Steel City (Spoiler)

Garyb · Sep 5, 2003

Thats funny, Brown and Hughes were over there and couldnt get it done. Came back with their tails between their legs...

super rat · Sep 5, 2003

And why did Brown and Ryno go over there? They couldn't get a ride in the states. Where do you think Tortelli's tail is? Even Pichon says that the Nationals are a better series with the best riders. "World Champ"hahah.

Okiewan · Sep 5, 2003

Hughes has ever gotten it done? How many titles does he have in the US?

Brown beat the "World Champ" did he not?

Brown went to Europe to fill the two years (pointed-out) he needed to be out of the states, so he could come back and cherry pick the 125's .

Career extenders.

I can't remember the last time a factory campaigned a national contender in Europe.

Garyb · Sep 5, 2003

Actually Brown and Hughes came back fron Europe better riders. I don't know about better men (Hughes can't even offer his congratulations to Langston..who's imploding now?)
We have proof that a World Champ can win a national championship though don't we?
hmmmm have some cheese with that whine super rat

Okiewan · Sep 5, 2003

Yeah, we have proof that ANYONE can win in a shortened season, while getting made look like a school-girl by the guy that missed 4 rounds, getting caught by a guy who missed a full round, by winning 1 moto and zero overalls and being nothing more than a top 5 rider. Consistent is right, he consistently didn't win moto's :p

But! Langston is champ, that can't be argued. He's the man.

Now ask him if he's glad it ended like it did, or if he would have preferred to win at least one round or better yet, actually be able to run with the big dog. The answer to those questions is rather obvious.

The title could have been far sweeter for Langston and frankly if he was going to be the guy, I wish it would have been better for him. Hell, at least a (real) pic of him standing on the podium at Troy holding up his number one plate would be nice.

If only he could have raced Troy and held-off Hughes for a dramatic finish....

Garyb · Sep 5, 2003

Well he was the only guy who was in the top five for every round...I call that consistant. He rode the whole year in pain...I call that courageous. He admitted that he was not the fastest rider, I call that classy. I also think he took a huge chance dropping down to the 125 class, in the eyes of some that was a cherry picking move, but think about it, what if he had not won? His career would have been on the skids.

Hughes said that if Langston did not win the title his life would be ruined. I think Langston knew that...and still went for it. I think that takes a lot of guts.

Langstons problem is that he is too honest and he is a foreigner. He's the person everybody wants to fail because he's not afraid to speak his mind. I think its refreshing.
Stewart is an unbelievable rider, but you know what? He lost this title because he crashed. Get over it.

karterron · Sep 5, 2003

Matt Kensenth is going to win the Nascar title and he has one win. So what. Championships are rewarded for being at every round and consistency. A champion should never be someone who didn't even race half the season.

Get over it. It is Bubba's fault he didn't win the title this year. Bubba threw it away when Bubba made a mistake in SX. Bubba is the reason he is not the champion.

Don't worry, he will learn to ride consistent in the 250 class, or what finishing 4th in the Championship feels like.

Okiewan · Sep 5, 2003

Get over it? I was never "on it". It's called discussion I think?

Gary.. why would Grant take such a career move? Is it possible he considered it his last realistic opportunity to pick-up a title? Seems kinda strange to take such a do-or-die risk so early in ones career. "Desperate" comes to mind.

Trust me, it makes little difference in my life that Stewart didn't win the title, lol. Frankly, I'd wager it makes NO difference in his life. On the other hand, the title makes a HUGE difference to Grant... future titles are not looking good for the guy, assuming he moves back to the grown-up class.

Hughes has already said he'll be back in the 125's to get his title. :silly: There are a couple of HOT rookies coming up next year, wouldn't that be sumpin? But who knows, maybe McGrath will come out of retirement and jump on a tiddler! But that's not cherry picking, cause uh... he's a 'mercan :laugh:

marcusgunby · Sep 5, 2003

interesting article on www.mxlarge.com about langston-i respect him for riding as well as he did with all his injuries, also he dropped to the 125s IMO for 2 reasons, 1 buuba out, he saw a chance of a title-nothing wrong in that, and 2 the 250sx wasnt safe to race on.He admitted he wasnt fast this season (compared to 2001)but he won by hard work.

The season ending up one round short is a red herring-he was leading going into the last round-not bubba or hughes-they should have been leading then they would have the title.Langston is the only world and AMA 125 champion ever.

Garyb · Sep 5, 2003

I don't think Grant was looking at it as a "last chance to bag a American title", I think he was looking at it as an opportunity to close a chapter of his life that was very painfull to him. He lost the 01 title to a freak incident that was beyond his control. He was still man enough to go over to Brown and shake his hand and offer his congratulations. I guess thats one of the reasons I get worked up when people call him a crybaby. He was 19 when he lost that title after going through hell to be in the position to win it. Hell I would have cried to

Okie - for what its worth Iam just trying to put my point accross, nothing personal.

Read racing lines at langstonracing.com, he says the next title for him will be the 250 outdoors. I think he believes he can do it. If what you are saying is true than he would have to be trying to fool us right? He doesn't think he can win but he's going to say that anyway? I don't believe that. Look at his track record, he has achieved all his goals so far.
Good discussion.

karterron · Sep 5, 2003

Langston is in dreamland if he thinks he has a chance at a 250 title in America. That just isn't going to happen. The top 10 guys in the class would have to miss multiple rounds for him to have a chance. Beating Brown and Hughes is one thing, beating RC, Kdub, CR, DV, Ferry, and now Bubba is another.

Get over it was for the few that seem to love to bash the 125 class riders because Bubba didn't win the title. Bubba didn't win because of Bubba, he has nobody else to blame. Bubba also does not deserve the title after missing that many rounds. Some people can't seem to get over that, and act like it is everyone elses fault that Bubba didn't win it.

Speed and consistency are not always the same thing. Speed doesn't win championships by itself. It takes both and to do both you have to be there for all the races.

nephron · Sep 5, 2003

Langston's last 4 rounds (OA): 5,5,5,4 (and all 4 rounds with team member 'let-bies'). Not what I call a champ--never will.

KTM's must have reverse, because he 'backed in' all the way to the title. That said, I was actually hoping he would beat Ryno--something just bugs me about him.

And no--there's not even a comparison b/t Stewart and Langston--not even close.

As far as the World Championship vs. US championship--lol, only .0005% of World riders can even qualify for a race here--so the bias you're seeing is the best of their best being here. Simply put, they send their best here, and we send our worst/point-outs there.

truespode · Sep 5, 2003

Langston did make the comment in one interview about switching to the 125 class that he would "clean up" or something like that. I wish I had a link to it but ever since the 3rd round he has been backpedaling with his comments.

He has the championship and I applaud his consistency but I do hate that he whined the way he did about cleaning up and then about being bumped by Stewart even though he dishes it out himself on more than one occassion.

Oh well. At least this will be the last AMA championship he ever wins.

Ivan

dirt bike dave · Sep 5, 2003

Originally posted by karterron
Langston is in dreamland if he thinks he has a chance at a 250 title in America. That just isn't going to happen. The top 10 guys in the class would have to miss multiple rounds for him to have a chance. Beating Brown and Hughes is one thing, beating RC, Kdub, CR, DV, Ferry, and now Bubba is another.

Alby didn't do well his first few years in America, and he managed a 250 outdoor title.  So dreams do come true.

You are selling Langston way short.  When healthy he is every bit as good as Reed, The Cobra, Ferry, the Rock, etc... BTW, in '01 Langston, Brown and Pastrana were each turning laps on their 125's that would have put them in the top 5 (sometimes top 3) of the 250 class.  

Grant rode injured all year (bad wrist among other ailments).  If he regains the speed he had in '01, IMO he is a potential top 3 rider in the 250 class.  And he could get a title with some luck (good for him, bad for Bubba & RC).

Garyb · Sep 5, 2003

"Facts do not cease to exist simply because people choose to ignore them"

marcusgunby · Sep 5, 2003

A healthy Langston would kick most of the 250s riders butts-all but RC/KW and maybe reed.However only if he has a decent bike.

 

Neph how fast are you with a broken wrist? :moon:

 

i dont like a few things Grant has said but then who likes every thing a rider says-apart from Pasty-he let everyone down in the end.I was really impressed when he kept smiling in the interviews even when he was sick and injured, and having a real bad day.He seems to show Humility-not something you can say about bubba.

BunduBasher · Sep 5, 2003

Neph, I don't think the last few rounds of the 125 championship is a true reflection on the riders abilities, most of all Langstons - He was riding to win a championship, Bubba was riding with nothing to lose. I can bet if the top three had been in a close points race, including Bubba, things would have been a lot different. The 2001 season was a thriller right till the end with both Langston and Brown riding their hearts out. That time round Brown got lucky, this time round it was Langstons turn. Both Brown and Langston showed TP a thing or two about racing, and TP was the wunderkind then.

Langston in the 250cc class needs a competative bike - hope for his sake he gets a good ride.

RC still in my mind has an edge over Bubba, so next year should be interesting.

As to the world championship, the facts are, that is much harder for a forigner to campaign abroad, which is why the Euros struggle here, and the Americans struggle in Europe.

Okie, as to cherry picking titles, one has to wonder about RC's ride in the 125 class 2 years ago, just for a record - right in the middle of an all out championship clash. Looks to me like most of these riders care nothing for sportsmanship.

BunduBasher · Sep 5, 2003

Originally posted by Okiewan

When was the last time other than a loser or a career extender in the States cared enough about the "World" Championship to go over there?

maybe they just 'skeeerd' :moon:

slideways11 · Sep 6, 2003

Skeeerd of taking a big cut in pay to race in the European Championship. If Everts is the world champion that must make RC the champion of the universe.

zcookie49 · Sep 6, 2003

Originally posted by marcusgunby
and 2 the 250sx wasnt safe to race on.

...
sorry to change the topic, but what is the deal with KTM's 250sx? I've been hearing this for a year or two now about their 250SX being "unrideable"...Whats the skinny on this? How the heck can a company manufactur and market a bike that "no pros consider safe on raceable?". Who then actually buys these bikes? and why wouldnt KTM make some huge changes to the 250SX. Is it me ? I mean, I dont recall ever seeing a KTM factory 250 rig in the pits at the nationals? If it is the bike being a problem, that doesnt speak to highly of the company not correcting this over the years.

super rat · Sep 6, 2003

Old man Dowdy rode one one to a second o/a at southwick this year but I think Dowd could beat those guys if he were on a Road Toad at the wick. I'm not sure if he is going to ride a KTM while he cherry picks an AX title. It's problbly not cherry picking when Dowdy drops down because we all like him so much.

Now, Garyb I know you LOVE Grant and thats great my wife thinks he is real cute also but Brown beat him heads up on the track in 01. I was at that race and Grant broke his wheel by flat landing that big table top every lap. I was sitting right there and when he would land you could feel the ground shake. I don't know how he did brake his ankles. Wheels don't just break. Go back and look at how many motos Brown didn't score points and how many Grant did'nt.

Then you said somthing like Grant lost the title in 01 because of freak incident out of his control. What the heck do you call Troy flooding, TWICE!!!! Bubba got robbed at a chance to make the greatest come back ever. Ryno got robbed at a chance to win his first title. Grant got robbed at a chance to hold his points lead to the end. And worst of all we didn't get to see it unfold. The AMA should not have let it end like this.

You call Ryno a over the hill whiner. Go back and watch Southwick. If thats what it means to be an over the hill whiner I'm glad you keep calling me a whiner.

BunduBasher · Sep 6, 2003

<DIV>super rat, you seem to have forgotten, that Langston BEAT brown the year before to the world championship. The very next year, they both raced to a very close finish for the 125 MX title - which to my mind just goes to show, that not only are they both world class, but world beaters too. Both deserve their titles.

So to Okie's reasoning, the 'over the hill and underskilled' Brown goes to Europe, gets beat by a 'second rate' Langston, only to come back to the so called 'worlds best' mx series, and clinch that title in a nail biting finale. - which makes the local 125 riders here just what - third rate !? :eek:

Now a 250cc rider cherry picking a 125 title sounds ludicrous to me ! - Pastrana was fantastic on a 125, not so on a 250, the same may apply to others like Brown, Ryno, and Langston. Also Langston has never had a serious chance at a 250 ride due to injury and a weak bike. If I was him, and did not have a decent ride in 2004, I'd stay with the 125's. If Langston is serious about racing the 250 class, he had better get in with a serious team, otherwise, he is just wasting his time and talent.

I wonder how all these top 125 riders would do in the 250 class - would Brown and Ryno even shape up - where would they be in the pack. If Ryno does win the championship next year, then he can rightly call himself the best 125 racer in the country.

One wonders if Bubba will see 2nd or 3rd even in the 250 championship in his first year !</DIV>

mx547 · Sep 6, 2003

Originally posted by super rat
I'm not sure if he is going to ride a KTM while he cherry picks an AX title.

i think this could be a big mistake for him. i think demuth will beat him.

Senior KX Rider · Sep 6, 2003

Originally posted by BunduBasher

One wonders if Bubba will see 2nd or 3rd even in the 250 championship in his first year !</DIV>

Without a serious Bubba injury or K-dub or RC for that matter....Those 3 will be the top 3 outdoors (and indoors) .Thats right you Reed fans......I don't think he will be a factor :scream: :scream: :moon:

Senior KX Rider · Sep 6, 2003

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