Symptoms of too much oil?

[KDX'sforever]

I have a 2004 KDX200 that is all stock. I changed the oil recently with Spectro 10w-40. I put just under a quart in it. I rode it around and the clutch worked great. My problem is it always used to start with the first kick no matter what. Now it starts with 2nd or 3rd. Is hard starting a symptom of too much oil in the crankcase? Or am i just paranoid?

 

[BigRedAF]

your paranoid...

To much oil in the crank case and it will come out of the crank case vent.

 

[ridejunky]

your paranoid...

To much oil in the crank case and it will come out of the crank case vent.

2 strokes don't have oil in the crank case thats why you mix it with gas. The oil is in the gear box is separate so it cant come out a "crank case vent" :uh:

 

[BigRedAF]

OK ride Junkster,

You caught my typo. It's clear that he said 10W40 and referred to his clutch. It is also clear that I referred to the rubber hose that pukes out the tranny oil when you over fill it. Thanks for the correction, I wouldn't want for him to think he was on a four stroke KDX. I believe that would be called a KLR.

He also said "crank case" but I knew what he was talking about and so does everyone else. The two case half's that contain the crank don't vent from the crank area anyway. If it did it would be a vacuum leak and we would be talking about a left side crank seal. :nener:

 

[ridejunky]

OK ride Junkster,

You caught my typo. It's clear that he said 10W40 and referred to his clutch. It is also clear that I referred to the rubber hose that pukes out the tranny oil when you over fill it. Thanks for the correction, I wouldn't want for him to think he was on a four stroke KDX. I believe that would be called a KLR.

He also said "crank case" but I knew what he was talking about and so does everyone else. The two case half's that contain the crank don't vent from the crank area anyway. If it did it would be a vacuum leak and we would be talking about a left side crank seal. :nener:

Man, you should be a politician, that double speak was brilliant, an uncanny grasp on the finesse elements of two stokeology coupled with a hint of four stroke genius.

 

[BigRedAF]

I'll take that as a compliment as I'm sure it was intended that way.

In my line of work CYA is required almost daily. I just try to answer stuff with as few words as I can, unfortunately I missed the vocabulary on this one. I promise to improve in the future.

 

[ridejunky]

I'll take that as a compliment as I'm sure it was intended that way.

In my line of work CYA is required almost daily. I just try to answer stuff with as few words as I can, unfortunately I missed the vocabulary on this one. I promise to improve in the future.

Fair enough I can understand a typo. Could you please elaborate on this hose that pukes tranny fluid when over filled? could this possibly be a typo too or are you mixing this up with a crankcase breather on your harleys or your 4 strokes?

 

[Isobareng]

Your hard starting is more likely old gas or a clogging pilot circuit. Also I would recommend dropping the carb drain between riding weekends and not turning on the tank petcock until you are ready to start it.

 

[Reesknight]

Changed the spark plug recently?

 

[BigRedAF]

Fair enough I can understand a typo. Could you please elaborate on this hose that pukes tranny fluid when over filled? could this possibly be a typo too or are you mixing this up with a crankcase breather on your Harleys or your 4 strokes?

OK, just went out in the garage and both MX bikes have a black hose coming out of the top of the cases behind the carburetor.

In the old days they were routed below with the carb drain hoses but now days they're routed into the airbox. By the way, both Harleys are vented from the valve covers to the back of the air cleaner assembly.

If your KDX doesn't have a case vent it might be to prevent water from getting in the cases when you guys go swamping...

Now go and try to bust someone else's balz. :nener:

 

[ridejunky]

OK, just went out in the garage and both MX bikes have a black hose coming out of the top of the cases behind the carburetor.

In the old days they were routed below with the carb drain hoses but now days they're routed into the airbox. By the way, both Harleys are vented from the valve covers to the back of the air cleaner assembly.

If your KDX doesn't have a case vent it might be to prevent water from getting in the cases when you guys go swamping...

Now go and try to bust someone balz. :nener:

Ive never seen a 2 stroke with a tranny fliud puking hose or any hose from the clutch /tranny for that mater, just looking for clarity. 4 strokes such as the bikes you have in your bio need crank vents as well as harleys. can this be the source of confusion?

 

[BigRedAF]

No...

My 500 has one and so does the 450. The Hogs vent from the valve covers into the air filter backing plate.

Perhaps the overflow phrase is wrong, it's just a vent. I suppose if it was upside down it would puke out of the hose.

If this goes much further I'll take a pic and post it for you...

 

[IndyMX]

Here's a clip from my 2000 CR125 manual..

The "breather hose" is a trans breather hose.

Just because you have never seen one ridejunky, does not mean that they aren't there.

I have 4 2 stroke bikes in my garage right now, all of them have a breather hose on the trans.

 

[BigRedAF]

INDY

Your the man!

I was planning a trip to the Kwacker shop tomorrow so I could take a pic of a hose on a KDX, you saved me some gas. Lunch is on me...

 

[IndyMX]

INDY

Your the man!

I was planning a trip to the Kwacker shop tomorrow so I could take a pic of a hose on a KDX, you saved me some gas. Lunch is on me...

HA! DEAL!

 

[ridejunky]

No...

My 500 has one and so does the 450. The Hogs vent from the valve covers into the air filter backing plate.

Perhaps the overflow phrase is wrong, it's just a vent. I suppose if it was upside down it would puke out of the hose.

If this goes much further I'll take a pic and post it for you...

Please do that, show the O.P. where his trans fluid on his kdx will puke out when he over fills it so he knows there is nothing to be paranoid about.

 

[BigRedAF]

O.P. ???

I'll work on it in my spare time. I think the pic above shows it all!

 

[ridejunky]

O.P. ???

I'll work on it in my spare time. I think the pic above shows it all!

Does it? are you sure thats a tranny vent hose?

 

[BigRedAF]

I'm guessing that O.P. means original post.

I generally don't put this much effort into anything that's not wearing a short skirt but since you're challenging my integrity here goes...

The O.P. has a 04 KDX so I went and got a copy of his cases for your review, please click on the link and enjoy...

http://webservices.motorsportdealers.com/parts/partImages/KUS/2/I10/I1088/E1411.Gif

Please note that part number 92005 is a fitting.
Part number 92959 is a tube for the purpose of breathing/venting.
Part number 92049 is a dry side seal as previously discussed.

Lets put this post to rest.

 

[IndyMX]

Does it? are you sure thats a tranny vent hose?

Why do you insist on arguing about this?

The pic I posted is a tranny breather hose.

There are two sections of the engine that that hose could possibly vent, one being the tranny and one being the crank case. Since venting the crank case would be a pretty stupid idea, what with it needing to be sealed and all, it's a pretty safe bet that it's venting the transmission. Of course since I just happen to own the bike that the manual that that pic came from is referencing, and have had it apart, I can tell you first hand with out any doubt that it is in fact a transmission breather hose.

As is the same hose in the same position on the 07 KX85, 03 YZ85 and 97 CR125 in my garage.

 

[BigRedAF]

Does it? are you sure thats a tranny vent hose?

I took extra time to check your profile and research your ride to help you out.

It just so happens that the same part numbers cover your 1998 KDX220. Here's a link to your case microfiche diagram.

http://webservices.motorsportdealers.com/parts/partImages/KUS/2/C17/C1761/E1411.Gif

I hope this helps you find your hose tonight. :laugh:

 

[ridejunky]

I took extra time to check your profile and research your ride to help you out.

It just so happens that the same part numbers cover your 1998 KDX220. Here's a link to your case microfiche diagram.

http://webservices.motorsportdealers.com/parts/partImages/KUS/2/C17/C1761/E1411.Gif

I hope this helps you find your hose tonight. :laugh:

I think there is some miss communication, the hose that comes of the fitting you are reffering to runs up under the seat. I have overfilled my tranny more than once and never had oil purging from it. I'm trying to understand where the overflow hose is that will puke oil when the tranny is over filled is located. My harley used to puke oil from the crankcase breather vent when left standing for sometime because the oil would flow out of the bag past the check valve and pool in the crankcase. Since none of the bikes in question share oil with the tranny and crank, how and where does this overfill purge as you suggested?

 

[RickSA]

It runs up under the seat to the airbox, so that when you go riding through water the contracting of the air in the gearbox doesn't suck in water. If u do overfill logic says that with the oil expanding from the heat and it being splashed up there, and if its that over full then it will force the excess out the gearbox breather into the airbox.

You being paranoid! No damage can come from it, maybe just a dirty swing arm from the oil that's leaking out of the gearbox into the airbox and onto your frame.

I run a bit over 1L of synthetic 20W50 to keep the rattle down a bit! Have never had a problem or oil overflow! Spoke to many a Kawa dealer and they all say that we don't need the expensive 10W40 with our riding conditions here in SA. Maybe something to look into if you don't live in a too hot or too cold a climate!

Hope that helps!
Rick

 

[BigRedAF]

I think there is some miss communication, the hose that comes of the fitting you are reffering to runs up under the seat. I have overfilled my tranny more than once and never had oil purging from it. I'm trying to understand where the overflow hose is that will puke oil when the tranny is over filled is located. My harley used to puke oil from the crankcase breather vent when left standing for sometime because the oil would flow out of the bag past the check valve and pool in the crankcase. Since none of the bikes in question share oil with the tranny and crank, how and where does this overfill purge as you suggested?

As noted by others and suggested by me. Your hose routing is to prevent water from entering your cases when or if you cross a creek / deep water while doing what KDX's are intended to do. MX bikes just vent this hose to the back of the engine and down or into the airbox depending on manufacturer.

Since all bikes do this I assumed that the KDX did as well. If you over fill most bikes and ride them tranny oil will come out of the vent hose. Now that I know the routing of your bike I understand why oil doesn't come out, your vent exits higher than your fill hole.

The O.P. asked if over filling would cause hard starting, the answer is no. This should wrap things up.

To bad your Harley dropped oil, the newer Twin Cam design is holding up well. This design vents the crank via both valve covers to the air box backing plate so the fumes go back through the combustion process. I imagine this is a EPA issue. This configuration also causes a slight vacuum and relieves internal pressure helping to prevent leaky gaskets.

I was ready to post and had to make sure that there is no other form of crank vent on the Harley so we wouldn't have to travel down that road together. Even though I have installed five big bore kits, three sets of cams and one 103 stroker crank on mine and several friends bikes in the past few months your persistence forced my to go out in the garage and take a look. I'm happy to say that the two vents come from the rocker box / valve cover area as I mentioned previously. The tranny does have a 90 degree elbow and rubber vent hose coming out of the top cover.

 

[ridejunky]

As noted by others and suggested by me. Your hose routing is to prevent water from entering your cases when or if you cross a creek / deep water while doing what KDX's are intended to do. MX bikes just vent this hose to the back of the engine and down or into the airbox depending on manufacturer.

Since all bikes do this I assumed that the KDX did as well. If you over fill most bikes and ride them tranny oil will come out of the vent hose. Now that I know the routing of your bike I understand why oil doesn't come out, your vent exits higher than your fill hole.

The O.P. asked if over filling would cause hard starting, the answer is no. This should wrap things up.

To bad your Harley dropped oil, the newer Twin Cam design is holding up well. This design vents the crank via both valve covers to the air box backing plate so the fumes go back through the combustion process. I imagine this is a EPA issue. This configuration also causes a slight vacuum and relieves internal pressure helping to prevent leaky gaskets.

I was ready to post and had to make sure that there is no other form of crank vent on the Harley so we wouldn't have to travel down that road together. Even though I have installed five big bore kits, three sets of cams and one 103 stroker crank on mine and several friends bikes in the past few months your persistence forced my to go out in the garage and take a look. I'm happy to say that the two vents come from the rocker box / valve cover area as I mentioned previously. The tranny does have a 90 degree elbow and rubber vent hose coming out of the top cover.

Mine was really old(75) and notorious for this problem. behind the oil pressure sending unit was a check valve(ball) and the seat would become worn so the oil would drain past and into the crank case. Fixing was a hassle. I found that starting it up once a week would recirculate the oil back into the bag. if left to sit starting, was laborious and oil (alot) would blow out of the vent tube behind the generator(yes it was that archaic) onto the garage floor.