overheating

[red]

I was browsing the forum and found Luv2Ride had a similar problem to mine yet couldn't determine how he resolved this. I have a 2001 kdx220 that overheats and loses coolant in the radiator during technical riding conditions in cool weather. Back at the bike shop all cooling system checks were performed and passed flawlessly. I tore the top end off and inspected the system for blockage and didn't notice any problems. Circulation appears to be good. It was recommended that I replace the Devol rad guards with the stock ones and try silkolene with water wetter to see if that helps. I've done so and have yet to try this out but I'm still pretty puzzled.
My riding partner has a 2000 kdx200 with the Devol guards and a 50/50 mix. He's never had this problem in the same terrain. In one day of riding with him I had to top off the radiator 3 times.
I noticed that Luv2Ride had the same bike as mine so that made me ponder whether this is a trait of this model or what??? I'm getting to my wits end here. Please help.
Just revving the bike in the driveway and setting the idle high on a cool day with the radiator fully exposed will cause the reservoir to percolate and fill after 5-10 minutes eventually draining coolant (silkolene/water wetter) out the vent tube. I figure this might be normal due to no air flow through the system but could I be wrong?
If it helps, here's what's on the bike:
I'm running a 42 pilot, 1173 needle in 2nd from top and a 150 main below 1000ft, 50-60 degree temp, fairly humid. FMF torque pipe, turbinecore 2, and boyesen reeds are on the bike as well. The plug looks slightly on the rich side.
It's a rainy day in mudville.

 

[Luv2Ride]

red:

I sure know how frustrating this can be. Here is what I did, should help you too even though you are in a different climate. I found that by removing the Devol guards and replacing the factory plastic guards (they provide the best velocity of air across the radiators) worked well along with the mixture of coolant that I found worked best for me. I ended up using half a bottle of water wetter mixed with distilled water. I also found another product offered by either prestone or penske and I think it is called coolant conditioner. This stuff cost about half of what water wetter does and it works just as well if not better - I used the same mixture as with the water wetter. The key to the cooling systems on these bikes is finding what mixture works best at your climate and also making certain that there is no air in the system. You can bleed the air from the system by loosening the screw on the top of the cylinder head until coolant comes out consistently then re-tighten the screw (not too tight). The bike should not be running when you do this. I also tap on all the hoses to be sure there is no air stuck inside of them, when the screw is loose - of course.

Don't forget that when the temperature is low you should use anti-freeze in the mixture because water wetter and the coolant conditioner that I mentioned only offer anti-corrosive and lubricating properties and will not protect you from freezing temperatures.

Good luck and I hope that this helps.

Aloha,

Scot

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'01 KDX220r
Ride it Hard and Fast!

 

[Luv2Ride]

I almost forgot to ask what premix oil you are using and at what ratio. I was told by Jeff Fredette that if the oil (usually synthetic) supports a ratio of 40:1 or 50:1 this will aid in the excessive heating due to gas being able to dissipate heat better than oil. Also I personally believe that friction is reduced by a synthetic premix as well.

------------------
'01 KDX220r
Ride it Hard and Fast!

 

[red]

Scot-
Thanks for the speedy reply. I'll try it out with the cooling mixture I've got and try a different pre-mix. I'm running the factory spec 32:1 with a synthetic. Did you have to re-jet when you increased your fuel ratio?
Steve

 

[Luv2Ride]

red:

Being at sea level here in Hawaii, no I never had to rejet. Believe it or not I have been very lucky with that. I thought that it would be a nightmare to get dialed in but the plug had always read mocha brown since I purchased the bike new. The only thing that I had to do when I changed the ratio was adjust my air mixture screw about 3/8-1/2 turn to allow more air. After every ride I check the plug and it still reads fine. I am using Bel Ray H1R synthetic running anywhere from 44:1 to 50:1 depending on how I feel when I pour the oil into my little measuring device. Hahaha. One thing about this oil though, it is gummy. I rebuilt my top end about 4-6 weeks after buying the bike because of the 220 piston being known to self destruct and while I was in there I cleaned everything up real well and I was shocked at how much carbon the power valves had accumulated. This is fine by me, I rather take the bike apart every now and then to remove carbon and possibly replace the rings then have to possibly replace the piston and rings and maybe even hone the cylinder every year. Just my thoughts is all.

By the way, have you considered swapping the factory piston for the Wiseco yet? I would do it if I were you. Just talk with Jeff Fredette and he will hook you up with the piston kit (includes piston, rings, pin and circlips) and required gaskets. Jeff is a great guy, if you have any questions or concerns just ask him and he will be more than happy to help out. I noticed that my bike revs a little quicker, is snappier and has a little meaner sound (idle particularly) now that I have the Wiseco. I am also riding with a peace of mind now that I don't have to worry about being a statistic.

I hope this helps.

Aloha

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'01 KDX220r
Ride it Hard and Fast!

 

[Ede]

One possible reason when your bike gets to hot is a spark-plug which is too hot.

I don’t know if this is the real problem but try to use a cooler spark plug (higher number) and the bike should be cooler.


------------------
Ede
KDX200SR (94)

 

[Sage]

I have the same problem w/ my 99 220. if I fill the rad to the top it spits out the first 3/4 to 1" of water and then settles, I just let it settle and don't have a problem anymore. the bike dosent overheat it just dosent like that 3/4 to 1" of water at the top. Maybe it needs room to expand? I don't use the overflow bottle and after it takes it set it stays there till the next time I change it or pull the top end or ????

------------------
Sage Wilkinson, KDX Link 1

 

[skagracer]

hi I have a 2003 kdx 220 just bought it got a couple of rides on it and have the same problem with over heating lossing coolant etc . only happens on tight tree runs and hard pulls moving slow so lack of air going thru rads coolant mixs in 50/50 i,m on moyul sin 50/1 getting good at 142 we ride in the rockys mostly tight trees so this problem for me has,t to be fixed any one got more help reply thks

 

[Braahp]

I have a 01 200 that overheated just about every time I rode. I tried everything to no avail. Water Wetter.........Engine Ice............a 20/80 mix antifreeze......all still overheated. I finally found the solution. Get a product called Evans NPG+. http://www.evanscooling.com/main27.htm Replaces coolant mix altogether. I have NEVER overheated since.

 

[Robcolo]

Listen to what Braahp just said. You have 3 choices to avoid constant overheating with the 220s. Don't ride the bike, Buy larger radiators [about $400] or install the Evans NPG+. Follow their directions exactly & get every last drop of water out of your cooling system before installing the NPG. Since it expands more than does water, only put about 1 oz of it into the coolant overflow tank before you ride. If you ride a stock 220 at very low altitude and where there's lots of humidity to suck the heat out of your radiators, you may get by with some of the other products, but bring that bike up to Utah or the rockies with our thin dry air, it's guaranteed to boil. For some reason the 200s don't overheat and even Kawasaki can't tell us why --guess the cooling system just can't handle the extra 10% displacement --similar to KTMs 250 -300-380 engines. Same bottom ends, different cylinders & the 380s boil like crazy.

 

[skipro3]

I'm also an Evans NPG+ user and it works fine in my 220 as well. Since this product REQUIRES that all water be removed from your system, here is what I did: disconnect the hose at the water pump. Remove the radiator cap. Connect the wet / dry shop vac to the water pump and hose. Suck that baby dry and then let the vac run a bit for the air to finish drying it out. It took a couple of rides to burp all the air out of the system, but now I never vent fluid and that's with the overflow can removed too.

 

[bcVulcan]

My 220 started overheating today. It's never done that before. Last week, a coolant hose came loose and it got really hot before I realized I had a problem. Could I have done any damage that is causing it to overheat now? I have no leakes. It just perculates into the resevoir. The third time it did it today, (in very tight and slow conditions), the radiator was about3/4" low.

 

[BRYDEN1]

If you have a 220 and you ride slow technical sections, stop wasting your time and get the evans npg+. Many people on this forum have have solved their problems using it. I went on one ride with outrgus and I boiled my bike three times. He used evans and never boiled, I didn't and my bike smelled all day long. After putting it in I haven't had a problem since. After a long slow climb that I used to overheat on, I can still hold onto the hoses for 3-5 seconds. One added bonus is that you can run your cooling system at a lower pressure. Last ride out a big sharp rock jumped out and smacked my waterpump cover hard enough to shift the cover and break the upper dowel out of the case. I managed to slow the leak to a trickle under pressure. With the cap half off it slowed to an occasional drip. I rode the 30-40 km back to the truck low on coolant with no problems. Evans isn't cheap but I value my riding time way more than the price of a Gallon. :cool:

 

[bcVulcan]

That's about what I've decided. I was just wondering what caused it to do this all of a sudden.

 

[fundgh]

My 01 220 overheating too!

I started a new thread about overheating, but finally found this one! I overheated my 220 on its first ride last weekend, and it was on a slow technical long uphill. This thread tells me this is not uncommon. I have not switched coolant yet, but will. Do I have to order Evans, or is it sold at MC shops? Should I remove the Devol Guards, or take a Dremmel to them?

 

[BRYDEN1]

Leave the guards alone. Put in the EVANS.

 

[outrgus]

I have been praising the evans coolant for many years now :blah: , work great, little to no pressure in your system, and NO RUST, i also think by using the evans coolant my top end last longer :nod: . Just buy some and your heating problems will no longer be a problem.

 

[TriniG]

There is another solution to overheating. I installed on my 220 two computer fans wired into my high beam light and attached to my left side radiators (no room on the right side unless I relocate the coolant overflow container). Choose the highest amperage fan you can get in the 4 inch size. The higher the amps the faster the spin of the fan. This has reduced the frequency off boil overs. low speed difficult riding. Still allows airflow over the radiator.

 

[Tom Cox]

My 01 200 has never been a problem, but my 04 220 always boiled over until I used Evans NPG+. They also sell a PREP product to help get all the water out of your cooling system. This is a waterless cooling product. Zip Ty Racing also sells a waterless coolant produced by Evans. The Zip Ty product may be a little cheaper because it comes in onehalf gallon, where the Evans product is a gallon. Since this is a waterless product and if you lose your coolant out on the trail, you can't (shouldn't) put water into the cooling system. If you read up on the Evans product it will tell you why.

 

[Mr.Green]

Do the guys from Calgary know where I can get some Evan's cooling?

 

[Canadian Dave]

red,

Over heating is often the result of a lean condition. The incoming charge of fuel draws heat from the piston, not enough fuel therefore = high piston/engine temps. Given the age of your bike its likely safe to rule out a mechanical problem causing an air leak which could result in a lean condition so lets look at your jetting. Let’s start with our fuel. Changing the pre-mix ratio from 30:1 to 40:1, for example, increases the amount of fuel thus richening the mixture reducing heat. Given you are running a synthetic oil I would have a look at the oil manufactures recommendations for an indication of what ratio it was intended to support. Personally I run 42:1 with good results. Once you decide on a ratio try fine tuning your jetting. Boyesen reeds will make your engine run leaner on the bottom and richer on the top therefore from the jetting you have indicated I would start by richening your pilot circuit. Richen your airscrew (turn it in) and see if that helps. I’m guessing you’ll find it works best at around .75 turns out. If you are still not happy with the results try changing the pilot jet from a 42 to a 45 and play with your airscrew again this time you’ll likely need to lean the pilot screw/ turn it out. Rather than looking at your plug to check your jetting at lower throttle setting (the pilot jet has the greatest affect at lower throttle setting) go by feel. Cylinder scavenging is poor at lower rpms ( I’m assuming you are running at lower rpms in technical conditions were you are overheating) so a plug reading isn’t very useful when file tuning here.

David

 

[BRYDEN1]

There is a guy just outside of Edmonton that is a Evans dealer.http://eee.evanscooling.com/html/dealer1.htm
Look under the canadian dealers.

 

[Mr.Green]

Thankyou, I tried to send a personal message to you to ask where I could buy some, but it said I didn't have sufficient privilages.Thanks again.

 

[Old Man Time]

I took my 05 220 out on a very Technical slow steep ride last Saturday. My jetting was not right and I had no low end at all. Not a good thing in steep slow areas. I had to rev the bike all the time to get the power band so I had enough power to climb. Needless to say all this reving and slipping the clutch heated the oil up which heated the coolant up and I ended up over heating and spewing out quite a bit of coolant. With that kind of clutch abuse any bike would have over heated.

After reading this thread I hope I don't run into the same problems you have. It seems the only way I have been able to give my bike some bottom end pull is to lean the slow jet circuit. I am already down to #42 Slow Jet with the needle on the #1 clip and a #145 main. And it acts like it would do better with a #40 slow jet, it still has a hesitation down low. Airbox lid removed, Boyseen power reeds and FMF torque desert pipe. The bike still hesitates a little down low but nothing like it did when I was rich in the idle circuit. Then it simply did not have any low end nada (not an exageration).

I run a 40:1 mix (sometimes 50:1 mc1). The bike never overheats when I am abusing it in the desert. I hope I was right about clutch abuse causing it to over heat in the moutains. I don't like the idea of evans simply because if you lose it on the trail due to a broken hose or whatever, even if you fix the problem your not to mix it with water. I guess you can flush your system and then put water in it while on the trail.

But I still may become an Evans fan if I find in the future my bike does overheat. Also does not Evans mask a possibly more serious problem? When a bike overheats its telling you something ain't right. Evens does not boil over because it must reach a much higher temp to boil in the first place. Your bike may be running hotter than it should and you would never know. At least that is one arguement I have read against it. I don't have a firm conviction on this due to the fact that I have not tried it or investigated it enough to know what is true. Sounds like those who have tried it are convinced.

 

[Green Hornet]

Posted by OLD MAN TIME:

After reading this thread I hope I don't run into the same problems you have. It seems the only way I have been able to give my bike some bottom end pull is to lean the slow jet circuit. I am already down to #42 Slow Jet with the needle on the #1 clip and a #145 main. And it acts like it would do better with a #40 slow jet, it still has a hesitation down low. Airbox lid removed, Boyseen power reeds and FMF torque desert pipe. The bike still hesitates a little down low but nothing like it did when I was rich in the idle circuit. Then it simply did not have any low end nada (not an exageration).


Did you adjust the air mixture screw???Try turning out and in till you get a response you like. Sounds like fine tuning it to me :nod: