Terrorism
- Thread starter JoeAverage
- Start date
I must not be completely daft, Pat Burroughs seems to be on the same page.
and you better be in your mid 60's if you're going to refer to a bunch of people you don't know (especially me) as kids.
Editing this again --- yes, Brass f-ing balls! Anyone who gets up in the morning, has breakfast, drives to the airport to with a couple other guys so that they can hijack a plane, stab people to death, and then fly that plane into a building is not lacking commitment. If the idea of "If everything goes as planned we all be dead" sounds like a coward to you, then get next to this idea - this is your enemy and he does not have that word in his vocabulary. So why don't you try to come up with something useful to say instead of babbling about what's wrong with "the kids".
How about some facts then Mr. History?
and you better be in your mid 60's if you're going to refer to a bunch of people you don't know (especially me) as kids.
Editing this again --- yes, Brass f-ing balls! Anyone who gets up in the morning, has breakfast, drives to the airport to with a couple other guys so that they can hijack a plane, stab people to death, and then fly that plane into a building is not lacking commitment. If the idea of "If everything goes as planned we all be dead" sounds like a coward to you, then get next to this idea - this is your enemy and he does not have that word in his vocabulary. So why don't you try to come up with something useful to say instead of babbling about what's wrong with "the kids".
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Jaybird, while I agree with some or most of your points, I don't agree on the cowardice/brass balls thing. The terrorists made the ultimate sacrifice by giving their life to their cause. Taking over a plane full of people with a homemade knife? Yes, this took brass balls, and the planning took a lot of patience. These are some very smart, clever, and extremely misguided people.
The real cowards are the guys that sat in a bunker somewhere overseas and watched as their puppets carried out the evil mission. And also the governments who support (financially and otherwise) this kind of terror, but won't admit to it.
The real cowards are the guys that sat in a bunker somewhere overseas and watched as their puppets carried out the evil mission. And also the governments who support (financially and otherwise) this kind of terror, but won't admit to it.
Pat Burroughs
Member
- Sep 10, 1999
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Au contraire, monsieur. Being on the same page as me generally means you are daft.
:D
MoO_coW
Member
- Jul 14, 2000
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No offence but I think you need to go get your head checked...because it isn't working right I don't think! Taking on a plane full of scared unarmed people didn't take any guts, and flying a plane into a building full of unsuspecting citizens was down right spineless.
- Oct 13, 1999
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Rogue - I'm not sure you understand the ramifications of a nuclear strike in the Middle East. Have you ever seen the pictures from Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Well, multiply that scene all over the Middle East, South Eastern Europe, Western Indo-China, North Eastern Africa, etc., etc. Not only will these places be leveled, there will be absolutely no living creatures for millions of square miles. Everything will be gone. Radiation fallout will affect the entire planet for years and make it's way into our food-chain. Dust clouds will block out the sun and screw up the entire eco-system for many, many years!
I'm not some peace-preaching, no-nukes, granola eating hippie-freak either. I've worked in the nuclear industry. Both in power generation and vessel propulsion. It is still the cleanest source of energy in the entire world. However, if you don't respect it's power, you can easily destroy the world too.
Anyway, I'm not trying to preach to you. I just thought you'd might like to know how powerful a modern nuclear arsenal is. After all this is America and everyone has a right to express their own opinion. It's called freedom.
BTW - The CIA supplied arms, training and money to Afghanistan during their war with the Soviet Union. Where do you think bin Laden got his military training? That's right, good ol' Uncle Sam! At least we didn't teach him all of our tricks. ;)
Johnrock
Member
MoO, you absolutely nailed it.
Just because you are old does not necessarily make you wise.
Crediting those responsible with bravery, aka "brass balls" makes me sick.
Committed to a heinous cause, maybe, but the "brass balls" and bravery deservedly go to the firefighters, police, and volunteers risking their lives day & night in New York City.
My country, my opinion, my right.
Just because you are old does not necessarily make you wise.
Crediting those responsible with bravery, aka "brass balls" makes me sick.
Committed to a heinous cause, maybe, but the "brass balls" and bravery deservedly go to the firefighters, police, and volunteers risking their lives day & night in New York City.
My country, my opinion, my right.
I don't want you to think that I admire the terrorists. There are a lot of ways to describe them, and the horror of their actions. I just don't think there was any lack of balls there.
A firefighter or policeman goes to work everyday knowing that they may not every see their wife and family again. These guys KNEW they would die, one way or the other.
Some people don't even have the "balls" to ever go up in a plane.
I guess it depends on the definition of coward, and balls.
In the end, it doesn't really matter, it is what it is. The main point is that these people we are dealing with are very clever, patient, stubborn, and dedicated to their twisted cause.
I don't believe the word "courage" is limited to people doing positive things.
A firefighter or policeman goes to work everyday knowing that they may not every see their wife and family again. These guys KNEW they would die, one way or the other.
Some people don't even have the "balls" to ever go up in a plane.
I guess it depends on the definition of coward, and balls.
In the end, it doesn't really matter, it is what it is. The main point is that these people we are dealing with are very clever, patient, stubborn, and dedicated to their twisted cause.
I don't believe the word "courage" is limited to people doing positive things.
HiG4s
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- Mar 7, 2001
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The person (and I use the term loosely) that organized these events, what ever the cause, is a sick, twisted, rabbid individual and must be destroyed. Nothing personal, just needs to be done.
Getting to this animal should not be used as an excuse to attack the Talibin (SP?) government, they have commited enough crimes against human rights to be attacked on their own merit. This group believes that women are subhuman and have been know to sanction beating to death women that try to teach their daughters to read and write, they have cut the lips off of women that defy them by wearing lipstick. They imprisoned all women that held professional positions when they took over. They gave an 18 year old girl over 100 lashes with a steel cable because she had admitted to having pre-martial sex, even though the ADMISSION was reporting she had been raped to the police.
As far as the comment someone made of not having sympthy for those cheering in the streets. It is difficult, but remember most of these people have never heard anything,virtually their whole lives, that their govenrment didn't tell them. From the information they have been told they just don't know any better.
Getting to this animal should not be used as an excuse to attack the Talibin (SP?) government, they have commited enough crimes against human rights to be attacked on their own merit. This group believes that women are subhuman and have been know to sanction beating to death women that try to teach their daughters to read and write, they have cut the lips off of women that defy them by wearing lipstick. They imprisoned all women that held professional positions when they took over. They gave an 18 year old girl over 100 lashes with a steel cable because she had admitted to having pre-martial sex, even though the ADMISSION was reporting she had been raped to the police.
As far as the comment someone made of not having sympthy for those cheering in the streets. It is difficult, but remember most of these people have never heard anything,virtually their whole lives, that their govenrment didn't tell them. From the information they have been told they just don't know any better.
MontanaMemos
Member
- Mar 8, 2000
- 6
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So much ugliness in the world, even at this site sometimes. We are surely in for some difficult times ahead and we should try and come together as a country, this means listening with an open mind and respecting different people's beliefs. There are many Atheist and Christians who live life to their fullest, contibute to society, and are happy.
It is my hope that we have the winning combination of people in our goverment right now to find the right people and stop them. I believe that there has to be some people over in those countries who are not happy with what has happened and hopefully they will not be in the line of fire.
What scares me is someone is planning or already planned something worse than what happened on 9/11. We must fight for our freedom now! Remember, our diversity is what makes us so great, those cowards just can't understand this and our way of life.
It is my hope that we have the winning combination of people in our goverment right now to find the right people and stop them. I believe that there has to be some people over in those countries who are not happy with what has happened and hopefully they will not be in the line of fire.
What scares me is someone is planning or already planned something worse than what happened on 9/11. We must fight for our freedom now! Remember, our diversity is what makes us so great, those cowards just can't understand this and our way of life.
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Cpt. Jack, you are correct...I should have included adults with less than a clue.
- Jun 15, 2001
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As regards whether or not to use nuclear weaponry, I think it depends upon who we think the enemy is. I really think it's that simple.
I'm surprised others haven't mentioned this (and maybe they have), but if we go in and just nuke Afghanistan, where will we be then? Think about it. What do we do next? If we wipe our hands clean, call it good, pack our bags and get the hell out of there, we STILL wouldn't know if Bin Laden's dead or alive, and wouldn't have done anything to his worldwide terrorist network. We would have accomplished nothing, except vengeful annihilation. Even if we left it there, that wouldn't be too bad, but there will also be a MAJOR loss of allies with something like that because of our taking of many more lives than they did ours AND we would have poisoned the entire middle east, ALLIES and ALL. Then we would never find Bin Laden, never knowing if he snuck out somewhere and relocated...never.
I am embarassed to say that I myself, would have no problem nuking the place from a personal, vengeful point of view. I'm not proud of that. But "objectively" and from a military standpoint, we would have gotten nowhere AND risked a nuclear retaliation.
On the other hand, I feel VERY FEARFUL of what WILL happen. I dread what IS going to happen, and that's basically camping out in their hills, spilling a lot of American blood, getting "gorilla warfared" to death, huge loss of lives, the whole bit...:( Guys and gals, get ready for a long war--this thing's going to take at least 5 years to accomplish. Also, get ready for a grinding, bloody war and a HUGE loss of American lives.
I can't believe this. I just can't believe it. This is going to drag out into another controversial bloody war. At least there is now a target and a "purpose", although vague. Afghanistan, my friends, is NOT the only enemy.
I'll shut up now.
I'm surprised others haven't mentioned this (and maybe they have), but if we go in and just nuke Afghanistan, where will we be then? Think about it. What do we do next? If we wipe our hands clean, call it good, pack our bags and get the hell out of there, we STILL wouldn't know if Bin Laden's dead or alive, and wouldn't have done anything to his worldwide terrorist network. We would have accomplished nothing, except vengeful annihilation. Even if we left it there, that wouldn't be too bad, but there will also be a MAJOR loss of allies with something like that because of our taking of many more lives than they did ours AND we would have poisoned the entire middle east, ALLIES and ALL. Then we would never find Bin Laden, never knowing if he snuck out somewhere and relocated...never.
I am embarassed to say that I myself, would have no problem nuking the place from a personal, vengeful point of view. I'm not proud of that. But "objectively" and from a military standpoint, we would have gotten nowhere AND risked a nuclear retaliation.
On the other hand, I feel VERY FEARFUL of what WILL happen. I dread what IS going to happen, and that's basically camping out in their hills, spilling a lot of American blood, getting "gorilla warfared" to death, huge loss of lives, the whole bit...:( Guys and gals, get ready for a long war--this thing's going to take at least 5 years to accomplish. Also, get ready for a grinding, bloody war and a HUGE loss of American lives.
I can't believe this. I just can't believe it. This is going to drag out into another controversial bloody war. At least there is now a target and a "purpose", although vague. Afghanistan, my friends, is NOT the only enemy.
I'll shut up now.
bwalker
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- Jan 10, 2000
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Not to seem like a candy ass, but has anybody thought about the what would happen if the US used nuclear weapons. As far as I am concerned all this drivel about nukes is non sense. THE US WILL NOT USE NUKES UNLESS THEY ARE USED ON US FIRST. BTW The weapons we used on Japan are small peanuts compared with what we have today.
know your enemy
Just a little factoid. The Koran states that a believer of Islam does God a service by killing Christians and Jews. Obviously, you can't say that the terrorrists are a "small faction" if this is one of the tenaments of their religion. I am sure that many of the Islamic faith do not buy into this belief, but it is written in their holiest of books. This is where the root of their fanatical hatred of us comes from.
Just a little factoid. The Koran states that a believer of Islam does God a service by killing Christians and Jews. Obviously, you can't say that the terrorrists are a "small faction" if this is one of the tenaments of their religion. I am sure that many of the Islamic faith do not buy into this belief, but it is written in their holiest of books. This is where the root of their fanatical hatred of us comes from.
Not being able to read Arabic, no, I have not "read" it in the Koran. And I guess I should be more accurate, it actually states that to kill those "not of the Islamic faith" is doing God a service. I have a friend that is from an Islamic country, and he tells me that the modern day interpretation of this line is read as "Christians and Jews".
HiG4s
~SPONSOR~
- Mar 7, 2001
- 1,308
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OOPS, I was only 7 hundred years off. But it is interesting that because of my incorrect statment Spanky posted.
"it actually states that to kill those "not of the Islamic faith" is doing God a service. I have a friend that is from an Islamic country, and he tells me that the modern day interpretation of this line is read as "Christians and Jews".
Spanky, you wouldn't be making this up as you go along would you?:think
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The Koran teaches no such thing, spanky. That is quite a statement you have made man. Fundamintilists interpret the Koran to say this, albeit not factual according to many Muslims I've heard and spoken with. These idiots feel they can create "jihad"(or glory to their god and themselves) by killing their enemies. They are taking things out of context. The intent of this teaching was totally a defensive stance, from what I've been told.
Cpt Jack, do you have a leaf cluster around those grunt rifles? If not then you still fit the catagory I spoke of earlier. Amazing a man who has some military training can be so far off on his thinking. You seem to be of those who can't contimplate a war without bounderies. You seem to need a difinitive state to have battle with. This war will be totally unconventional in that respect. Although if defined countries try to aid our enemies, they too will join the enemies ranks, and suffer as well. BTW my President calls them cowards and so should you, Captain.
Our nuclear policy is quite sound folks. You won't have to worry about that unless we are attacked with like weaponry. We also have a vast arsenal of "conventional nuclear" weapons. Like, 109mm howitzer rounds that are shot out of a ground cannon and travel approx. 27 miles before the nuclear explosion. These things are babies in the nuclear world, but we have thousands of these rounds up and ready in most all of the theatres around the world. A man can carry one of these rounds in his arms, yet it will kill every living thing for 3 miles of ground zero instantly. Our enemies know better than to try it. I was in a nuclear capable artillery battalion for a time during my military service and held a top secret security clearance, and STILL wasn't told everything, but I can assure you the US policy on these items is very sound. It's been years since I was in the military, but when I left, the US had in Europe alone over 500 artillery battery's capable of firing small nuclear rounds.
Cpt Jack, do you have a leaf cluster around those grunt rifles? If not then you still fit the catagory I spoke of earlier. Amazing a man who has some military training can be so far off on his thinking. You seem to be of those who can't contimplate a war without bounderies. You seem to need a difinitive state to have battle with. This war will be totally unconventional in that respect. Although if defined countries try to aid our enemies, they too will join the enemies ranks, and suffer as well. BTW my President calls them cowards and so should you, Captain.
Our nuclear policy is quite sound folks. You won't have to worry about that unless we are attacked with like weaponry. We also have a vast arsenal of "conventional nuclear" weapons. Like, 109mm howitzer rounds that are shot out of a ground cannon and travel approx. 27 miles before the nuclear explosion. These things are babies in the nuclear world, but we have thousands of these rounds up and ready in most all of the theatres around the world. A man can carry one of these rounds in his arms, yet it will kill every living thing for 3 miles of ground zero instantly. Our enemies know better than to try it. I was in a nuclear capable artillery battalion for a time during my military service and held a top secret security clearance, and STILL wasn't told everything, but I can assure you the US policy on these items is very sound. It's been years since I was in the military, but when I left, the US had in Europe alone over 500 artillery battery's capable of firing small nuclear rounds.
Like all books on religion I would think the Koran is left to 'interpretation'... I'm sure there are some statements in there that could be taken out of context and used to make some of these people believe what they are doing is right.. after all some white supremacists still quote the Bible (their interpretation) as saying that Whites are dominant over all other flavors :D !!
And as for the terrorists having balls.. big, brass ones. That's a hoot!!! Big, brass balls is something you have when you do back flips on a dirtbike or jump the grand canyon on a homemade rocket with wheels not when you commandeer an airplane full of innocent passengers into a building full of innocent people. Balls.. hmmpf sounds like a bunch of p...ies to me.
And as for the terrorists having balls.. big, brass ones. That's a hoot!!! Big, brass balls is something you have when you do back flips on a dirtbike or jump the grand canyon on a homemade rocket with wheels not when you commandeer an airplane full of innocent passengers into a building full of innocent people. Balls.. hmmpf sounds like a bunch of p...ies to me.
Wolf
doooode
- Jul 31, 2000
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All this talk about the fundamentals of the Koran directed me towards the following thought:
Bare with me for a minute.
There are 4 million muslims living in Germany. The Muslim population here has to be in the double digits. They do understand the Koran and they are, after all, the ones that fled their country because of their beliefs.
Shoudn't they be willing to fight for their freedom? I guess what I am trying to say is this:
After bin Laden gets x-ed (in order to help the healing process of a mourning civilized wolrd) why not utilize those that condemm their countries fundamentalits the most? The root of the cause is not one guy. For every bin Laden we take out, there will be 10 in line to take his spot.
So make this fight their fight. Fight Muslims with Muslims (please do not read religious extremism into this!!)
Pakistan has long had an open "bill" with Afghanistan, they are just waiting for their chance to settle it.
Way off base?
And no guys, you can't just nuke them, unless you want the LAST WAR which by the way would be extremely short.
Bare with me for a minute.
There are 4 million muslims living in Germany. The Muslim population here has to be in the double digits. They do understand the Koran and they are, after all, the ones that fled their country because of their beliefs.
Shoudn't they be willing to fight for their freedom? I guess what I am trying to say is this:
After bin Laden gets x-ed (in order to help the healing process of a mourning civilized wolrd) why not utilize those that condemm their countries fundamentalits the most? The root of the cause is not one guy. For every bin Laden we take out, there will be 10 in line to take his spot.
So make this fight their fight. Fight Muslims with Muslims (please do not read religious extremism into this!!)
Pakistan has long had an open "bill" with Afghanistan, they are just waiting for their chance to settle it.
Way off base?
And no guys, you can't just nuke them, unless you want the LAST WAR which by the way would be extremely short.
Jaybird... the nuke rounds are fired from the 8" gun. The two main artillery pieces are the 155 and 8". If I'm not mistaken the 109 is a tank gun. Kinda lost track the newer stuff, but my job in the Army was (13F10) Forward Observer (HHB, 1st 20th FA, Fort Carson, attached to the 4th Inf. Div. Mechanized). I located targets and called artillery, close-air (typically A10s & Cobras) and naval gunfire. Never did get the chance to target for navel fire.
I've complained about being "old" for plenty of other reasons, this week is another. Back when we made the failed attempt to rescue the hostages from Iran, my unit was scrambled, we sat on the tarmac in a fully loaded C-130. We didn't know why, didn't really care. All we knew was we were issued desert cammo, and REALLY wanted to go. To a man. You can bet that same feeling is high in the military right now, more so than even Desert Storm.
Sorry, I digress...
I've complained about being "old" for plenty of other reasons, this week is another. Back when we made the failed attempt to rescue the hostages from Iran, my unit was scrambled, we sat on the tarmac in a fully loaded C-130. We didn't know why, didn't really care. All we knew was we were issued desert cammo, and REALLY wanted to go. To a man. You can bet that same feeling is high in the military right now, more so than even Desert Storm.
Sorry, I digress...
- Oct 13, 1999
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Nukes
Small or large, I don't want to be checking my food and water for radiation contamination, for the next 50 years.
However, I think we're smart enough not to use them. As Bush put it the other day "I'm not launching a $2M missle at a $10 tent in the desert only to hit a camel in the butt!"
Small or large, I don't want to be checking my food and water for radiation contamination, for the next 50 years.
However, I think we're smart enough not to use them. As Bush put it the other day "I'm not launching a $2M missle at a $10 tent in the desert only to hit a camel in the butt!"