Stock TTR 125 10 hp
Powroll/BBR XR 150 (Smail's 1999 Langtown bike) 20 hp
Powroll/BBR TTR 150 (Smail's 2000 Langtown bike) 21 hp
Regular Powroll/BBR kitted TTR150 (bore kit, cam, pipe) 17-18 hp
Powroll/BBR kitted TTR 150 with porting and different ignition - 19-20 hp
Stock XR 250 (just for comparison!) 20 hp

This is using a hydraulic (load bearing) dyno, so the CR80 is pulled down in power (compared to a drum style dyno), whereas the four stroke does better because it generates torque more readily.

The TTR can be made to generate just as much hp as the CR (it just doesn't realize it as quickly). Unfortunately, without the CR chassis (or YZ) it's still got a major disadvantage.

Honda is actually doing a pretty cool thing with the new 150 and 230. They are upgrading two of their models (xr100 and xr200) which haven't been upgraded since their switch to monoshock in the early '80's!

Think about all the lady riders out there who, because of short stature, are unable to comfortably start and ride an XR200. The e-start will be a welcome change for them, and the disk brake, additional cc's and better suspension will be a godsend. This is what all the xr200 fans have been screaming about for years (well, the e-start was a surprise). I just hope the weight of the bike isn't in the TTR250 range, otherwise the XR200 will still be a better option in the tight stuff.

I'm just extrememly disappointed because I wanted a Honda version of the YZF 250 in that sweet aluminum chassis (I love that CR125 chassis!). From what I've heard through the grapevine, it may still be in the works. I'll wait one more year, then I'm gonna have to purchase a WR250 and get to work lowering it!
 

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