Oil & Spooge Gorr I'm gonna get ya!

[MikeeeP]

Okay here is the deal - Eric, after all these years, we've never met. I give up, I'm gonna sit on ya when we meet! LOL

Rich, you're the fuel guru, clue me in - I've tried everything and give up.

First, I'm at about 1500' altitude (approx).

Now, it just dropped down a bit cooler into the high 40s low 50s during the day.

144cc KTM 1999 vintage with an FMF pipe and silencer & rad valve.

I'm not even going to mention the jetting - we'll hope someone else out there comes up with some numbers.

This bike has slobbered from the pipe/silencer junction forever and a day.

Just had the head off in my hand not 10 minutes ago. Nice chocolate brown (light chocolate) with a nice looking plug. No evidence of spooge anywhere, not even in the powervalve area(s).

Crank it up, it's spit funk out of the junction, but it's not engine oil, the smell is never there, and the tranny oil is always fine. The bike runs really well, it pulls strong from just above idle to a juicy top end -but- it's always dripping/dribbling oil - also from the end of the silencer.

Fuel normally is 93 octane Amoco as there is no race fuel in this area (guys I'm in the sticks! 1 stop light deer walking around in the street etc...). I've used everything from Super M, 927, Silkolene, MC1 etc... all spooge.

Any suggestions? As mentioned the bike runs really well, just is a drippy mess!

I'm not going to mention mixing ratios, jetting etc, waiting for some comments and suggestions instead.

Peace crew and thanks.
Mike

 

[Rich Rohrich]

Originally posted by MikeeeP
Fuel normally is 93 octane Amoco

Mikeee - If we assume jetting is correct on all circuits and all the oils tried spooged at more or less the same level , then I would think the distillation curve of the pump fuel is the issue. The end point temperature of the fuel you are using(and most pump premiums) is too high for the conditions encountered in your engine so it lets raw fuel pass out into the exhaust.

Here's some distillation curve numbers to highlight the specifics

• 10% pump 158 race 154
• 50% pump 250 race 210
• 90% pump 374 race 225
• 99% pump 437 race 250

As you can see, the amount of heat necessary to vaporize all of the race fuel will only vaporize 1/2 of the pump fuel. The race fuel numbers listed are pretty typical of what you'll see, and the pump numbers are fairly typical of US summer pump fuel. The race fuel numbers more closely match the temperature profile of an average MX engine.
Remember if the fuel won't vaporize it won't burn, and it ends up making it's way into the expansion chamber as a liquid. Suddenly you're the mayor of SPOOGE CITY even with perfect jetting. Automotive engines have long HOT intake runners and slow turning engines so their is plenty of time and heat to vaporize these high temp heavy ends in pump fuel. There isn't enough time or heat to do it effectively in the average MX race engine.

You might find some oils that will help a bit like Mobil MX2T, but in the end it's just a band-aid on the REAL problem. If you have to run pump fuel I'd stock up on Simple Green :thumb:

 

[MikeT]

I don't know what you're mixing it at (ratio wise) but I would stay in the 26-32:1 range. Don't put any less oil in it than that.

 

[biglou]

Mikeee-I know this isn't the technical info you are looking for, but as far as the spooging at the pipe-silencer junction, I run two zip-ties, one in each groove, on the rubber boot that covers that junction.  Keeps the motor and the shock spring clean and sends it all out the back, which is a problem I'm working on myself.  Good luck.

 

[Chief]

Mikee,

I can confirm what rich said, in that I use mx2t and amoco gas (93). The temps here in Pa. have been similar, and the spooge is back now that the temps are down. I stay on the jetting and try to adjust for temps, My bike as most just runs better when temps cool down. I had no spooge when it was 80 degrees out there.

I pay more attention to how the bike runs than how much spooge I produce, I'm sure farting around in the woods all day doesn't help and I've been doing a lot of that. I mix at 32:1 but am considering mixing at 40:1 to get a cleaner burn at these temps. I will probably have to jet a bit leaner.

Hope This Helps.

Joe Chief

 

[MikeS]

"If you have to run pump fuel I'd stock up on Simple Green" Quote by Rich

:) cool advice

as mentioned if piston color and plug reading is good. Sound like you tried the good oils. Fuel is the key. Try a can of good race fuel to see if you get a change. Proper jetting assumed. (make sure your low speed ciruits are jeeted sharp as you can be getting build up from there)

 

[gwcrim]

...as far as the spooging at the pipe-silencer junction, I run two zip-ties, one in each groove, on the rubber boot that covers that junction.

I do that too. I also found that the rubber boot was installed backwards by who ever installed it. Problem is riding opportunities are hard to come by when it gets dark at 6 PM. So I haven't yet had a chance to try it out.

 

[MikeeeP]

>>>Suddenly you're the mayor of SPOOGE CITY even with perfect jetting.

Hahaha, just call me Mayor McCheese then - or is that Mayor McPs.

Hey, I happened to have some Motul 600 in the shop which is a synthetic. I normally sell this to the guys with PWs because it doesn't carbon as badly in the exhausts - anyhow, tried it yesterday with the 93 octane, and talked to Eric about the Maxima Hi Test --- put about 3oz per gallon of Hi Test in there and though I got spooge pretty quickly (even with a repacked silence) I think some of it might be residue left over from the pipe... we'll see on Sunday...

BTW - I've been running a high compression base gasket that KTM gave me at the races as I had to change a top end there once. Well, just installed the thicker lower compression gasket and have to say - I should have been running this gasket a LONG time ago! I can't notice too much drop in the bottom and mid, but man the top increased so dramatically with the lower compression that it is astonishing. My poor neighbors, I decided to play hillbilly biker at my shop last night and do power wheelies back and forth at 10pm! The bike is impressive - the neighbors are friends so they were probably shaking their heads and laughing or I'd never have done that.

Hey what are the odds, moved 12 hours from home (Cape Canaveral to N.Georgia) the guy that owns the building next to my shop - used to ride bicycles with him when I was a little kid - I'm talking 4-5-6 years old. Totally remember him - we both almost died laughing when he came over to introduce himself when we moved into the shop! Small world huh.

Thanks guys. I'm gonna check this thing Sunday and I might even drain the tank and try the MX2T if it's still spooging bad.

Sign me - Mayor McSpooge

 

[EricGorr]

Mikeee and I talked on the phone the other day about this problem and we clunked our heads together and speculated on the same thing Rich ellaborated on.
Besides Mikeee you should be looking forward when you're doing power wheelies, not at the silencer!

 

[MikeeeP]

LOL - actually I just called Atlanta (2.5 hours away) and might become a dealer for one of the fuel companies. That would have cured the whole problem.

BTW, I was just joking around in the title of this about "Gorr I'm gonna get ya!" This bike has always run great, but just doesn't dig non-race fuel. I'm Eric's proverbial "Thorn in his side" as I call him just to harrass (sp?) about 5 times per week on a good week haha.

Peace.
Mikeee P

 

[bwalker]

Mikee, Another thing to consider is KTM has ahistory of putting needles that make the bike rub way rich in the closed-1/2 throttle range. I replaced my old KTM 200's stock needle with what I believe a r1369n from a late model cr 125 and it fixed the spooge problem completly. This was with mobil mx2t at 32:1.

 

[bedell99]

Hey Mikeeep I have been reading your column for years. Nice to have you on board. I read this column last week and have the same problem with my Honda. Jetting is in the ball park for this altitude. Nice tan plug, but still spit goop out of the junction. Was using Amoco 91 with 10%ethanol. Tried Sunoco GT 100 octane this weekend on a hunch for what Rich said in this column. BIke ran so good on Saturday. Mixed it with Honda HP2 at 40:1. No goop at all. Not one drop. I love learning about new things. Thank you Rich, Eric and our new member MIKEEEP for your great info on the moto world.

 

[MikeeeP]

Hello Bedell, nice to see your post. Actually I'm just so busy I never post here. I see by my note(s) beside my name that I've actually been a member since late 1999! Who'da thunk it?!!!

Hope you like the column. I've always had fun out here and some of my friends litererally are due to the net, such as Eric G etc...

Peace.
Mikeee P