short rider, tall bike and kickstarting technique?

[stormi]

Hi All,

I thought I'd step out of the ladies room so see if I can get still more opinions on this. (Since I know there are a few height challenged males out here too.)

I've been riding since last summer, and started on a TTR-125L that we sold this year, and bought me a "full-sized bike". I'm 5'4" and have a brand new 2002 KTM 200 EXC. (leftover in the warehouse) We've set the sag and brought the forks down a little to accomodate my height, as well as shaving the seat and putting a gripper seat cover on ( as the same time, taking a bit of the "bite" off the really hard KTM seat.) The suspension isn't yet broken in, so I suspect, that starting issues will get to be less and less an issue, esp as I get stronger.

Once I'm on the bike, I'm fine, all the controls are in good places for me, or can be adjusted to be so, but I'm finding Kickstarting to be a huge challenge. In many cases, with the aid of a nice bump in the road or a friendly picnic table :) I can get the bike started. However, in many cases, I find myself without any sort of landscape advantage, and unable to start the bike. Once I get my foot on the kickstarter, I'm at such an awkward angle, that I feel like my knee is at my ear, and can't seem to deliver enough power to kickstart it. If I lean the bike to the left a little to start it, I generally find myself tipping over. My balance isn't yet good enough to stand on both pegs to start it.

My current solution is to put the kickstand down, and stand on the left peg while starting, but I have been advised that this is a bad idea.

So,.. here I am,.. asking,.. what technique do you all use to start if a bike is a little too tall to start comfortably?? Or failing that, what might end up being the "most reliable" technique, that I should maybe concentrate on learning?

Thanks

 

[jordanmontgomery]

I'm about 5'10" and weigh around 140lbs., so I'm a little on the small side too. I used to have trouble starting my YZ250F due to my height, but I found out that I could sit back on the seat with my butt almost touching the fender and then I could kind of seat-bounce and then use the weight of my body falling to start the bike.

 

[stormi]

What?? You're short? I must be a dwarf! ;) I thought these bikes were made for riders your size. Thanks, I will definately give that a try when we go out this weekend, but if I recall correctly,.. I might be too short to manage from way back there. (Can't touch the ground anymore, no balance) Who knows though, perhaps using that and some other techniques, I can develop some technique of my very own to get this thing started consistently.

 

[blanc]

A friend of mine is in the exact same position. Hes 5 6' or so(I think), he is riding a 01tm125e. He can not even put his feet down in the woods and i think that this is putting him off biking(He had a kx125 and had no probs at all). Any idea if its possible to make the bike shorter and how easy is that to do? He uses Paoili?Marazzochi conventional forks?9Can you just cut the springs an inch?)

He is in the same position as you....he falls a lot! I have seen him sit right back on the rear fender and lean the bike to the left slightly, he then Kicks it, with no probs!!

 

[stormi]

I think all the bikes can be made shorter... of course I'm pretty new to this so I might be wrong. He could start with the stuff we did, set the sag (what is it... 4" of travel from the bike standing on it's own to you being on it?), shave the seat foam. We set my sag a little more than 4" I think it was nearly 5" but then brought the forks down accordingly so as to not mess up the rake. I hear tons of people talking about shorter/softer springs, and other mods. I prefer to go cheapest to most expensive myself, and so far what we've done in two evenings work for "free" is almost enough. There are also those that talk about cutting the subframe to get it lower, but that seems pretty major to me.

 

[stormi]

So, Here's my "technique" for now. I found that I can sit very far forward, nearly on the gas tank. Then put my foot on the kickstarter and shove as hard and as quickly as I can back and downward. When I do this, my left foot comes off the ground and I do this goofy little bounce thing, but can start the bike quite often. Apparently it looks funny, but I was getting it started on the first kick probably 3 out of 4 times. Warning though, it can be pretty exhausting!

Also, esp in sand, I noticed that if I sit forward, then put my left foot on the peg and kick with the right, I can often get in 3 kicks before I tip over enough that I need to stop kicking and try to keep myself off the ground.

I hope this helps someone else out there.

 

[toddmh]

Im around 5'7" and have a YZ250F,I shaved the original seat to almost nothing and replaced it with a softer more cushy foam.Now I can put one foot on the ground but not two at the same time.Mine is an 2002 so it is a pain to kick with the decompressing and all..

 

[theturbojosh]

I'm six foot and very lazy I sometimes just push off and pop the clutch this seems to work very well on 200cc and below machines

 

[Birken Vogt]

I am 6' but both my bikes are too tall for me to stand up with both feet down so I had to adapt. Both bikes require a mighty kick to get started and that actually helps with the height and starting somewhat. What I do is to bring the starter to TDC then return the lever to the top. What happens next is a balancing act as I push off the ground with the left foot to sort of push the bike towards standing straight up but not so far that it breaks over and falls to the right, at the same time I give myself a little extra boost higher with the right foot on the starter lever, then as I start to come down on the starter I put all my weight into it and at the same time get ready to land on the left foot again as the bike begins to fall back to the left. Sounds confusing but I do it all the time on side hills both directions and flat ground. On side hills where the right is up obviously I have to modify the procedure and my right foot is doing the balancing and kicking.

If the bike breaks over to the wrong side it might take some fancy footwork to save it but if the side hill is too steep it will tip over on me. This is a good incentive for me not to let this happen. Also somewhat amusing to onlookers is when the foot slips off the starter lever and the pant leg gets caught on it, this almost always results in a crash to the right. ;)

Birken

 

[stormi]

I am 6' but both my bikes are too tall for me to stand up with both feet down so I had to adapt. Both bikes require a mighty kick to get started and that actually helps with the height and starting somewhat. What I do is to bring the starter to TDC then return the lever to the top. What happens next is a balancing act as I push off the ground with the left foot to sort of push the bike towards standing straight up but not so far that it breaks over and falls to the right, at the same time I give myself a little extra boost higher with the right foot on the starter lever, then as I start to come down on the starter I put all my weight into it and at the same time get ready to land on the left foot again as the bike begins to fall back to the left. Sounds confusing but I do it all the time on side hills both directions and flat ground. On side hills where the right is up obviously I have to modify the procedure and my right foot is doing the balancing and kicking.

If the bike breaks over to the wrong side it might take some fancy footwork to save it but if the side hill is too steep it will tip over on me. This is a good incentive for me not to let this happen. Also somewhat amusing to onlookers is when the foot slips off the starter lever and the pant leg gets caught on it, this almost always results in a crash to the right. ;)

Birken

LOL!! I think that's exactly how I'm starting. It does look funny, I've noticed grins on the faces of both of the guys I ride with, but I get it started. :)

 

[rompnstomp]

I'm 6'1" but lazy

I kick a KTM 380 EXC, which needs a decent kick compared to a 250 or something. If I'm in the woods in an awkward sort of position, I'll find a tree or something to lean the left side of the bars on..then I can do a left foot on the peg kick. This usually saves energy and allows me to get a harder kick so I don't wear myself out with weak kicks when I can hardly touch.

 

[1966mustang]

Well im 15 im 5,5 and i ride my stepdads kx500 can you imagine that i just jump on and kick it i have to lean to the left quite a bit though but im fine so i think you can hadle it if you keep trying.

 

[MX-727]

You mentioned lowering the subframe. Not that major really:

Two ways to do it:

1) Cut a short section out of each of the diagonal suppports and have the subframe welded back together.

2) Elongate or ovalize the bottom mounting holes in the subframe so that it will slide farther down.

Either of these mods will lower the rear of the seat quite a bit. Do some research and check the KTM forum. I know that Tony Eeds has lowered the subframe on his 200.

Here are some links to other threads:

Lower Subframe Thread

Another Thread

Oh, you can use the kickstand trick for those times when you can't do anything else or when you are just too tired to get it running any other way. Since you say you are able to balance the bike and get three kicks without having a foot on the ground, you should also be able to start the bike without putting an undue amount of stress on the kickstand.

 

[stormi]

Well im 15 im 5,5 and i ride my stepdads kx500 can you imagine that i just jump on and kick it i have to lean to the left quite a bit though but im fine so i think you can hadle it if you keep trying.

Yikes! You must have more muscles than I do! I Have tried leaning to the left and kicking, but I generally find that I have to abandon my kick in order to save myself from tipping over. Suddenly I feel very wimpy.
:rotfl:

 

[stormi]

I kick a KTM 380 EXC, which needs a decent kick compared to a 250 or something. If I'm in the woods in an awkward sort of position, I'll find a tree or something to lean the left side of the bars on..then I can do a left foot on the peg kick. This usually saves energy and allows me to get a harder kick so I don't wear myself out with weak kicks when I can hardly touch.

I do the same, but when I can't find a landscape advantage, tree, rut, etc, I find invariably I kick til I'm worn out or my boyfriend rescues me. If I'm to manage the bike on my own, I have to find a way to kick it whenever and wherever I am. I'm finding my funny little hop thing seems to be working, when my foot doesn't slip off the kickstarter and smash into the peg. Worse still is that I haven't been back on the bike since I did that, so now I find myself looking at it thinkging "Geez,.. I hope -that- doesn't happen again."

 

[1966mustang]

Im not really sure what to tell you thats my method but i have had to lean against stuff like you said before. My grandpa asked me to start a 750 yahmaha one time he thought he was being funny so i hopped on and could barely hold it up but i kicked it and the engine backfired and threw me literally over the handlebars. Needless to say i hurt a little.

 

[stormi]

You mentioned lowering the subframe. Not that major really:

Two ways to do it:

1) Cut a short section out of each of the diagonal suppports and have the subframe welded back together.

2) Elongate or ovalize the bottom mounting holes in the subframe so that it will slide farther down.

Either of these mods will lower the rear of the seat quite a bit. Do some research and check the KTM forum. I know that Tony Eeds has lowered the subframe on his 200.

I suppose that this is one of those "professional only" mods? After all, a new subframe can't be cheap if you mess it up. :) So far, I'm getting along with it. It wins some days, but most days we tie. Part of the reason that I'm leary about shortening the subframe, is that it seems to me that if I end up selling it in the future ( I -am- nearly thirty, so the old bones won't be healing as fast soon. ;) ), it limits my selling audience. For instance with a seat shaving, people go "no big deal" if I've lowered the subframe to fit my short legs, then only short riders will like the bike. Of course, at this point in my "riding career", this this bike is all and more than I'm ever going to need in a bike.

Iread through the posts you gave, and will putter into the KTM forum shortly. I'm curious though as to why people have referred to this as a "KTM only" mod. (Unless it has something to do with the fact that my 200exc stands higher than my boyfriend's CR250 even with the seat shaved.

Oh, you can use the kickstand trick for those times when you can't do anything else or when you are just too tired to get it running any other way. Since you say you are able to balance the bike and get three kicks without having a foot on the ground, you should also be able to start the bike without putting an undue amount of stress on the kickstand.

-Up to- 3 kicks, I guess would have been more accurate for me to say. :) But yes, I can do that when I'm tired. I'm just afraid of breaking the kickstand, or more accurately, wheatever the kickstand bolts to so I can't put another one on. Truly though, I guess I'm only putting my full weight on it when I'm trying to get up into position, after that, I'm holding it up off the stand. I've noticed that the bike is higher if it's on the kickstand than if it's not, and I'm trying to kick, so I wonder if that method will fall by the wayside for the other method soon enough.

 

[stormi]

Im not really sure what to tell you thats my method but i have had to lean against stuff like you said before. My grandpa asked me to start a 750 yahmaha one time he thought he was being funny so i hopped on and could barely hold it up but i kicked it and the engine backfired and threw me literally over the handlebars. Needless to say i hurt a little.

Yeow! I can imagine. I justabout went over the bars once when the bike decided it had had enough of my wimpy kicking. The kickstarter sprang back to the front and I wasn't ready for it and found myself parallel with the bars before I stopped myself. My TTR never did that to me. ;) Perhaps now that I've got some more muscles than the last time we rode ( been renovating the house) I'll give your method another couple of tries.

 

[1966mustang]

By the way i doubt very likely yopu will break the kickstand bolts i have started many bikes like that like when i was 3 i started out on a suzuki 50 and had to start it on the kickstand i dont think you will hurt anything myself

 

[stormi]

By the way i doubt very likely yopu will break the kickstand bolts i have started many bikes like that like when i was 3 i started out on a suzuki 50 and had to start it on the kickstand i dont think you will hurt anything myself

Oh really? I've had a few dire warnings that it was a baaaaaaaddddd thing to do. I figure,.. kickstands are relatively cheap,.... as long as I don't mess up anything else.... including myself. :) I was likely to do it anyway whether it was bad or not. I figured, it shouldn't hurt the bike itself.

 

[1966mustang]

Yeah ive done it and seen many people do it so in my opinion it wont hurt.

 

[pyrofreak]

You might jsut try kicking it over off the bike if your left leg is strong enough, then jsut hop on and go.

 

[stormi]

You might jsut try kicking it over off the bike if your left leg is strong enough, then jsut hop on and go.

you mean standing on the right side of the bike? Tried it, not really strong enough and it's really awkward. Some of this comes down to me being a new rider ( since last summer, when I started on a TTR 125L) and got a new bike this summer and have been on it less than a handful of times. It's going to take some time to build the muscles and a new technique, I think. The TTR was grumpy to start at times, but didn't have enough power to fight back when I was starting. :)

 

[MX-727]

It's not a KTM only mod, but there are different ways to skin the cat for different bikes, so that's why I recommended the KTM forum.

An aftermarket sub-frame usually costs under $200. Not sure if AC Racing makes one. KTM guys would know where to get one.

I see many BIG guys sitting on their bikes with the kickstand supporting them. I don't think you are likely to damage your kickstand. Keep an eye on it and just be conscious of trying direct most of the applied force in a vertical direction through the tires.

 

[stormi]

Well, as time permits, I do putter through the forums. I really did think that subframes would be more expensive than that. I will definitely keep an eye on that kickstand. Hopefully I'll get some time to get out and ride it in the next little bit, and try out some of these techniques. (Been busy with renovations)