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zcookie49

Seven OUT!
Dec 21, 2000
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I am going to try to be careful with this topic, for it will sure be touchy and there are many opinions out there, I'm sure.
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Last night, my friends and I went out late at night to a small pub in the city. We were just sitting around, sipping down a couple of suds watching some of the drunks shooting pool. Near the end of the night, this 50 yr old man starts engaging me in conversations about my goals in life and so forth.. He kept rambling on, asking em to tell him "some good news"......
I says, "well, we're about to go to war in about a month, I really don't know of any good news" ..He replied that what the USA is doing is bull crap........
Then he makes the statement. he says "My sons tell me that they would rather do 5 years in jail then to go over there and fight for this country.."..
I was boiling up...I guess it didn't help that earlier tonight I watched the movie, "the Patriot" with Mel Gibson (good flick by the way). I was floored in my response, and will keep short what I told him. He supported is statement by saying, "what has the president done for you? Look at what the government is doing to us and all that type of garbage.."
I answered with telling him that I understand that our country has issues, but it is the Best Country in the world, and if They dont like it, Please, move to another country. I told him there is no where else that he can speak his mind like this. He disagreed. He said, "why should my son die for this president?".... I advised that our people in the past gave their lives for our freedom, that is why....he said that is crap.... I says, "where the heck were you when 9-11 happened? I guarantee you that if another 9-11 happens and hurt your or your family, you would blame the government, I had some other choice words and then left...
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I am normally a real laid back easy going dude, but this just ticks me off. No one wants war, no one wants to die, but this is happening for a reason/cause. Not one of us would have what we have today if it wasnt for the fact that our past vets gave their lives up for the beliefs of this country.
..... I just saw on supercross.com how before the sandiego sx, they did a tribute to the marines...and then I have to thing of the garbage I heard last night....But this is America, and free speach is allowed. I just hope none of our service men/women would have to hear that.... God bless them all, for they our going to be putting their lives on the line for me and that guy and his honorless sons.
.....
 

oldguy

Always Broken
Dec 26, 1999
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You probably saved yourself a whole lot of torment by reacting the way you did. The guy was basing his ideals on emotion and not logic or history.
You will never change a persons point of view with reasonning when his own point of view was arrived at without reasonning
 

IrishEKU

A General PITA.
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Apr 21, 2002
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In vino vitras. Or something like that I can't remember :think: .

Tanslation, "With wine comes truth.

He let his colors show, you reacted well, stated your point and left.

Someone on here has a sig line that reads: "Argue with an idiot and you will drag yourself down to his level" or along those lines, it applies.

I salute you  :thumb:
 

Hucker

~SPONSOR~
Sep 15, 2000
996
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Don't bring them here, you could chuck them in the Niagara river though...
 

IrishEKU

A General PITA.
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Originally posted by Rattletrap'83CR480
Can I drop 'em off in Quebec?!? :yeehaw:

RatTrap:thumb:

Newfoundland or Greenland would be more appropriate.... ;)


Regards,
 
Oct 22, 2000
197
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IrishEKU, that will mean that I'll have to take up a collection for a little gas money. I'm sure that some of the veterans here would be happy to contribute. Ridding this country of people who don't understand what their freedom means and who disregard those that fought and gave their lives protecting their freedoms (yes, and that includes the freedom to be a total IDIOT) is something I have no quams about. Oops, I don't want to ramble.

RatTrap :thumb:

Ssgt. USAF, 1980-1984
Aircraft Armament Systems F-111F/FB-111A
48th TFW, RAF Lakenheath, UK
380th Bombardment Wing, Plattsburgh AFB, NY
 

IrishEKU

A General PITA.
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Apr 21, 2002
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Rat Trap....

Entered DEP program in June of 90.....

Serving enlisted thorough Nov. of 98.

Currently in a commissioning program.....

I know the in's and out's...... ;)



A co. 3/10 BCT
A co. 86th ORD AIT
Hcc 2nd of 18th Inf (Ft. Benning) 1st unit...'92
1st. 11th ACR A troop 2nd unit.(Favorite.)
Hcc 4-12 Inf, Baumholder. This place I didn't like...Nov 93-96.
HHT 1-16th Ft. Knox....I tolerated untill I got out.



Finally I will say.

Honorably Discharged....(End of Discussion) :thumb:


We are in the same boat......I will give any ammount to those that want to spout off and not want to stay. :p

I am a proud member of this great country called the USA. :flame:

Anyone here who isn't I'll be happy to pay for your ticket out.


Regards,
 

IrishEKU

A General PITA.
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Apr 21, 2002
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Originally posted by Rattletrap'83CR480
IrishEKU, that will mean that I'll have to take up a collection for a little gas money. I'm sure that some of the veterans here would be happy to contribute. Ridding this country of people who don't understand what their freedom means and who disregard those that fought and gave their lives protecting their freedoms (yes, and that includes the freedom to be a total IDIOT) is something I have no quams about. Oops, I don't want to ramble.

RatTrap :thumb:

Ssgt. USAF, 1980-1984
Aircraft Armament Systems F-111F/FB-111A
48th TFW, RAF Lakenheath, UK
380th Bombardment Wing, Plattsburgh AFB, NY

Ratt,

You Rock!

:aj: :thumb:
 

Pokie

Administrator
May 7, 1999
1,698
1
Galena, IL
Originally posted by IrishEKU
In vino vitras. Or something like that I can't remember :think: .

Tanslation, "With wine comes truth. 

I salute you  :thumb:

...actually: in vino veritas

 
 

FritoBandito

Member
Sep 18, 2001
147
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Love it or leave it! is what I always think to myself when I here people talk about the problems we have in the USA. These people that complain are not thinking about what things could have been like if we had not gotten rid of Hitler and the others like him. It is a shame that so many people had to die before that ended. I don't know all of the history and facts about that stuff, but I have heard enough that I don't think I could stomach all of the details. So I think we should go in and clean up this mess ASAP and maybe we can get some of these things fixed before our kids grow up.
 

IrishEKU

A General PITA.
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Apr 21, 2002
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Originally posted by Pokie


...actually: in vino veritas

 

Appriciate the help Pokie! :worship:
 

yzguy15

Sprayin tha game
N. Texas SP
Oct 27, 2000
1,271
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Originally posted by IrishEKU

Someone on here has a sig line that reads: "Argue with an idiot and you will drag yourself down to his level" or along those lines, it applies.

I salute you  :thumb:

Actually, I believe that it is like this... If you argue with an idiot all they'll do is drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
 
Oct 22, 2000
197
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HHT 1-16th Ft. Knox....I tolerated untill I got out.

IrishEKU, I seem to recall that Fort Knox is in Kentucky. If it was only tolerable, why did you stay in Kentucky when you got out? My last base was in Plattaburgh, NY on Lake Champlain. When I got out, I got as far away from there as I could (the only place I have been that was colder than Plattsburgh in the Winter was Norway in the Winter). Just wondering.

RatTrap:thumb:
 

IrishEKU

A General PITA.
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Apr 21, 2002
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Originally posted by Rattletrap'83CR480


IrishEKU, I seem to recall that Fort Knox is in Kentucky. If it was only tolerable, why did you stay in Kentucky when you got out? My last base was in Plattaburgh, NY on Lake Champlain. When I got out, I got as far away from there as I could (the only place I have been that was colder than Plattsburgh in the Winter was Norway in the Winter). Just wondering.

RatTrap:thumb:
Rat,

The reason I stayed was due to pure economics, or rather what I could get for my years in service and belive it or not the area of KY I am in is beautiful with all the horse farms and such.

The reason I disliked Ft. Knox so much was that there was really no room for upward mobility for a wrench bender. The points where sky high and I had just gone through a divorce so I was a little negative to say the least about my situation.

When I found out that the KYANG pay's 100% college tuition I jumped at it.

Regards,
 

gmacd

Member
Jul 14, 2002
40
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with regards to the gentleman from richmond ky, what is wrong with newfoundland? i would love to hear your response as i am sure you've never been here. it is beutiful here never too hot never too cold and infinite trails to ride, so as a MX'r you should either do your research or just refrain from comments such as those. and about the war on iraq. i wouldn't want to die so some "big Oil" hotshots can gian control of the region to appoint a puppet (think ahmad karsi-afganistan) if your going to go into iraq you need to understand worldwar 3 is on the horizon. the arab world is a very storied and complex web of mystery and intrigue and there are forces at play beyond anyof our perceptions. i look at the stock market, i lost 10000$ since sept 11 and enron/worldcom. imagine the "powers that be" and how much your multimillionare government officials must have lost. then think of the 200 BILLION + cost of this war, you don't think some of these chicken hawks have their hands in the pot? this war could make many people VERY wealthy, and i certainly don't want to die fighting a war for that. i see alot of reference to the past. to even compare ww2 with a possible war with iraq is an insult to the veterans of that war. they REALLY DIED FOR FREEDOM. hitler was on the brink of winning the european front when the U.S. came in. sadaam on the otherhand can barly invade a country like kuwait(the size of Main) properly let alone mount an attack on the mighty U.S.A's sovergnty... and i really shouldn't have to remind you that to this day iraq has NEVER been linked with the events of sept 11 so don't even bring that intoquestion. i am sorry for your loss it was tradgic. but your enemy is al-quida.
 

IrishEKU

A General PITA.
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Apr 21, 2002
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This is soooo unlike me but I am going to let this slide considering the fact that you are only twenty years old and just starting life so to speak.

Concerning your points about WWII, Hitler and our current situation vis a vis Iraq. You had better bone up on your history there young man. I participated in an Operation that was supplying aid to the Kurds in 92. Have you ever seen what Mustard Gas does to human beings?

Since you were only 9 y/o at the time I doub't you remember that little piece of history and the simalarities to WWII. Hmmm Gas, innocent civilians who are minorities, you get the picture I hope.

20 years old and lost $10,000? I wish I had that trust fund.

As for Newfoundland, sparky don't make assumptions notice the first part of the word, you get the idea. I grew up in Maine, I have fished the waters since before you were born. Granted I haven't set foot in the area but, I have lived in the climate and visited New Brunswick a number of times.

I am going to cut this short before I really start to loose it and will say this, think before you post next time. :silly:
 

truespode

Moderator / Wheelie King
Jun 30, 1999
7,984
251
Originally posted by gmacd
your enemy is al-quida.

America's enemy is Al-Quida. One of the WORLD'S most dangerous enemies is Hussein. Not the Iraqi people but Hussein.

16 out of 19 countries favor intervention. Do not be fooled by the media nor the "... no threat to America" propaganda.

Who the F cares if they do not threaten the US. Hussein threaten's our Allies. Hussein threatens the innocent and if NATO is unwilling to step in to stop a madman who has a DOCUMENTED history of murder, torture and crimes against humanity then what does that say about the rest of the world?

It is our obligation as human beings to do what we can to remove Hussein and if 3 other countries are not going to stand up to the bully does that mean we shirk our obligation?

Look at it this way. There is a bully and 3 of your neighbors live very close to him. They are scared and they have financial problems to deal with. Can you trust them to take on the expense and risk of agreeing with us publicly? No you can't. You have to do what is right despite the political rhetoric.

As always, we will be criticised in public and thanked in private. That is the price you pay for doing what is right in the world.

If you can't see that then you are too worried about yourself to be of any use to those that can't help themselves and need some intervention.

In my opinion, it is time to go and the fact that our Administration has resisted so well and has went through NATO and fought the battles of politics show that they want the WORLD behind them b/c it is the WORLD's problem. However, when you see a rabid dog in your neighbors yard... sometimes you have to put it down even though their little girl will cry with non-understanding tears.

Ivan
 

Okiewan

Admin
Dec 31, 1969
29,550
2,238
Texas
This one's going down the tubes.
gmacd: man that was some good college campus conspiracy theory politics. :silly:
 

Timr

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jul 26, 1999
1,972
6
Rat,

This guy :worship: pays homage to you.  I always salute people from the F-111 community.  I was born in Oxford, England when my dad was stationed over there.

He was WSO in F-111E 20th TFW, 79th TFS RAF Upper Heyford, 1970-1974.

Great Airplane.  When you went from England to Plattsburgh, was that a switch from TAC to SAC?  Didn't the planes at Plattsburgh convert from SAC to TAC in the early 90s?  I think they renamed the FB-111A to F-111G.

Oh, BTW, I've been to Benicia, CA before too.  Had a friend who moved out there from Houston.  Nice place.
 
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