jaguar

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Anyone know of a small engine that has a head without a squish band? I need to know in order to have some evidence in an ongoing discussion I am in. In a forum I'm in I posted the following info and wound up getting flamed for it. Hey, don't shoot the messenger! Someone said that Honda ALWAYS uses squish bands. I can't imagine their CT90 had a squish band. help!

In the paper "Advances in the Design of Two-Stroke, High Speed, Compression Ignition Engines" it is written that with a squish band there is more heat loss due to swirl. [which brings more burning fuel in contact with metal.] Heat is what causes expansion of gases to push against the piston so it equates to say that heat loss, without regard to other factors, reduces power. The advantage of swirl is better mixing and flame propagation. But in a small engine there is usually already enough mixing due to its high intake/transfer turbulence. When I tested a head on my 55cc that had a squish band the power output was less. This most probably is only the case for small engines since larger engines need help with fuel/air mixing, and flame speed increase is helpful because of larger distances from spark plug to cylinder wall.
This is not to say that a good cylinder head with a squish band will never improve power. There are always many factors at play in 2 strokes. Increasing the compression can give as much as a 5% boost in power. But it is my opinion that these small engines will do better without a squish band. I don't remember where I read that small engines have more intake/transfer turbulence but I did read it.

Gordon Jennings - Two Stroke Tuners Handbook
"But if you want to use a true (measured from exhaust-closing) compression ratio much over 6.5:1, on a high-output engine, combustion control beyond that afforded by a non-squish cylinder head will be necessary." (he is referring to a head w/squish band being necessary for high compression high rpm engines)

What I recommend and use [for bicycle engines] is no more than a compression of around 130psi which is right around the mentioned 6.5:1 ratio. If you go over that and have ported the engine to rev up to at least 9,000 rpm then you should use a cylinder head with a squish band. The engine I used to test had a top rpm of around 8,000.
Since very few people with these engines run higher than 130psi and/or rev higher than 9000 I think my advice concerning squish bands is accurate for the majority.
 

Rich Rohrich

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If memory serves correctly Morbidelli built some of their GP 125 engines without a squish band. I don't recall exactly but I think it was sometime in the middle 70s.
 

Rich Rohrich

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jaguar said:
thanks for the info Rich. Can you comment on my suggestion to people to not worry about having a squish band if they are keeping the measured cylinder pressure below 140 psi and the revs below 9000?

I don't think it's quite that black and white.
 

jaguar

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the 2 stroke world often has exceptions to general rules. I am dying to know what they would be in this case. I already told the forum I am waiting on the complete story from you. I hate to lean on you but there's no one else that can set the story straight like you. I understand that from non-squish to squish the timing has to be delayed.
 

_JOE_

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Do squish bands come in the same varieties as powerbands? Id like to match my purple powerband. ;)
 

jaguar

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I just calculated my 55cc engine and from a 7:1 CR with 200psi and 5.5:1 CR with 150psi I figure 6.5:1 is almost 185psi. (My piston is from a motorcycle and both ring ends have a normal gap to seal better than the stock rings). So when Jennings indicated that a squish band is appropriate over a 6.5:1 CR he meant 185psi (more or less depending on how accurate my gauge is).
 

jaguar

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Squish head
compression: 170psi
compr ratio: 10.3
squish band width: 6mm
squish band area: 48%
clearance: .65mm
velocity: 16.4m/s
delayed ignition
overall impression: ran good but not noticeably better
top speed: 57.7kph (which is 35.9 mph)
top temp F: 390

Non-squish head
compression: 170psi
compr ratio: 10.3
overall impression: ran good
top speed: 53.5kph
top temp F: 340

But I had set my adjustable ignition to be delayed a bit and forgot to return to normal setting for the non-squish head test. Now it's dark and my batteries for my lights need recharging so I will continue testing tomorrow.

Gordon Jennings wrote: "no [mass produced] 2 stroke engine in my experience had ever tolerated cranking pressures above 175psi".


I can't tell any power difference between the two heads, both at 170psi. But the one with the squish band lets it rev out further. That is when I am using an expansion chamber. It either is increasing the top end power or it is causing the exhaust gas to be hotter which affects sound wave speed which extends the pipes powerband. Next I need to test them using only the stock muffler because it won't be affected by exhaust temperature.
The squish band head runs hotter at 390 degrees vrs 340 for the regular head.
I used a modified Jaguar CDI to test it. I reduced the normal input resistance to delay the ignition. And it liked no secondary jumper so I just redid the CDI for even more top rpm ignition advance. I will probably start making them with the extra adjustability for people using these heads with squish band.
The 50 extra degrees doesn't worry me since it is borrowed from the piston, which is a good thing. What worries me is the 170psi. That is higher than most motocross bikes. It will shorten the life of the conrod bearings, no doubt. I may reduce the pressure in the normal head to 150psi for continued testing and I'll leave the other head at 170psi since that parallels heads being sold.
 

jaguar

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final test results with muffler exhaust (not expansion chamber):
160psi standard head
55.6kph 320 degrees

160psi squish head
56.1kph 370 degrees

The squish head was run with the most retarded total ignition curve setting.
Both heads got the best top speed with the most advanced final curve setting. (It has a custom CDI I adapted from the KDX CDI)

I just took off the squish head and measured the squish clearance and it was .82mm.
The difference between the two speeds is .9%. So most of the speed increase previously recorded was due to a longer burn (burning the squish-hidden 10% of fuel/air) increasing the exhaust temperature which caused a higher peak rpm of the expansion chambers powerband.
 

jaguar

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My final conclusion: Squish bands are detonation preventors for high compression. For engines that rev higher than the 8300 rpm of mine they may also significantly boost top rpm power. Until I test at those rpm I can't do anything but speculate with what I know about how they act on the fuel/air mixture. On these small engines it's really hard to design a head with a squish band that allows less than 160psi. I had to increase the dome size and add an extra gasket (.2mm thick) in order to get the psi down to 160. I designed a head for a 125 with squish band and there was 25% more inner dome diameter which means more volume so that the compression doesn't have to be so high.
 

jsantapau

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Nov 10, 2008
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I do not believe the 77 honda cr 125 I had ,had a squish band nor do I think my 82 rm 250 had one niether but that is from a fading memory of a kid who wouldn't know any better
 

sbest

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Mar 12, 2013
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Jaguar, are you the same guy from the McDizzy List? Nice hearing from you.

My work has been on 125-300cc KTM, Yamaha and Honda 2 strokes and bike and automotive 4 strokes. I played with squish areas, bowl shapes and volumes, and squish gaps. Results tend to deliver in a "Bell Curve" fashion with a bias one way or the other, for example squish gap in these engines is ideally 0.030" to 0.040" and gets bad fast if reduced to 0.020" but is still acceptable at 0.060".

I found high rpm and smaller engines need less squish area % at rpm, but that more squish area helps to fill in the torque and make these engines less peaky. More squish area (and deeper bowls) does take some power at max rpm at comparable cranking pressures, but make more power by allowing higher cranking pressures and increasing mid-range power to increase the average and tame the powerband.

Hemispherical and shallow bowls tend to favour high rpm power production, toroidal and deep bowls favour mid-range power and a sharp rpm cut off in my experience. If I was building a high revving geared street motor I might tend to go low percentage squish area with a shallow hemi bowl and moderate compression to not blow heat into the piston.

Squish and compression are for the low and mid rpm range. High rpm want a smooth head surface to sweep clean. Squish speeds up the burn so it needs less advance.

Gordon Jennings was my guru in the 1970s but this is 40 years later. Many advances have been made but it is amazing his work is still so valuable today. "The 2stroke Tuner's Guide" is definitely the first book to read on 2 strokes.

Steve

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