Okay lets clear this up please
- Thread starter Tennessee Thumper
- Start date
- Jun 15, 2001
- 2,552
- 0
This is NOT an ass kiss to Rich (I'll probably live to harass him another day), but you'll notice that what sets him off is dispensation of false/particularly "obscenely" false information. Here's a hint: ITT tech folks should NOT argue with an engineer! (no offense ITT guys and gals, it's just that if you went to 4 years of undergrad and several years post-doc you'd know what I'm talking about).
I'm not flaming anybody for being undereducated, either. It's just a simple matter of knowing your limits. For some reason, in society today, everyone thinks they know everything. Trust me, most are just scratching the surface. Why do I know? Well, I've got a degree in Chemistry, an MD (which doesn't matter) and years of V8 building theory--and I DON'T argue with Rich. (ok, once, but he might be right--we'll see :) )
If Rich trained at MIT and there was another on this board from the School of Mines or Cal Poly--THEY might be an appropriate competitor. MAYBE--given Rich's obvious density of practical experience.
Smile, ask questions & listen. And I'm sure this is going to spawn hatred, discontent and multiple flames "because this board is for discussion...blaah,blaah), but these are my words of wisdom. Take it or leave it. You don't even see Eric Gorr coming on here and arguing with him.
And by the way--volumetric air flow and fuel metering are as inseparable as a brother and sister in the Ozarks (ok, here come the flames...). As he said, fuel "flow" would be damn near impossible to measure in this arrangement since it transitions from a liquid to "droplets"/air-fuel mix during the process of metering.
By the way--anyone--I've looked over my Keihen briefly, during jetting. It doesn't appear that there are any significant "accessory" venturis/boosters. Is motor vacuum enough?
I'm not flaming anybody for being undereducated, either. It's just a simple matter of knowing your limits. For some reason, in society today, everyone thinks they know everything. Trust me, most are just scratching the surface. Why do I know? Well, I've got a degree in Chemistry, an MD (which doesn't matter) and years of V8 building theory--and I DON'T argue with Rich. (ok, once, but he might be right--we'll see :) )
If Rich trained at MIT and there was another on this board from the School of Mines or Cal Poly--THEY might be an appropriate competitor. MAYBE--given Rich's obvious density of practical experience.
Smile, ask questions & listen. And I'm sure this is going to spawn hatred, discontent and multiple flames "because this board is for discussion...blaah,blaah), but these are my words of wisdom. Take it or leave it. You don't even see Eric Gorr coming on here and arguing with him.
And by the way--volumetric air flow and fuel metering are as inseparable as a brother and sister in the Ozarks (ok, here come the flames...). As he said, fuel "flow" would be damn near impossible to measure in this arrangement since it transitions from a liquid to "droplets"/air-fuel mix during the process of metering.
By the way--anyone--I've looked over my Keihen briefly, during jetting. It doesn't appear that there are any significant "accessory" venturis/boosters. Is motor vacuum enough?
Joshman211 - you still here?
I think your confusion stems mostly from the two different meanings of ratios. There is the gasoline to oil ratio and there is the air to fuel(mixture of oil and gas) ratio.
What they are saying is that all other things being equal the gas/oil ratio will have a small effect on the air/fuel ratio.
I would suggest that you somehow pick a gas/oil ratio that you are comfortable with (maybe the bike manufacturer's recommendation) and then adjust the air/fuel ratio with jetting to reduce the spoonge and get the performance you want. I believe plug fouling, excessive spoonge, and performance problems are air/fuel ratio problems.
I think your confusion stems mostly from the two different meanings of ratios. There is the gasoline to oil ratio and there is the air to fuel(mixture of oil and gas) ratio.
What they are saying is that all other things being equal the gas/oil ratio will have a small effect on the air/fuel ratio.
I would suggest that you somehow pick a gas/oil ratio that you are comfortable with (maybe the bike manufacturer's recommendation) and then adjust the air/fuel ratio with jetting to reduce the spoonge and get the performance you want. I believe plug fouling, excessive spoonge, and performance problems are air/fuel ratio problems.
100% Mik.
quote:
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Originally posted by Rich Rohrich
Chances are pretty good that the REAL Mikuni jets will prove to be more consistent across the board.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Generics are OFF!
Thanks for seconding that. I was kinda suspicious to start. Just eyeballing a handfull I became suspicious.:think
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Rich Rohrich
Chances are pretty good that the REAL Mikuni jets will prove to be more consistent across the board.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Generics are OFF!
Thanks for seconding that. I was kinda suspicious to start. Just eyeballing a handfull I became suspicious.:think
Nephon,
While I totally respect education, and wish more of my neighbors/friends/co-workers and myself for that matter had the opportuninty for a higher level of it, it's all relative...
I have seen some "wizards" who dropped out of high school, and some real dumb as#$es who had degrees covering the walls. Book vs. street smarts, and everyone has their own area of expertise.
Rich is a great part of this forum, but please don't give us that "children should be seen not heard"/more educated than thou/"how dare you challenge the great wizard behind the curtain" routine!
Part of the fun, and part of learning, is challenging people like Rich, and guess what? He isn't ALWAYS right! (usually, but not always!)
I am fairly certain that even in Rich's main areas of interest, such as fuel, on occasion someone will ask a question or challenge him, prompting him to do a bit of research or re-think a theory. This challenging of his knowledge helps him grow along with all of us who read the posts.
By the way, you totally lose me when you descibe difficulty in measuring fuel flow due to change in state (liquid to vapor, etc)...who cares what happens after it flows thru the jet? How about just measuring how much flows thru the jet from the input side?
Actually, why do we even need to bother trying to suck the fuel thru the jet? Let's use compressed air and blow it thru! This would be easier and safer, I think.
Anyway, back to earth, I enjoy reading the posts by nepron and rich, don't take me the wrong way. Keep up the great posts!
While I totally respect education, and wish more of my neighbors/friends/co-workers and myself for that matter had the opportuninty for a higher level of it, it's all relative...
I have seen some "wizards" who dropped out of high school, and some real dumb as#$es who had degrees covering the walls. Book vs. street smarts, and everyone has their own area of expertise.
Rich is a great part of this forum, but please don't give us that "children should be seen not heard"/more educated than thou/"how dare you challenge the great wizard behind the curtain" routine!
Part of the fun, and part of learning, is challenging people like Rich, and guess what? He isn't ALWAYS right! (usually, but not always!)
I am fairly certain that even in Rich's main areas of interest, such as fuel, on occasion someone will ask a question or challenge him, prompting him to do a bit of research or re-think a theory. This challenging of his knowledge helps him grow along with all of us who read the posts.
By the way, you totally lose me when you descibe difficulty in measuring fuel flow due to change in state (liquid to vapor, etc)...who cares what happens after it flows thru the jet? How about just measuring how much flows thru the jet from the input side?
Actually, why do we even need to bother trying to suck the fuel thru the jet? Let's use compressed air and blow it thru! This would be easier and safer, I think.
Anyway, back to earth, I enjoy reading the posts by nepron and rich, don't take me the wrong way. Keep up the great posts!
David Trustrum
~SPONSOR~
- Jan 25, 2001
- 1,396
- 0
AAARRGH! I like so do not want to get dragged into this but only a few posts ago I am still seeing confusion.
No one is going to take any notice but:
There is STILL confusion over oil to gas ratio & gas to air ratio.
Please choose an oil ratio & stick with it. Lots will never hurt. (oh don’t start me!).
Then decide on your jetting. Separate the issues!!!
Spooge is created by rich jetting where some unburnt gas is expelled due to incomplete combustion, because it is too rich –there ain’t enough air in there to burn all that gas that was sucked in. In this unburnt gas is the same oil that you mixed with it when it lived in your gas tank.
sigh. ok I'm done.
PS the dude who said “Rich your a knob” that should have been “you’re a knob” the apostrophe goes where the missing letter should be. Except I have never noticed any grammatical errors in his posts & the fact he bothers to write such detailed answers should only be respected, not dissed.
No one is going to take any notice but:
There is STILL confusion over oil to gas ratio & gas to air ratio.
Please choose an oil ratio & stick with it. Lots will never hurt. (oh don’t start me!).
Then decide on your jetting. Separate the issues!!!
Spooge is created by rich jetting where some unburnt gas is expelled due to incomplete combustion, because it is too rich –there ain’t enough air in there to burn all that gas that was sucked in. In this unburnt gas is the same oil that you mixed with it when it lived in your gas tank.
sigh. ok I'm done.
PS the dude who said “Rich your a knob” that should have been “you’re a knob” the apostrophe goes where the missing letter should be. Except I have never noticed any grammatical errors in his posts & the fact he bothers to write such detailed answers should only be respected, not dissed.
David Trustrum
~SPONSOR~
- Jan 25, 2001
- 1,396
- 0
Hey I hadn't progressed onto the 2nd page when I posted & notice FLBob had already said "the good oil"
Must remember to check if there is a 2nd page. Good on ya mate.
Must remember to check if there is a 2nd page. Good on ya mate.
