Returning rider needs advice (long)

Grissom29 · Jan 3, 2004

Hello,

I found this site today while doing some research. I was trying to locate information to help me determine how/what to select as a return to off-road riding.

I am 30, 5'8", 200 lbs. I rode a Honda XR80 from age 12 - 14, and a Honda CR125 from 14 - 16. With exception of my son (age 6), I have no memories in life that I revere more than those of my days of riding my dirtbikes.

I recently purchased a '97 Suzuki Savage 650 street bike. I'm really enjoying it alot, and now I want to start planning my return to dirtbikes. In particular I plan to get a bike for my son also (probably first), so that we can go on weekend camping trips together.

In reflection of my childhood, I feel that the XR80 provided me with a relatively lightweight, easy platform to learn the physical mechanics of riding a motorcycle. The 4 stroke motor was easy to manage and kept me out of any severe power troubles. Once I made friends to ride with, I quickly surpassed the abilities of the bike, and punished it and myself on a daily basis. This went on for along time because my parents could not get me a bigger bike. At age 15, I got a job and start saving my money. When I got to the point that my MX boots and the XR's suspension were not sparing my legs from the impact of my jumps, I bought a used CR125.

The CR125 was much more appropriate for me based on it's suspension and my weight, but it was extremely tall for me. I had a hard time starting it when it was cold because I could only flat foot it on one side. To get it going daily I'd have to put one foot on a curb or rock, and kick it off. Once warm it would start on one good jump that I just had to be sure I landed my left foot solidly on the ground. The 2 stroke motor was alot more fun to ride on, but took more practice to manage. Some times it was annoying that it didn't like the lower rpms needed for trails or quietly getting through the neighborhood. It also made some of the jumps a bit more of a white knuckle affair, but was manageable with practice. This bike provided many hours of fun until it was time for me to buy a car. With my father out of work, my bike was eventually sold for extra car money. I didn't ride again until this year when I took a MSF course for a street bike.

My son is 6, so I figure I'll be getting him one of the small auto-clutch bikes to start with. The selection for him does not seem as complicated to me. He's going to be riding 4 stroke beginner bikes for a while.

For myself, I'm going to need something that can handle trails, mudding, jumping, my occasional lapse of throttle restraint, etc... I want something versatile, but not necessarily docile. I need to be able to get comfortable with it's seat height since I'm not real tall. My limited experience has me leaning to the power of a 2 stroke, but it seems like 4 stroke motors have come along way in the last 15 years. I have no idea how to determine what I should get, but I'm not going to put my hide in the hands of a dealer when the time comes. They too often oversell for the good of comissions.

Mechanically, I'm not very qualified. I can handle technical things (I do IT for a living) when I apply myself, and therefore I plan to learn to do the basics and more for maintenance. I'll leave the complicated things to a shop though.

I'm also going to need to start locating places that my son and I could possibly ride/camp for a weekend when the time comes. I plan to make these purchases over the next year or so.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Web links to information works for me as well. Any input/experiences similiar to mine?

thanks in advance for your assistance,

Jason

drk98 · Jan 3, 2004

If you want a 2 stroke w/ some low end power look at the KDX or EXC. Both are versitile and have smooth reliable power. As for 4 strokes a 250F MXer is pretty versitile. The WR250F is like a MXer but adhusted for the trails. You might want some more power and thats why I recommend a KDX or EXC. The GasGas Pamperas are even tamer than the KDX or EXC but hard to come by.

As for your son pick the cheapest or coolest looking 50. You might put him on a XR70 or PW80 if you wait to long though.

kawdude · Jan 3, 2004

XR 70 if the boy is tall enough. It's a great bike.

Grissom29 · Jan 3, 2004

Who makes the EXC?

Grissom29 · Jan 3, 2004

Nevermind, I figured out it was KTM.

I'm mainly concerned with what to get for myself since the options for my son are much less complicated. I think his size is right for the 50 but we'll find out in person soon.

Jason

Grissom29 · Jan 4, 2004

Nevermind, I figured out it was KTM.

I'm mainly concerned with what to get for myself since the options for my son are much less complicated. I think his size is right for the 50 but we'll find out in person soon.

Jason

coleman · Jan 4, 2004

If you're concerned about starting I would suggest the wr250f or a ktm 400/450 exc. Both of these bikes have electic starters. The ktm 400 or 450 (I'd suggest a 400 because it would be more managable) would be good to right out of the box. The wr250f needs a pipe, yzf cam and a few free mods to run well. Both bikes would be really good for trails and should handle jumping alright. I ride a yz250f, which is the mx version of the wr250f, in the woods mostly and its fine too. If you dont think you need the electric start then you should look at a yz250f, crf250f or a kx250f. Thats my opinion anyway.

Grissom29 · Jan 4, 2004

Coleman,

Thanks for your input!

I'm not really interested in electric start, I enjoyed kicking it over actually. I am just concerned about the seat height on the bikes. I'm assuming that these bikes can be shortened a little in the suspension to accomodate for height to some degree?

Thanks again,

Jason

Instaurare · Jan 4, 2004

I lowered the height of my KDX substantially by adding Koubalinks, and by substituting low density foam (and less of it) in the seat, in place of the high density stock foam. Lowered it a lot.

drk98 · Jan 4, 2004

I'm 5'7" and just dropping the forks and adjusting the shock worked for me(on my KDX). I don't think you'll have to worry about it much.

Coleman suggested the 400/450EXC 4 stroke which has comparable power to the 200/250EXC 2 stroke. But they are heavier and harder to control in tight situations. Thats why you might look at a 250F. As a beginner you might like it but you might want more power in the future. OTOH, if you plan to ever race a 250F is a versitile bike.

Tony Eeds · Jan 4, 2004

Grissom29:

The EXC version of the KTM bikes are great woods weapons. The SX versions are meant more for the tracks. The MXC versions are for desert / open terrain

Regarding bikes ... I am 5'10 / 165# and I bought a '02 400MXC when I jumped back in. I love the bike and still have it, but I found it to be a handful to deal with in the woods. I am getting faster on it, but still am more comfortable on my '01 KTM 200MXC that I bought this spring. I can flick it around in the woods much easier, a fact that may relate more to the fact that I grew up on a Penton and understand two stroke power better.

Both bikes are tall, but you can lower the seat by modifying the rear subframe ($75.00) and take a knife to the seat foam (free). I have lower the 400 but not the 200 to date.

What part of Texas are you in? There are a bunch of us here. Maybe you could hook up with us and try out a bunch of different bikes.

BTW - My son weighs #225 and can ride either of my bikes comfortably. They don't lack for power.

As Colman said, I would also recommend the 400 (which was brought back this year after being dropped with the introduction of the 450) as it is a short stroke engine that revs like an electric motor.

Grissom29 · Jan 4, 2004

Originally posted by Tony Eeds
What part of Texas are you in?

I live in Dallas near Carrollton.

That brings me to another question. What's the best way to locate riding locations? I've found a few places listed on the net that provide camping as well.

Thanks again,

Jason

Tony Eeds · Jan 4, 2004

Originally posted by Grissom29
I live in Dallas near Carrollton.
That brings me to another question. What's the best way to locate riding locations? ...

Jason: Check out the North Texas Smack Pack forum. We get together every week or so, and now is prime riding weather.

Regarding camping ....
Muenster has places to camp, but no hookups (that I know of),
Lake Murray has camping and hookups. The trails there are more forgiving although tighter,
are two locations that I have been.

I have heard that Barnwell Mountain Recreational Area is real nice and has all hookups available. It is reputed to be really rocky.

Tony

Grissom29 · Jan 4, 2004

Tony,

Sounds good, thanks for the info. The weather has been great lately hasn't it? I've been enjoying my new Savage wherever possible.

It's going to take me a little time to get the money together for another bike. I just bought the Savage, but I spent less than I expected, so I have some left over. That coupled with IRS and a few months savings should do the trick before summer if I find a good deal (I hope). But only time will tell for sure.

Jason

blanc · Jan 4, 2004

My dad just did the same as you same size and weight just hes 45, he got a gasgas ec250, and its is absolutely great. Might even sell my Honda CR250, to get 1. Happy New Year.

Grissom29 · Jan 4, 2004

If I factor what I'm reading here based on other peoples similiar needs, and my own preference to 2 stroke bikes... it seems that I should lean to the Kawa KDX or the KTM EXC. When you factor in budgetary constraints against the fact that I just want to play and not race, the KDX seems to be the better buy for me. (Bare in mind I could easily just buy any used 125cc MX'er based on availability and budget also.)

What about the hp/displacement of the KDX200? I rode a 84 CR125 and it was as much as I could handle. A quick ride on a neighbors LCS CR250 scared the crap out of me. How should I feel about it's additional displacement? I understand that displacement does not always equal HP/torque, but does anyone have figures on the KDX200? I've not found any in google thus far.

Thanks again,

Jason

Tony Eeds · Jan 4, 2004

Out of the box, the KDX will be a good bike and if you are willing to dump some $$ into them they can become awsome bikes. The KTM will set you back more $$ on the front end, but will need little (if anything) done to them to make keep them better than your experience level. I picked up an '01 as a sweet killer deal, so I am a bit perjudiced. If you cut me, I will bleed orange. ;)

Stan Flemming rode a KDX 220 for many years, literally growing up on the bike. StacyKDX220 now has the bike, the circle remains unbroken. Stand is now on a KTM 250. I'll get him to check in here.

Grissom29 · Jan 5, 2004

Tony,

Perhaps availability with decide which of the two ends up in my garage this year?

What about the power question though? My 125 was at my limits of ability, and it's been 15 years since I've ridden that way. Though I do ride a Savage 650 about 2 days a week now, that's a different kind of ride. The Savage only has about 25(ish) hp and is therefore extremely managable.

Should I be concerned about the difference between a modern 200cc 2 stroke vs. my early 80's 125cc 2 stroke?

I'm starting to get excited, I hope we get our W2's soon...

Jason

Michelle · Jan 5, 2004

http://www.dirtrider.net/justkdx/dynotesting.html
Not sure what KTM that involves, but you could ask (I'd presume an EXC, but have been wrong many times before now). There are also threads in the KDX forum comparing the two bikes.
http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89880&highlight=ktm (compares 125SX v KDX)
http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39716&highlight=ktm (compares 200 v KDX)
http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58559&highlight=ktm (FredT's KTM ride report - mind you, it's a 250EXC)
http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35731&highlight=ktm (200exc v kdx)

I'm sure there are more threads around, both in the KDX forum & the Euro bike forum.

Now a comparison between an early 80's 125 & modern 200? Hmm, can't say I remember seeing one of them (comparisons).

What this thread feels like is someone who wants us to say "buy this, it's ideal for you", but we can only point you in directions & make suggestions. You have to try out some bikes & decide. One thing about KDX's though, is stock they're a different bike from modified. An aftermarket pipe makes a huge difference & some people do prefer them stock. You can also get rev & torque pipes for the KDX, which do differ & is a personal preference thing.

Hope that helps some & good luck.
Michelle

Tony Eeds · Jan 5, 2004

:worship: Michelle ... Great finds!

Regarding power, the power of my 125 Penton was strong and smooth and the 200MXC is similar but (of course) larger. The Penton had a very smooth power band with very little apparent hit, the power band of the 200 has a definite sweet spot, but the throttle is not a light switch, like so many modern 125 MX weapons. I had a YZ125 for a year and although I could raise the front end any time I wanted, I could also scare myself silly with it in the woods, never mind that is ate spark plugs like I eat chips. It was not made for the woods.

The biggest difference between ‘70 era bikes and those of the ‘90's and on is the dramatic increase in suspension travel, almost to the point that the bikes are difficult to handle because of their seat height.

I am considering adding a fly wheel weight to my 200 as one last mod towards improving the low end grunt, not that it really needs it. I can ride the bike up virtually any hill and not worry a bit about making it. The low speed tractability is beyond compare in my book. Couple that with the 125 frame specs and you have an all around great bike without the weight of a larger machine.

soboy · Jan 5, 2004

I am also 5'8 and 200, and returned to dirt bikes this year after many years of not riding. I started on a Yamaha 60 in 1973, outgrew that and rode a Yamaha DT100 for a while, then got into street bikes. The biggest problem you are going to have is seat height. I test sat all the new bikes, and the only 2 that fit were the Honda crf230F and the Yamaha ttr225. I rode the Honda on the dirt, it was great - plenty of power and suspension for my tastes. I bought an old Yamaha DT250 - 1978 monoshock model, in excellent shape, because I love the bikes from the 70's, and I wanted a dual sport. Good luck, and try the 2 I mentioned if you are looking to get a modern dirtbike.

Grissom29 · Jan 5, 2004

Originally posted by Michelle
[BWhat this thread feels like is someone who wants us to say "buy this, it's ideal for you", but we can only point you in directions & make suggestions. [/B]

I'm very sorry you feel that way. I never wanted to be told a particular bike, I wanted to know the type of information to help me figure it out myself. It seems that people are used to saying... "Get XYZ if you like..." or "ABC if you like..."

In your defense, I did reread my post and I failed to ask one of the questions that I had in my head when IK first started typing... "How do I know if I want a 2 stroke or 4 stroke?" I hated my weakling 4 stroke motor when I was a teen, but it seems like they have changed alot since then.

I don't have the knowledge to figure this out on my own, so I thought I should ask around to people that ride. I'd love to ride some bikes and find out what I want but I don't have any friends who ride. I'm trying to start a hobby for my family, so I'll be the one doing the discovery. I'm also not one to ask to ride other peoples bikes, because I feel that motorcycles are very personal things.

Also, I have read many other threads before posting here. I believe one should try and help themself first, then seek assistance second. I've even read some of the ones that you linked to.

Thanks for trying to help.

Jason

truespode · Jan 5, 2004

Jason,

Where do you live in Texas? You can post in the Places to Ride Forum about meeting up with some of the Texas DRN'ers and possibly get a test ride on a few bikes.

Ivan

Brian · Jan 5, 2004

I had a 97 kdx200, like Tony said, but have since moved on to my 01 250 MXC.

IMO the ideal bike for you would be a KTM 200 EXC. Its light, user friendly, but has plenty of get-up-and-go as well. I ride with a guy that has one, very fun bike to play on.

The same can be said about the KDX 200/220 line. After riding a KDX 200, a KTM 200 EXC, and a 200 MXC, I'd say the KDX has the least power and is heavier. The 200 E has very linear power, and the 200 M has a good hit to it. I believe the only difference between the 200 E and 200 M is the powervalve setting, so either could be made like the other with a simple turn of a screwdriver.

It is all personal preference, but if I was in your shoes, I'd go with the KTM 200 EXC--hands down.

Michelle · Jan 5, 2004

Jason, I'm not putting you down. I've been reading this thread with interest since you started it & watching how you're being torn between this bike & that bike (and am curious what you end up with).

As for not riding other peoples' bikes because they're personal things, well, the unwritten rule is "you break it, you fix it". Dirtriders are different from road riders, we do try out other peoples' bikes, when they're offered, how long a ride is depends on circumstances. I don't like taking other bikes for rides, so only take them on short ones, but I do like to try out other bikes.

As for Ivan's idea of posting in the places to ride forum, what have you got to lose? You're not a total beginner, so it's not like you'll get target fixation for the nearest cactus (or whatever the heck you guys have down there).

As for whether you want 2 or 4, dunno, it depends on whether you want a two-stroke hit or not ;) There have been threads about that, which I'm sure you've read. If you were over here, you'd be more than welcome to try out my KDX (if you could snare it from my husband).

Good luck with your search & it is a great sport for the family (what you getting your wife hehehe)
Michelle

Returning rider needs advice (long)

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blanc

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Tony Eeds

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