New type steering damper

mudpack · Mar 22, 2009

The 2009 CRF450F comes with the coolest little steering damper hidden behind the number plate. It's adjustable, very small, and does not affect handlebars. Plus, its about $200 cheaper than the other types that are popular.

I just got one and am in the process of putting it on my KDX200. It requires a small amount of welding on the steel frame, but other than that appears to be almost bolt-on; the triple clamps even have several unused threaded holes already in the correct places.
If anyone is interested, I'll take some pix as I'm putting it on and keep a list of part numbers and items needed, then I will post it up here.

fusion · Mar 22, 2009

That sounds pretty cool! you need to post pictures when your done.

mudpack · Mar 22, 2009

Okay, now who can tell me how to post pictures???

fusion · Mar 22, 2009

you can email them to me and i will post them for you. or go to www.photobucket.com and make an account then link the picture to this thread.

Tom68 · Mar 23, 2009

Great idea, thats one thing Honda has right and makes all the other options look stupid.

glad2ride · Mar 23, 2009

pictures, pictures, pictures!

mudpack · Mar 23, 2009

fusion said:
you can email them to me and i will post them for you.

PM'd ya' !

I have some pix of the mock-up. It looks like the KDX's headlight/number plate unit was made for this damper; it clears everything by about 3mm. Even the wiring/clutch cable do not interfere.
I will notch out the bottom on the plastic number plate to give it additional clearance at final assembly. I'm waiting on a threaded steel standoff to weld on the frame's steering neck (the one for the Honda is aluminum, you can see it in the pictures)

Here is the damper P/N:
53700-MEN-A31 Retail price: $240.19!
It has a 13-click adjustment. It has equal damping both ways unfortunately, which may or may not be a detriment....I'll let you know as soon as I ride it. (I have the Scotts w/ one-way damping on my other Kawasaki)

I'll post the pix as soon as fusion gets me his email address.

mudpack · Mar 23, 2009

Question for you:

The damper uses 7x1mm thread mounting bolts.
The threaded holes in both the KDX's aluminum triple clamps and the steel weld-on standoff are 6x1mm threads.

So, I have two options: Use 6mm mounting bolts that will bolt right into the standoff and the triple clamp, with bushings (I've already made the bushings) to fit the spherical bearings in the damper, ....or....drill and tap the 6x1mm threaded holes in both the triple clamp and standoff for 7x1mm threads and use the standard Honda 7mm mounting bolts.

I'm leaning toward using the 7mm bolts at this point.

Mud

Matt90GT · Mar 23, 2009

First off the first year of this was 2008 on the CRF 250 and 450 models. Called the HPSD

It is not like a scotts dampener. It does not do anything for the first 5-10* of angle. It only helps in cornering when the wheel is turned. That is how it is designed. You can read more on the Honda website.

Now racetech, factory connection and a few other places can revalve them. But with the angle it is mounted, you will still have the 5-10* before it kicks into play.

Also MX Bonx has a kit to mount it to any bike:

http://www.mxbonz.com/NS2.htm

mudpack · Mar 23, 2009

First, http://www.mxbonz.com/NS2.htm does not list kits to fit any bike...only some of the Honda CR and CRF's are listed.

Second, try this: http://powersports.honda.com/2009/crf450r/innovations.aspx?shortcut=HPSD

To say the unit does nothing for the first 5-10 degrees is incorrect. (?Did you make that up?)
It is progressive (the P in HPSD), meaning it does very little the first degree of turn, with progressively more damping the further you turn...it's linear (actually, it's a rising rate curve) from zero to max damping the further you turn from center. It doesn't "kick in" at a certain point.
Just the way I'd like my damper (not "dampener") to work.
To me, the price, the function, the way it mounts.... is perfect for the KDX200/220.

I'll let you know in the next few days.....

mudpack · Mar 25, 2009

Pictures sent to fusion yesterday morning for posting.

This place has a great price on the damper:
http://xtremeusa.com/fiche_section_...y=Motorcycles&make=Honda&year=2009&fveh=22936

Mud

mudpack · Mar 25, 2009

Matt90GT · Mar 26, 2009

mudpack said:
First, http://www.mxbonz.com/NS2.htm does not list kits to fit any bike...only some of the Honda CR and CRF's are listed.

Second, try this: http://powersports.honda.com/2009/crf450r/innovations.aspx?shortcut=HPSD

To say the unit does nothing for the first 5-10 degrees is incorrect. (?Did you make that up?)
It is progressive (the P in HPSD), meaning it does very little the first degree of turn, with progressively more damping the further you turn...it's linear (actually, it's a rising rate curve) from zero to max damping the further you turn from center. It doesn't "kick in" at a certain point.
Just the way I'd like my damper (not "dampener") to work.
To me, the price, the function, the way it mounts.... is perfect for the KDX200/220.

I'll let you know in the next few days.....

Education 101 for you MUDPACk:

Read page 14:

http://hrca.honda.com/Press/pdf/08CRF250-450R_PKit_lr.pdf

What do you see there? Let me paste it for you:

"As the name Progressive Steering Damper infers, the
damping action of the unit progresses over the range
of travel.<b> From straight-ahead mode to approximately
five degrees of movement in either direction
(which are very small changes from off-center), HPSD
creates minimal damping force, resulting in neutral
steering during straight-line running.</b> As handlebar
movement increases and the damper rod extends
farther, damping force increases smoothly to produce
very natural steering characteristics and feel."

WHy does it take at least the 5* of movement? Easy, becuase of how it is mounted. It is mounted vertical on the bike. It takes the 5-10* for it to start extending from full collapsed in the center vertical position. That is the limitation of the design.

Second the MX bonx kit while designed for the honda can be made to work on any bike. They use to have pics on kawis and suzukis posted there of the kit installed. Pretty simple really, install a tower in the steering stem, then drill and mount it to the lower clamp. Sounds pretty universal really. And it is.

Enjoy the education. If you want to see it in action, go to your local honda dealer and get the bike on a stand. You can feel the lack of resistance on center and 5-10* out like honda states. I have been playing with them since 07 when the 08 CRFs were released. But still like my 22mm clamps without the damper.

mudpack · Mar 26, 2009

Hmmm.... I went to the site you gave me, looked at page 14, and found only this: "New Honda Progressive Steering Damper (HPSD). Tested by Team Honda, this lightweight, compact steering damper improves cornering ability and reduces rider fatigue".
...nothing about "kicking in" at some point.

Page 15 had this, however: "HPSD features a compact damper attached to the lower triple clamp and the steering head to allow more aggressive steering characteristics and assist straight-line handling. Damping action smoothly progresses as handlebar deflection increases, which produces very natural steering characteristics and feel."

I still think you are making that "5 to 10 degrees" stuff up, because in actuality, it just isn't true.

(PS Turn in your teaching credentials, you're fired! :rotfl: )

Mud

IndyMX · Mar 26, 2009

mudpack said:
Hmmm.... I went to the site you gave me, looked at page 14, and found nothing about the damper.
Page 15 had this, however: "HPSD features a compact damper attached to the lower triple clamp and the steering head to allow more aggressive steering characteristics and assist straight-line handling. Damping action smoothly progresses as handlebar deflection increases, which produces very natural steering characteristics and feel."

I still think you are making that "5 to 10 degrees" stuff up... ;)

(PS Turn in your teaching credentials, you're fired! :rotfl: )

Mud

I found it.. it's actually on page 15.. right hand column 2nd paragraph. He's not making it up.

mudpack · Mar 26, 2009

I just looked at page 15 for the fourth or fifth time: nothing about 5 degrees. I quoted that paragraph in its entirety (post #14).
Here's where I'm looking: http://hrca.honda.com/Press/pdf/08CRF250-450R_PKit_lr.pdf
Is it not the same place?? Indy, can you copy and paste the paragraph you are referring to?
Anyone else find mention of 5 or 10 degrees....I sure can't!!???

Mud

Matt90GT · Mar 26, 2009

I cut and pasted the paragraph for you. YOu need to scroll to the right or decrease the size of your PDF viewing area.

5* on either side of center = 10*

Simple math. Again, the design limitation of the unit.

IndyMX · Mar 26, 2009

Matt quoted the paragraph above...

Here's the paragraph you can't seem to find...

It's highlighted in yellow..

note, it's exactly what matt quoted..

BAD STUDENT!

mudpack · Mar 26, 2009

Interesting, I finally found that paragraph on page 9 of the site. :cool: Thanks, Indy.

The unit's design is progessive: which means damping starting at zero and gradually increasing.
"...You will still have the 5-10* before it kicks into play." is not the same as "from straight ahead to approximately five degrees in either direction, HPSD creates minimal damping".
Five degrees of turn is not 5-10 degrees of turn, and it doesn't "kick in". (tell me the dude wasn't making things up)

So, what is the point of this? After all is said and done, the unit is still a perfect match for the KDX200/220; it will work on the KDX just as it was designed to work on the CRF.

I guess I'll have to see how photobucket works....

Matt90GT · Mar 26, 2009

Yeah and you also thought 09 was the first year of this unit.

If you are 5* to the right and turn the bars to 5* to the left, that is 10* of movement that the dampner does NOTHING. Because of the vertical mount and the pivot of the hiem joint type of mounting points, the rod does NOT move. Once you get it turned past that point the rod starts moving in the body and you get dampnening. Go to your local honda dealer and see it in person! Please do

It is hard to admit you are wrong sometimes. But man up

fusion · Mar 26, 2009

Here's Mudpacks pictures, I have been so busy with school and work this week I didn't have time till today.

mudpack · Mar 27, 2009

Thanks, fusion!
The metric standoff arrived last night, so tonight I'll weld it on the steering neck, paint it, then re-assemble the whole thing and the project will be completed.
I'll take more pictures as I step through the process.

Mud

mudpack · Mar 28, 2009

Trying to move final photos from Photobucket to the forum... :bang:

Mud

mudpack · Mar 29, 2009

Ready to weld the standoff onto the steering neck, shows the aluminum fixture to hold the standoff in location and square:

Welding completed, weld area painted, damper bolted on, shows trimmed lower HL bracket:

Looking up under the headlight/number plate, shows the trimming necessary on the plastic to clear the damper body:

Can't really test its effectiveness until the snow melts!! :(

Mud

mudpack · Mar 29, 2009

Here's the rest of the shots:

View from front:

From side showing damper-to-reflector clearance, perfect:

Shows the closest the damper comes to touching anything, about 2mm at full left turn. I'll move the upper mount upward another 2mm on the next install:

New type steering damper

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