Tuf Racing indoor track...
- Thread starter Mike198
- Start date
I called them yesterday and it is not open yet. They are hopeful for next weekend. Everything is done but they are stuck waiting for the building inspectors to sign off on everything and give the go ahead. They seemed to be really disgusted with not being open yet. They fully appreciate that the inspectors have left them to where by the time they open it will be warm and few will need an indoor track.
Go to tufracing.com for more information.
Go to tufracing.com for more information.
I was by the shop and track today. They are going to be open on Friday from 4:00 to 9:00 and Saturday at 9:00am. It is in Watermen at the corner of US30 and RT 23. Track is on the Southwest corner in the back of the building. At the corner of 30 and 23 you turn south on 23 and cross the railroad track to pull into the building.
Flyer does not say what the price is. This time they seemed certain they will be open this weekend. They always hedged their bets when I would ask before. I saw the track and it looks nice. They have a seperate track for the small kids and the other is an Arenacross style track.
Flyer does not say what the price is. This time they seemed certain they will be open this weekend. They always hedged their bets when I would ask before. I saw the track and it looks nice. They have a seperate track for the small kids and the other is an Arenacross style track.
Just got off the phone with Tuf a little while ago. They're telling me they'll open this Friday (3/7/03) from 5pm - 10pm. Saturday seems to be broken up into two sessions, 10am-2pm and 2pm-6pm. They have a large tamed down supercross track which expert riders were getting around in about 1:08 minutes and a beginners 50 track. In order to ride there is an annual membership fee of $30 and then another $30 to ride.
Called Tuf this morning. They are open tonight from 5 to 10 and tommorrow they will break it up into two sessions. One is from 10 until 3 and then a one hour break. They will open again from 4 to 9. You will have to pay $30 per bike for each 5 hour session and a $30 yearly membership.
Amy I the only one that finds this ridiculous? If it was just me it may not be so bad since most of the tracks charge $20 for practice day. I have two kids besides myself and I will not pay $90 to ride for 5 hours. I can go to Wardy's place and pay $40 and ride all day long. Maybe I'm just being cheap, but I just don't see this being a very big success with those kinds of prices. They've already opened so late in the season that most riders will just wait on the outdoor track practice days nearby. Walnut, Buffalo, Byron, and Mega are all very close to this indoor track and charge around $20 to practice all day and we are just a few weeks from decent temps for riding.
My kids wanted to go riding this weekend so I think we are going to head down to South Fork. They didn't get the snow and the temp will be 60 degrees tommorrow. Am I nuts on this?
I guess I'm just a tightwad.
Amy I the only one that finds this ridiculous? If it was just me it may not be so bad since most of the tracks charge $20 for practice day. I have two kids besides myself and I will not pay $90 to ride for 5 hours. I can go to Wardy's place and pay $40 and ride all day long. Maybe I'm just being cheap, but I just don't see this being a very big success with those kinds of prices. They've already opened so late in the season that most riders will just wait on the outdoor track practice days nearby. Walnut, Buffalo, Byron, and Mega are all very close to this indoor track and charge around $20 to practice all day and we are just a few weeks from decent temps for riding.
My kids wanted to go riding this weekend so I think we are going to head down to South Fork. They didn't get the snow and the temp will be 60 degrees tommorrow. Am I nuts on this?
I guess I'm just a tightwad.
I think it is pretty steep myself. I live 15 minutes from a outdoor track but never ride there due to the cost. I know of at least 10 people who would go there regularly if it were a little cheaper but none of them ever go there. I could handle $15 or so, but with everything on the rise (except my wages) I just cant afford to go riding anymore. Sounds like it would be pretty cool to ride indoors though. Even if it was summer a little shade never hurt.
Is it a fully inclosed building or just a roof and partial sides?
Is it a fully inclosed building or just a roof and partial sides?
Bob Brooks
Member
- Jan 6, 2001
- 367
- 0
No, I don't think you're a tight wad. That is a pretty steep rate. It's going to cost anyone $60 to try it out and if you have kids, forget it. I understand the point of these places is to make money, but that seems a little on the steep side of things. Nevertheless, it's encouraging to see another riding area open up and the concept of an indoor arena is really neat. In the winter months, the place should do really well and if it's air-conditioned, it might have some success in July and August too. I hope it works out, but the price turns me away too. Like jsned, all my expenses seem to be rising but my salary is stagnant...not a good thing!
Maybe once they have been open a little while the fees will get more in line. I wouldn't mind paying $30 for a quality track if I could ride all day. Most places charge you $20 to ride on practice or play days anyway. They should also have a lower fee for a kids also. At $30 you are only going to draw the single diehard racer and maybe thats all they want at this point.
I'm going to go watch tommorrow afternoon and I'll let you know what the turnout is like. If they fill up then I say go for broke. It is all about supply and demand, if I'm not willing to pay $30 and 100 other folks are (the website says limited to 100) then either I pay or don't ride. I just don't see that kind of demand, but then again I was wrong ONCE before.
I'm going to go watch tommorrow afternoon and I'll let you know what the turnout is like. If they fill up then I say go for broke. It is all about supply and demand, if I'm not willing to pay $30 and 100 other folks are (the website says limited to 100) then either I pay or don't ride. I just don't see that kind of demand, but then again I was wrong ONCE before.
nikki
Moto Junkie
- Apr 21, 2000
- 5,802
- 1
I think you might be missing a BIG point here. This is an INDOOR track requiring a little more money and overhead than an outdoor track.
Anyone can buy 10 acres for $50k, spend $10k bringing in dirt, and another $5k on machines and build an outdoor track. Total costs of overhead = $65k + insurance and taxes (insurance = the biggest cost at any park).
I have heard that $500k has been put into the Tuf's place. I assume that includes land, building, dirt, machines, indoor facilities (fans, ventilation system, lights, bathrooms, bleachers, pillars, fencing, pads, hay bales, sign-up area, etc.), utilities (fees for track personnel, gas, electric, water, telephone, property taxes) and then the big whammy = insurance!
Sorry to say, but an indoor joint is MUCH more costly than most outdoor tracks. And the sad thing is that most riders from April-October probably rather ride outdoors when given the choice.
Indoor riding places are great for the die hard rider who is willing to pay anything for some ride time, for riders practicing to race AX/SX, and for riding in the winter/rain/evening.
I understand that $30 a pop for maybe an hour track time in total over the 4-5 hour riding sessions isn't the greatest... but I guess we'll just have to see how things go. Obviously Tuf's (and all the other indoor joints) have BIG TIME upfront costs to cover and need to have such high rates.
I have been going up to Zeeland MX in MI and paying $40 each time for a 7 hour ride session and I have no problem with the $40. I could also pay $100 for a year membership and $15 a time but choose to do a $25 daily membership and $15 a time instead. But I guess if you live around there, $15 a time (after the initial $100) is great. Much better than Tuf's $30 ONLY if you plan on going 5 times a year or more. If you only go 4 times a year, then Tuf's is cheaper. Zeeland also offers a reduced rate for their mini track and it's the same price weather you ride one bike or two (I believe).
Have you ever race Arenacross? Talk about expensive... $50 to get maybe 10-15 laps all day long. And $20 (I think) for all non-racers.
Anyone can buy 10 acres for $50k, spend $10k bringing in dirt, and another $5k on machines and build an outdoor track. Total costs of overhead = $65k + insurance and taxes (insurance = the biggest cost at any park).
I have heard that $500k has been put into the Tuf's place. I assume that includes land, building, dirt, machines, indoor facilities (fans, ventilation system, lights, bathrooms, bleachers, pillars, fencing, pads, hay bales, sign-up area, etc.), utilities (fees for track personnel, gas, electric, water, telephone, property taxes) and then the big whammy = insurance!
Sorry to say, but an indoor joint is MUCH more costly than most outdoor tracks. And the sad thing is that most riders from April-October probably rather ride outdoors when given the choice.
Indoor riding places are great for the die hard rider who is willing to pay anything for some ride time, for riders practicing to race AX/SX, and for riding in the winter/rain/evening.
I understand that $30 a pop for maybe an hour track time in total over the 4-5 hour riding sessions isn't the greatest... but I guess we'll just have to see how things go. Obviously Tuf's (and all the other indoor joints) have BIG TIME upfront costs to cover and need to have such high rates.
I have been going up to Zeeland MX in MI and paying $40 each time for a 7 hour ride session and I have no problem with the $40. I could also pay $100 for a year membership and $15 a time but choose to do a $25 daily membership and $15 a time instead. But I guess if you live around there, $15 a time (after the initial $100) is great. Much better than Tuf's $30 ONLY if you plan on going 5 times a year or more. If you only go 4 times a year, then Tuf's is cheaper. Zeeland also offers a reduced rate for their mini track and it's the same price weather you ride one bike or two (I believe).
Have you ever race Arenacross? Talk about expensive... $50 to get maybe 10-15 laps all day long. And $20 (I think) for all non-racers.
Thanks Nikki
I understand the upfront costs. I raced a few of the amatuer days years ago after the Supercross events. The fee's were nuts for the amount of laps you actually got. Being a businessman myself though and knowing the upfront costs you would be wise to fill the place up. If you are only going to draw the diehards at $30 you are severely limiting your return. For instance 20 diehards at $30 nets you $600. If you drop the price to $20 you would need 10 more riders to come. Would 10 more come for that drop in price? It's about maximizing revenue. 40 riders at $20 is better than 20 at $30 and so on.
Remember your upfront cost does not change. When you spend 500k on any new business you want to maximize your revenue and the way to do that is to get the most people or widgets you make sold. Now maybe they have done that already and feel that at $30 they will fill the place up. If that is true and they have big turnouts they are doing exactly what they should do. However, if the turnouts are low they will have to get them up. Remember that upfront cost has nothing to do with revenue. Maximum revenue is the goal of any business, regardless of what the startup cost is.
I understand the upfront costs. I raced a few of the amatuer days years ago after the Supercross events. The fee's were nuts for the amount of laps you actually got. Being a businessman myself though and knowing the upfront costs you would be wise to fill the place up. If you are only going to draw the diehards at $30 you are severely limiting your return. For instance 20 diehards at $30 nets you $600. If you drop the price to $20 you would need 10 more riders to come. Would 10 more come for that drop in price? It's about maximizing revenue. 40 riders at $20 is better than 20 at $30 and so on.
Remember your upfront cost does not change. When you spend 500k on any new business you want to maximize your revenue and the way to do that is to get the most people or widgets you make sold. Now maybe they have done that already and feel that at $30 they will fill the place up. If that is true and they have big turnouts they are doing exactly what they should do. However, if the turnouts are low they will have to get them up. Remember that upfront cost has nothing to do with revenue. Maximum revenue is the goal of any business, regardless of what the startup cost is.
wardy
2005 Lori Nyland Award Winner
- Nov 12, 1999
- 2,681
- 9
I have been biting my tounge here for a while LOL.
Nikki, you know why the nice pretty field in front of my place don't have a big pretty building sitting on it. In fact your figures on some of this are about 1/3 true~!
I had the plans, layouts etc, but with only 2 winters out of 7 bad around here and the focus is moderately bad weather times for big turn outs it just don't add up. Most of the riders I asked take the 2-3 months off to build back up money and during the holidays spend more time with familys. Not to mention I plain couldn't afford the risk to my new place at this point.
Pricing at 30.00 is in line(if not on the low side) and for the rider that wants to ride in the winter, its 30.00 bucs or dust gathers on the machine for awhile.
Taxes, Zoning, Heat!, etc etc not to mention what the heck ya gonna do with that huge tin thing all summer? Yep it rains now and then, but outdoor stuff is why we ride/race etc. To be outdoors. WI riders, heck they either snowmobile or ice race. Its a matter of taste.
One thing for sure these places, IMX for instance, has 1.5M out there at least. Anyone paying payments on that kind of juice for sure knows that it is imperative to make something work in a short period of time! But to only have a real time frame of 3 months? wow. Not to mention if the weather is "real bad" then people don't come either. So that is why there isn't a roof at FVOR, costs like that and riders not wanting to pay a higher fee pretty much set that stage.
Just for an example, racers at some old (1970's) sign stuff i just looked at were paying 20.00 to race, and 5 at the gate. What is it that anyone can find in thier house today that is anywhere near close the same price that it was 30 years ago?
Not bashing here at all, just making comparisons. But I know i sure wouldn't want to "start" up an indoor facility a week prior to forcasted 50 degree weekends. Not to mention no matter how good of system you have, if you don't have fumes likely your heat went out the window also, if its toasty warm, likely its getting a little tasty when it comes to breathing.
I think I could find something more to do than sit around all day to ride a few laps then ride a few more. So sit in the truck half the time running it to stay warm, then go inside sweat awhile, then go back outside.......................
I guess I am getting old...........................
:)
wardy
Nikki, you know why the nice pretty field in front of my place don't have a big pretty building sitting on it. In fact your figures on some of this are about 1/3 true~!
I had the plans, layouts etc, but with only 2 winters out of 7 bad around here and the focus is moderately bad weather times for big turn outs it just don't add up. Most of the riders I asked take the 2-3 months off to build back up money and during the holidays spend more time with familys. Not to mention I plain couldn't afford the risk to my new place at this point.
Pricing at 30.00 is in line(if not on the low side) and for the rider that wants to ride in the winter, its 30.00 bucs or dust gathers on the machine for awhile.
Taxes, Zoning, Heat!, etc etc not to mention what the heck ya gonna do with that huge tin thing all summer? Yep it rains now and then, but outdoor stuff is why we ride/race etc. To be outdoors. WI riders, heck they either snowmobile or ice race. Its a matter of taste.
One thing for sure these places, IMX for instance, has 1.5M out there at least. Anyone paying payments on that kind of juice for sure knows that it is imperative to make something work in a short period of time! But to only have a real time frame of 3 months? wow. Not to mention if the weather is "real bad" then people don't come either. So that is why there isn't a roof at FVOR, costs like that and riders not wanting to pay a higher fee pretty much set that stage.
Just for an example, racers at some old (1970's) sign stuff i just looked at were paying 20.00 to race, and 5 at the gate. What is it that anyone can find in thier house today that is anywhere near close the same price that it was 30 years ago?
Not bashing here at all, just making comparisons. But I know i sure wouldn't want to "start" up an indoor facility a week prior to forcasted 50 degree weekends. Not to mention no matter how good of system you have, if you don't have fumes likely your heat went out the window also, if its toasty warm, likely its getting a little tasty when it comes to breathing.
I think I could find something more to do than sit around all day to ride a few laps then ride a few more. So sit in the truck half the time running it to stay warm, then go inside sweat awhile, then go back outside.......................
I guess I am getting old...........................
:)
wardy
Well, I went by tonight to check things out. I think Wardy has it nailed. This is going to be a very hard go for these folks. Tonight was opening night and I counted 28 big bikes, 3 80's (one of those was the owners son) and 2 65's. The format is the classes are divided into beginner (no doubling on jumps), intermediate, and expert. Each group would go out for about 15 laps and then the next group. After 5 hours you are paying $30 for about 8 sessions.
Judging by the number of kids riding, I was right on the money about the cost. It is going to be very difficult for multiple bike families to afford to ride with those fee's. I didn't see one family of multiple bikes there.
This year Joliet is also supposed to open up an indoor track so now you add that competition in the mix. I wish them luck with it, but it sure looks like it is going to be a difficult road for them. Your diehard racers will come and the fringe guys or guys with families just aren't going to pay that kind of money to ride 8 sessions on a regular basis.
Wardy forgot that other major thing we do in the Winter. He forgot the honeydo list that allows us to get out of the house in the summer. I haven't ridden since November, every weekend since then, except holidays, I have spent doing things to the house the Wife has been asking me to do since last winter. She's happy now so she will let me out of the house to go play now.
We're off to South Fork tommorrow it looks like.
Judging by the number of kids riding, I was right on the money about the cost. It is going to be very difficult for multiple bike families to afford to ride with those fee's. I didn't see one family of multiple bikes there.
This year Joliet is also supposed to open up an indoor track so now you add that competition in the mix. I wish them luck with it, but it sure looks like it is going to be a difficult road for them. Your diehard racers will come and the fringe guys or guys with families just aren't going to pay that kind of money to ride 8 sessions on a regular basis.
Wardy forgot that other major thing we do in the Winter. He forgot the honeydo list that allows us to get out of the house in the summer. I haven't ridden since November, every weekend since then, except holidays, I have spent doing things to the house the Wife has been asking me to do since last winter. She's happy now so she will let me out of the house to go play now.
We're off to South Fork tommorrow it looks like.
Katerron, did they let you take a look inside? I was wondering if you could walk in and look at the track before paying. My group is not so experienced at supercross style tracks and would hate to pay then be so intimidated by the track nobody wants to ride.
I heard the rumor about Joliets dome, but all they talk about on their site is the new motocross track. I thought maybe they scrapped the dome for the mx track. That is the place I mentioned in my previous post that is very close but we never go (expense and the track is too technical), but I cant wait to see the new mx track. That is more up my alley.
I heard the rumor about Joliets dome, but all they talk about on their site is the new motocross track. I thought maybe they scrapped the dome for the mx track. That is the place I mentioned in my previous post that is very close but we never go (expense and the track is too technical), but I cant wait to see the new mx track. That is more up my alley.
No charge to look around at Watermen. It seems to be beginner friendly, it has some step up and step offs and a nice set of whoops. All of the jumps can be singled if intimidated. It is more technical than Joliet, but you don't get the speed you do at Joliet either.
Joliets dome is in the works and I heard will be finished late summer. They have the material there and need to put it together. It's not just talk. They may run into delays like Watermen but you are pretty much at the mercy of inspectors and can't do a whole lot about it. Those guys work their own schedule and fighting with them over it doesn't exactly speed up the process.
Joliets dome is in the works and I heard will be finished late summer. They have the material there and need to put it together. It's not just talk. They may run into delays like Watermen but you are pretty much at the mercy of inspectors and can't do a whole lot about it. Those guys work their own schedule and fighting with them over it doesn't exactly speed up the process.
I remember a year or two ago about an Indoor Track in Martinsville,Indiana. Does anyone know if it ever opened or not? They did have a website there for awhile and it showed pictures of the building being built, but then one day the website just wasnt there. I havent heard anything more about it and I think i would have if it did open. I'm getting a little over anxious with this winter. My entire backyard is flooded and theres at least 1 to 2 feet of water in the berms. Anyone know about the track?
If WIR doesn't make it, this is probably going to be the biggest nail in the coffin. With so many races in D-17 from April through September, a few months of downtime generally is welcomed (by body, bike, wallet AND wives) for most racers. I could see them do some serious business from mid-January through early March most years, though, even at the relatively high cost; however, I don't know if that's enough time on the clock to make it pay off.
James
James
If they make a go of it then it will probably be because of the population in the Chicago area. IMX is a neat place BUT while they are getting riders I don't think they have the turnout they expected.
It's going to take a lot of riders to pay off the building and expenses.
Just wondering, how many of you have been to IMX this winter?
It's going to take a lot of riders to pay off the building and expenses.
Just wondering, how many of you have been to IMX this winter?
wardy
2005 Lori Nyland Award Winner
- Nov 12, 1999
- 2,681
- 9
Many friends and team members from here have went to imx.............once.
Its really hard to see a guy spend the money that group has and then only have the turnout he gets. Lets face it, he put his money out there and put a place up for riders, problem is, just because you live some where don't make it a great place for a track.
I have fought that here for years, but the overhead figured in would be a huge hill to climb.
the main thing is very cool to see the growth, and there may be a ton of races, but the races and tracks/club/areas.... the more growth and "sustained" ridership will last.
wardy
Its really hard to see a guy spend the money that group has and then only have the turnout he gets. Lets face it, he put his money out there and put a place up for riders, problem is, just because you live some where don't make it a great place for a track.
I have fought that here for years, but the overhead figured in would be a huge hill to climb.
the main thing is very cool to see the growth, and there may be a ton of races, but the races and tracks/club/areas.... the more growth and "sustained" ridership will last.
wardy
What's that saying? Location, Location, Location!
IMX is a neat place, it's just that it is in the middle of nowhere. The same thing may go in the Chicago area because of the number of riders. Still, the riders have to realize that it's not going to be cheap to ride a heated indoor track. IMX costs a lot and I'm sure that Tuf is going to have to charge at least that much if not more.
IMO IMX didn't get enough advertizement out before winter set in and anyone opening a indoor track this month is going to be in trouble because the regular outdoor season is getting ready to start. If both can hang on until next winter they may be ok.
IMX is a neat place, it's just that it is in the middle of nowhere. The same thing may go in the Chicago area because of the number of riders. Still, the riders have to realize that it's not going to be cheap to ride a heated indoor track. IMX costs a lot and I'm sure that Tuf is going to have to charge at least that much if not more.
IMO IMX didn't get enough advertizement out before winter set in and anyone opening a indoor track this month is going to be in trouble because the regular outdoor season is getting ready to start. If both can hang on until next winter they may be ok.
The other hiccup they had this weekend was the heat. Or should I say lack thereof. They had a problem with the heaters so this weekend you rode without heat and it was cold, cold, cold inside that building with the exhaust vents bringing in fresh air from the outside.
