Thurston Co Orv Park

[Tod]

The possibility exists to re-open the Thurson Co ORV Park, but in my opinion the conditions imposed by the county on the state (and our orv funds) are way over the top. One of the big issues is Thurston County owes the orv fund $2.1M if the place does not re-open, they want that waived if the state (our orv funds) opens it, assumes all liability and runs it for the county. If the park closed again (it would) the county would owe zip. Please tell the IAC (Interagency Committee for Outdoor recreation) that this is not OK, the county took the money must be held responsible. If we hold the county's feet (via the IAC) to the fire, we can get the place re-opened and keep that $2.1M obligation held over their head to keep it open.

Here's an article from the Olympia paper:

HEATHER WOODWARD THE OLYMPIAN

Ed Bushnell misses racing his motorcycle and riding on the wooded trails at Thurston County's now closed Off-Road Vehicle Sports Park. But a letter from the state to the county that was released Monday gives Bushnell hope the park -- which the Thurston County Commission voted 2-1 to shut down because of financial and safety concerns in November 2002 -- might reopen. The letter outlines ways the state might meet many of the county's demands for reviving the park. Bushnell now is optimistic that the park might reopen, possibly in time for the 2004 summer season. "I'm hoping that's realistic because we've lost one season already, and it's going to be hard to get users back and events back," said Bushnell, a 44-year-old Lynnwood resident. "I think it's a positive step." However, ORV enthusiasts still face hurdles. Some residents who live nearby object to the park's resurrection. And the commission, which ultimately will decide the park's fate, remains divided on the issue. The state Interagency Committee for Outdoor Recreation (IAC) provided the county about $2.1 million in capital facilities grants to the 155-acre park since the 1970s. The state wants to either recoup the grant money or reopen the park, which drew 33,000 off-road vehicle users in 2002. County and state officials have failed to reach an agreement about the issue during the past year. Last month, the commissioners issued a list of eight demands that county officials said the state must agree to before they would consider reopening the park. The state's response to those demands was released Monday. The county wants the state to assume complete liability for the park's operations, to guarantee ongoing grant funding and to waive the county's future repayment of any grants should the park close permanently. The county's list also requires the state to ensure there will be adequate funding for park security and management. The state's response says the Interagency Committee might consider most of the county's requirements. The main exception is the county's wish to transfer park liability to the state, which is not within the committee's control. However, the committee might consider paying for the county's insurance and administrative costs related to park liability. The letter also says the committee is open to allotting more money each year to the county for park expenses. "I think from the very beginning, the IAC has tried to express to the county that it was flexible, that it wanted to work through those issues and that it did not see any insurmountable hurdles," said Kaleen Cottingham, the Olympia facilitator working on the issue. "I think the county just wanted to see those details in writing." Donald Krupp, Thurston County chief administrative officer, said commission work sessions during the next two weeks should help the county determine its next step. However, Krupp said, he was encouraged by the state's position. "I think it's a good-faith response," he said. "I think there are probably a couple of key issues that might require further clarification before the board is prepared to respond." Sixteen miles west of Olympia on state Route 8, the park is in a wooded area bordering Capitol State Forest and Mox Chehalis Creek. It was one of few parks of its kind in Washington. Bill Willis, who has lived near the park for about 40 years, was glad when it closed because it brought a welcome quiet to the area surrounding his home. "Noise control is basically a myth," he said in a written statement to the county commission. Bushnell said the Northwest Outdoor Coalition wants to address such concerns by converting park land closest to neighbors like Willis into a campground and installing other sound buffers, such as trees. Heather Woodward covers Thurston County and the city of Tumwater for The Olympian. She can be reached at 360-754-5435 or hwoodward@olympia.gannett.com.

 

[Hondaxrguy]

When I first read that article, I wasn't sure if they were talking about not having to pay back future grants, or all grants past and future. I guess they're trying to pull one over our heads. You can be sure if they know they have no consequences to closing the park that they will.


Jeremy

 

[HobRoff]

Well at least there are negotiations going on - that in itself is positive. All the input we as users can supply will be vital. The noise issue will be important - Washougal is facing possible shutdown over noise. Thurston ORV could use some redesign as was suggested in the article. Fees will have to be increased to cover not only insurance but more of the operational costs as well. Spokane is able to make a profit and is still under ten dollars for a day of riding, I think a $10 bill should be the cap but willing to work towards $15, maybe an annual membership - something like a YMCA. Gotta stay on top of this and see if we can be open by this summer!!

 

[fishhead]

any update on this such as how the meeting went.

 

[Tod]

any update on this such as how the meeting went.

Hope someone has been watching this. I'm stuck in Paris until next week :uh:

 

[vern#19]

thurston ORV Meeting

Very Important meeting Monday

 

[fishhead]

warm up the keys and send some messages

Here is the latest. Note the opponents don't have much concern for facts or truth.

Please take the time to write to the commisioners and support the park.



----- Original Message -----
From: EBushLBush@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 11:14 PM
Subject: ORV Needs your help "NOW" Please Read


Below are several letters sent to the county commissioners the one at the bottom of the page is a letter sent to "JAN" a writer from the Tacoma News Tribune.

"you probably need to start gathering the troops to give some
accurate information on this..."

Please write letter in favor of the ORV park to the following e-mail addresses:
Heather Woodward, The Olympian; The Olympian; hwoodward@olympia.gannett.com
Jen Graves, Tacoma News Tribune; jen.graves@mail.tribnet.com
Steve Dunkelberger, Managing Editor, Assistant The Business Examiner Editor Steve Dunkelberger sdunkel@BusinessExaminer.com

The Business Examiner;
Terry Knight, The Sitting Duck tknightvision@aol.com
"Steve Willis" stevenl@olynet.c
"Susan Willis" swillis@tctv.net
Bill & Jeanette Willis


FROM: Ed Bushnell North West Outdoor Coalition President
The "Willis" Neihbor to the Thurson County ORV are now using dirty tactics to pressur on the commissioner on the progress to getting Thurston County ORV back in operation.

Here is a letter I sent to JAN at the Tacoma News Tribune

Jan,
I have read two letter that your friend Bryan Wills has sent to the county commissioners.
I am writing you to inform you that there are misleading statements in his letter.

To introduce my shelf My name is Ed Bushnell.
My titles include: President of the North West Outdoor Coalition (formally know as the "Thurston County ORV Advisory committee")
Competition manager for American motorcycle Association District 27 (Washington State).
User of the ORV sport park for over 20 years.
Father of a family who has used the park for the past 11 years.
Lets start at the beging of what has transpired.
In Nov of 2002 the county commissioner voted to close the park the vote was two in favor and one opposed to closing Thurston County ORV sports park. The two commissioner who voted to close the park were commissioner Sullivan (who is no longer in office) and commissioner Wolff. the commissioner in favor of the park is Commissioner Oberquell.

The reason sated at the time for closuer of the park were:
1. Envoromential issues
2. Financial
3. Risk & liability

Item 1. There were complaints that the run off from the park was putting silt into the Mox
Challis Creek.
Root cause: Logging has been done above the park on both hill just above the park.
Yes, the run off was coming thorough the park and into the Creak (record rains in the summer of 2001)
The County applied for a grant to build retention ponds to control the run off from the park.
The grant was approved from the IAC (NOVA Funding) as a capital improvement to the ORV Park.
The retention ponds have been built and are working. IAC grants require that you do the work than once completed the IAC will reinburst the
County. The funds that funded this project came from the ORV park funds. Never has any Thurston County general funds been used in the
Operation of the ORV sport park. The NWOC has received a letter from the dept. of Ecology stating that there has not been any issues with the run
off into the creek and the retention ponds are in operation doing their job. Just a not the project still is in need of a cross over tube to be installed
which will make the project 100% complete.

Item 2. Financial issues: The County stated that is was costing the county to much to run the Park.
Just a little history on Thurston County Parks. When the ORV park was established there was no Parks dept. in Thurston County.
The ORV park is what has supported the parks dept. and made it what it is today.
In NO time in the history of the ORV park has there ever been any money used from the general fund to support the park.
When the commissioner voted to close the park they were misinformed on the fact.
The gross revenue at the gate for the 2002 record year was $192,000.
The county also receives Maintenance and Operation (M&O) grants from the IAC (NOVA Funding) for 200,000 Biannually.
Any major improvement grants come from the IAC and are a competitive bid in the grant process.
There were 32,000 people used the park in 2002 the last year of its operation.
The Department of Trade and Economic Developments shows that the Avg. daily spending per person using public
Camping is $37 per day. vAdd this to the 200,000.00 per year ORV park budget that was spent in the local economy
each year and you get almost 1.5 million dollars in the economic revenue generated by the ORV park last year alone.
Between the five motorcycle dealers in Thurston County they did an estimated $30 Million dollars in total sales for the year 2003
Residents of Thurston County purchased from the dealers a total 1954 motorcycles and ATV's in 2003.
This equates to $18 million dollars in sales for those 1954 units sold in Thurston County.
What was very evident from these reports is the loss of business in the off Road or dirt bike segments.
In the year 2002 they sold 446 dirt bikes in Thurston County. This was a 13.2% increase over 2001.
In the year 2003 they sold 443 dirt bikes in Thurston County This was a decline of . 07%.
Now you may say this was due to economy or the war, but it was not.
The rest of our state enjoyed an increase of 9.8% in dirt Bike sales in 2003

Item 3. Risk & liability: In the letter from Mr. Willis He is Quoted in a statement "I was also astounded to learn the County is responsible
for up to $250,000 to defend EACH AND EVERY COURT CASE"
This is the County's deductible.
This means that if you are driving on a county road and you feel that the county is at fault the county will have to pay the first $250,000
If you sue and the County loses. Same as if you are walking into the County Court house and a limb was to fall from a tree and strike you.
If you sue the county and they losses they will pay the first $250,000 than the county risk pool would pick up the balance up to 20 Mil.
Which is the cap of the county risk pool If you sue for over 20 mil the county will have to also pick up the tab.
No were have we said that the county is going to pay the insurance for the ORV park.
Just to get the record straight the ORV has been paying for their own insurance
We also have been paying 75% of all the Thurston County parks Dept. park insurance
The rest of the acusation from Mr. Willias about user only camping and not using local business are all faults statement
And the comments of "The big winners here have always been the professional race promoters and sales reps.
Thurston County money supports a facility primarily used by out-of-county and out-of-state users".
This is a family park used by off road users. There was more money generated by day use than promoters

Let's look at the new sports complex in Lacey that the county is supporting. Skate board parks? Risk, Liailiby?
The County has committed to paying $125,000 a year out of the general fund to support this complex.

Please get both sides of the story not one side from neighbors who live just feet off Hwy. 8

Thank you for you time.

Please feel free to call or send me a note:
Ed Bushnell
425-745-4010
ebushlbush@aol.com





















Fwd: Fw: ORV Park - Jen Graves, Tacoma News Tribune






Hi Walt,

Could you forward Shawn's e-mail address?

The County Commissioners are preparing to make a pitch to the IAC regarding ORV funding.
I think the tax-paying public would be astounded to learn Diane Oberquelle is even considering
committing the County to paying exorbitant insurance fees for a high-risk facility in which so many people have been severely injured. The County is currently defending a lawsuit from the family of a man who died at the ORV Park.

I was also astounded to learn the County is responsible for up to $250,000 to defend EACH AND EVERY COURT CASE. Many of these cases involve minors and, according to Tammy Devlin, County Risk Analyst, the statute of limitations will not run out for years even if the park never reopens. Win or lose, the County could be on the hook for $250,000 for each case. These expenses are not covered by insurance (the deductible kicks in after $250,000). This means we could, in fact, be on the hook for millions of dollars.

Last week I attended a County meeting where the subject was discussed. A lawyer from the Prosecutor's Office reported that the County had already spent between $50,000 and $100,000 on the case involving a recent death at the ORV Park. The case is still pending.

Sadly, this was not the first death at the Park. And it doesn't take a prophet to make the sad prediction that if the Park reopens more people will be severely injured and, unfortunately, it's highly likely more deaths will occur.

It gave me an uneasy feeling to hear County officials ask: "What will a death cost the County?" "What will a severe injury to a minor cost the County?" I realize that's the reality of the situation. However, I highly doubt most Thurston County taxpayers want to support the ORV Park with County money--particularly if they're aware of the ongoing costs involved.

I want to be sure to point out that Commissioner Cathy Wolfe was clear in her opposition to rushing forward with any proposal. I've followed her career in the Legislature for many years and I'm overjoyed to see her continue to serve so well as a Commissioner. Members of the Parks Board, Planning, Michael Welter and County Staff were also providing excellent information of the costs and potential liabilities and dangers of reopening the park. Also, I know Bob Macleod to be a man of intelligence and integrity. However, we've heard rumblings from the Grays Harbor Commissioners that the park will eventually reopen, without fanfare, at a later date.

The fact that Commissioner Oberquell is pushing to move forward with a proposal without knowing the costs of Insurance (or the cost of full-time staff for on-site enforcement of state noise laws) is disturbing to neighbors of the Park because it follows an ugly trend established years ago.

The County approved the purchase of over $100,000 worth of lights for night racing. They were used once and then removed when neighbors organized, hired William Cullen, and took their case to a County Hearings Examiner (neighbors are prepared to hire Mr. Cullen again should the Park reopen and fail to enforce state sound restrictions and hours of operation).

The County also pushed forward by constructing a drag strip for nitro-powered sand dragsters.

These machines (again, the vast majority of users were from far outside the otherwise quiet confines of Thurston County) could be heard clearly in Summit Lake--four miles away--and were in direct violation of RCW 46.09 (86 db. at 50 ft.). Their tenure at the Park was short-lived. The dragstrip was demolished.

Build now: find out if it's legal later. Find out what it costs later. Find out if area residents will organize and hire a lawyer--later.

The big winners here have always been the professional race promoters and sales reps. Thurston County money supports a facility primarily used by out-of-county and out-of-state users. These are people who camp at the Park and leave. They don't stay in area hotels or go shopping in downtown Olympia. They do frequent the Capital Medical Center Emergency Room and, potentially, the Thurston County Courthouse. That's bad business, bad use of County funds, bad ethics, injured kids, dead users, high insurance, and a consistent record of violating RCW 46.09 as well as posted hours of operation (The Sheriff refuses to enforce the law and Park Managers are on record in reporting they are helpless--and sometimes intimidated--when it comes to enforcing state law and posted park rules). They're bad neighbors.

One must ask--who's making money here?

Public dollars--specifically County Tax Dollars--supporting out-of-county, private promoters, private equipment dealers, and out-of-county users at a potentially crippling (no pun intended) cost.

That's right in Shawn's wheel house.

Walt, you and I have discussed public access to public lands many times. We both know there's a real need for additional public parks for residents here in Thurston County. This land could be used for activities which could be enjoyed by more people who live right here. And those activities wouldn't necessarily have to be life-threatening or high maintenance.

Even if the County had to pay back money granted by the IAC (which is definitely not a forgone conclusion), Thurston County would come out in superior financial shape by selling the land; it would become an ongoing source of tax revenue. Not to mention the lack of insurance, legal fees, labor, etc., etc. The Park has always operated at a loss; Park fees don't begin to cover expenses. I'd like to see that money (and over the years we're talking about millions of dollars) dedicated to a Park for Thurston County residents.

At Diane's urging, the Commissioners will be discussing the insurance issue in greater detail in Executive Session (sound familiar?).

At any rate, I'd like to talk about all this the next time I see you at the station. Congratulations on the tremendous success of your lawsuit against the city. As expected, your legal efforts were consistently dismissed in such a public fashion by so many public officials. Until the end, of course. Well done.

Best Wishes Always,
Bryan Willis
754-2818

cc: Thurston County Commissioners Macleod, Wolfe & Oberquell; Heather Woodward, The Olympian; Jen Graves, Tacoma News Tribune; Steve Dunkelberger, Managing Editor, The Business Examiner; Terry Knight, The Sitting Duck; Steve Willis; Susan Willis; Bill & Jeanette Willis

 

[HobRoff]

Fishhead, truly appreciate the effort but, and I am guilty of the same thing, I think it would help to run a spelling and grammar check. I know how it is when the blood gets up and and the fingers start pounding away and I always have to remind myself to run a check before I hit the send key. Keep up the good work :thumb:

 

[fishhead]

So HobRoff you just correcting my grammer and word usage or did you do something useful, like get on board the issue?

 

[HobRoff]

I couldn't attend last Monday's meeting but was at the meeting last spring where you, I think it was you anyway, gave the presentation. And I have sent mail to the Commissioners, only Ms Oberquell seems receptive though. I wish we, the users could just buy the park somehow but that's a pipe dream. My hope is to see it open by this summer so I am being as pro-active as possible while working out a state at the same time. Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers, I am use to having my wife edit my stuff. Cheers!

 

[Tod]

It's Ed Bushnell, not Fishhead that needs to use a spell checker. Ed's effort is quite admirable, but our enemies love to use this kind of stuff to make us look like a bunch of illiterate fools.

 

[fishhead]

I couldn't attend last Monday's meeting but was at the meeting last spring where you, I think it was you anyway, gave the presentation. And I have sent mail to the Commissioners, only Ms Oberquell seems receptive though. I wish we, the users could just buy the park somehow but that's a pipe dream. My hope is to see it open by this summer so I am being as pro-active as possible while working out a state at the same time. Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers, I am use to having my wife edit my stuff. Cheers!

 

[fishhead]

No offense taken. I hope the IAC pushes the issue of reimbursment for the monies recieved by the county. The neighbor Willis is pushing for the closure since he is trying to sell lots on his subdivided parcel. Nothing altruistic he is in it for the money. This is the guy who is spreading the lies to the commisioners about the costs and liability issues.

 

[HobRoff]

Could we buy it? I would gladly pitch in a $1000 towards wresting control/ownership from the County who act as though they would like to wash their hands of it anyway - get a thousand users pitching in a $1000 bucks - that's a million! get some industry and dealer donations, maybe a grant or two, who knows.

I see this in the Timber industry fairly often, a group comes in and buys up a sensitive area, ya wanna save it - buy it.

It would take a lot of effort, the forming of a group, many frustrating meetings - and in the end the County or the adjoining neighbors could make it unaffordable but it may be feasible.

With the future of Washougal now uncertain it's loss will have a significant impact

 

[MXP1MP]

Hey hob you gonna be down at the washougal practic? Not sure what day gonna go like to hit up both days never such a thing as too much washougal. There might be a new indoor track soon in battleground sounds pretty kewl.

 

[HobRoff]

Hey hob you gonna be down at the washougal practic? Not sure what day gonna go like to hit up both days never such a thing as too much washougal. There might be a new indoor track soon in battleground sounds pretty kewl.

I'm a hopin to make it, things should be kinda slack for me by then. Was plannin on being over at EddieVille Easter weekend for sure and maybe even entering in the Worcs event the 27th and 28th of this month, I'd be in the Old, fat and slow class!! Just got the bike back up and running - did the EG 265 and have been tuning it in and have some heat cycles on it but only about ten minutes saddle time. Need to finish breaking it in and see if the jetting is dialed in.

No doubt on the never enough Washougal - you know the track has hardly changed in 25 years, I first rode there in '77 and it always is a hoot. Last time there though it got pretty rowdy and there were several fractures - ambulances comin and goin- and then I ran right over some guy, I thought for sure I hurt him but he got up and pushed the bike off the track, four of us went over one of the jumps at the same time and he went down right in front of me, nothing I could do but hold the line or else go down myself - that was scary. Anyway, Yep I hope to be there in the 40+ class

 

[Tod]

The Interagency Committee for Outdoor Recreation has scheduled it's regular spring business meeting for April 1 and 2.
On the agenda for the morning half of April 2 is a discussion of the options relating to the Thurston County ORV park.

Location:

IAC business meeting
Room 172
Natural Resources Building
Olympia, WA

Info contact: info@iac.wa.gov[/email] ] [email]info@iac.wa.gov[/email]

 

[Tod]

Update

:| The Thurston County Commisioners have sent a letter yesterday to the IAC that, in part states:

"...a majority of the [Thurston] Board would like to reaffirm the position stated in our February 27, 2004 letter. Should the IAC chose not to approve these conditions in full, we would respectfully ask that both parties move rapidly toward full termination..."

In otherwords, give us all the state's ORV funds foverver, accept all the liability and we might reopen the facility, but no guarentees and if we don't get that, go away.

The answer to this attempted extortion must be not just no, but HELL NO!

The IAC must rebuff this threat and compel the county to repay the previous funding to the fullest extent allowed by law.

The IAC meets 21may2004 to discuss this issue. Let them know what you think!

 

[Hondaxrguy]

The IAC meets 21may2004 to discuss this issue. Let them know what you think!

How?

 

[fishhead]

Here you go!! send an email and get your friends to also
http://www.iac.wa.gov/

Send early and often