VP Fuel Slams the AMA

[Jon K.]

Why don't they just fine him like a 50k or something like that, why take points from the leader... :bang:

A monetary fine would not hurt a big team.

Taking points away certainly does.

 

[Solid State]

When you get busted for speeding, do you tell the cop that the limit is too low? More to the point, do you get a break when you tell the cop that the limit is too low?

This should make you squeal: The posted speed limit on the road we live on is 20mph. Many cars routinely speed at 2-3x the limit. There is a school bus stop at our driveway. When we call the police to enforce the limit, the reponse we get is that in the state of Maryland, any speed limit below 25mph is UNENFORCEABLE!!!! - even with radar.

 

[Chili]

It took three instances for VP to finally step up and say something. I think they were tired of others making them the scapegoat. VP probably provided fuel to the other 7 bikes that passed inspection. They don't have a problem meeting the specs in the rulebook, but they have no control as to what happens to their fuel once it leaves their stockpile.

If that's the case why would VP not step to the plate with data showing their quality control process and relevant testing data to show they can meet spec 100% of the time? Instead they chose to deflect and complain that the spec is unreasonable.

As for them having no control after it leaves their stockpile, do you really think that Yamaha, Kawasaki and now Suzuki all managed to contaminate their fuel to almost the exact same amount? I sure hope if I ever have quality control issues for my business that my customers are a as easy to sidetrack with excuses.

 

[Chili]

And for the record I think the penalty is a joke and the rule needs to be changed.

 

[BEEF706]

I believe this whole episode to be tangible evidence of a vast anti Leprachaun conspiracy based in Idaho.

 

[Philip]

It does not suprise me that they want to play by Euro's rules, they are just following the lead of all the others giving this country away. I know my bubble has been busted for a great season.

BTW good one beef!!

 

[Ryone]

I'm not sold on the "dirt in gas" theory.

I'm not sold on it either. I'm just stating that parts/billion is sooooo trace (especially in a 2 gallon gas tank) that it's possible.

If that's the case why would VP not step to the plate with data showing their quality control process and relevant testing data to show they can meet spec 100% of the time?

I totally agree. Passing the buck may not be the best approach. If they provided hard facts instead of pointing a finger, their open letter would read a lot better.

As for them having no control after it leaves their stockpile, do you really think that Yamaha, Kawasaki and now Suzuki all managed to contaminate their fuel to almost the exact same amount?

I think that since the amounts were all close, it shows that something similar may have happened to all samples. Possibly, as suggested earlier, the samples were collected irresponsibly. Also possible is that the fuel they all used was exposed to a similar contaminant in a similar fashion. It's tough to speculate, but exceeding .005 g/ML by .013 g/ML is still rediculous as far as the rule is concerned, and in NO WAY WHATSOEVER should be consdered as an attempt to cheat by any rider.

Ryan

 

[Masterphil]

...If he does'nt win the chapionship it sure takes away some of the prestage of winning it this year for someone else...

Especially if he loses by 25pts or less.:ahhh:

Does anyone know the size of sample that is taken to be tested? It is entirely possible that when the fuel was in his bike it was perfectly legal, but since we're likely talking about a very small sample that was taken to be tested (probably a few ml's), it wouldn't take much to contaminate that small of a sample on a ppm level.

For the record, I think the rule is crap.

 

[AngryCandy]

Good interview on RacerX with the Global Sales Mrg of VP. He says that Yamaha has tested EVERY drum since their penalty last year and all were under the limit. Also said that contamination could come from virtually anywhere. Some glass beakers even have lead in them and the fuel sample may have been contaminated in the lab.

 

[zcookie49]

yep, Yamaha got burned by it before, didnt have their points given back so they take extra precautions. I think Byrne and Stewart were both contaminated last year for Kawasaki. Wouldnt you think teams would know that any violation that is worth a deduction of 25 points to be taken serious?
...
IMO, I think the rule sucks the way it is with the points being taken away, but that is the current rule. I think they need to modify the rule for a good fine the first time, 2nd time should be a points deduction (pattern emerging with gas, possible cheater)....etc.
.
I think this whole "give RC the points back" sympathy is a little overboard. I know this is ONE of the greatest seasons of late, but the AMA is the one who decides to check the fuel. Reversing the decision would be make the AMA look worse because they didnt do such for Team Yamaha or Team Kawasaki in the past, and would show favoritism to a particular rider.
.
I can see the future if the rule stays the same "team fuel will be secured in armored trucks, where they will have to completely clean the bike before entering the super sterilized fueling station with people in silver radioactive suits to dispense fuel" OR maybe there is a "dirt fairy" around, sprinkling dirt particles into gas to taint it. LOL.. haha

 

[Reesknight]

I can see the future if the rule stays the same "team fuel will be secured in armored trucks, where they will have to completely clean the bike before entering the super sterilized fueling station with people in silver radioactive suits to dispense fuel" OR maybe there is a "dirt fairy" around, sprinkling dirt particles into gas to taint it. LOL.. haha

That doesn't even help if the sample gets contaminated.

 

[oldfrt613]

1) The penalty doesn't fit the "crime" - 25 pnts a whole race - even with super duper fuel it might get a rider a couple of positions.
2) All the factories know they will be tested - this has to be some obscure way the fuel gets contaminated.
3) At these lead levels, fuel needs to be tested prior to being put in the bikes - not after a race when God knows what gets in the tank.
4) Simple rule is to have the AMA use a single supplier for fuel for the teams.

Bottom line - I don't want a racing season to be decided by some silly rule which has no bearing on the outcome of a race - and I doubt the riders do either. I guess they finally figured out how to beat RC.

 

[nephron]

Both sides are at fault. Mr. "motorsickles" Whitelock not only can't say motorcycle properly, but he doesn't have a clue about gas, TEL, or the concept that NO ONE in this country is motivated to make a fuel with a spec less than .005g/l because they don't have to; and VP is at fault because they apparently didn't read the rulebook. Tragic for RC, and those before him.

Once again, NO LEAD in this country means less than or equal to none other than 3 times the FIM limit. End of story. You can blame the AMA for letting that CCE vs. JAM debacle bring in the FIM to **** it all up.

 

[CJG]

Something I haven't seen mentioned is that there is no hard and fast rule as to how many points should be deducted for illegal fuel. The rule book just says that they may take points, but nowhere does it say that they have to take 25 points. I think the reason that they docked RC 25 points is because that is what they had done in the past with Reed, Bubba, etc.(obviously). Why did they take 25 points from Reed? Because Whitelock really believed that team Yamaha was cheating. He has said as much. Of course now he realizes that was not the case. So ultimately RC's penalty is the result of Whitelock's previous ignorance. Nothing more.

Since I haven't seen a crazy conspiracy theory here in a while, I guess I'll have to start a new one. How's this?
Whitelock knew all along that Reed and team Yamaha weren't cheating in 2004. But since Whitelock has had a very long relationship with Honda, he penalizes Yamaha the maximum points allowed to try to close the gap between Reed and Honda's Kevin Windham since it's clear KW has no chance of catching CR. Whitelock effectively cornered himself by trying to help his former employer win another championship. Now he's forced to stick with his previous rulings to conceal his treachery.
Fast forward to 2005. Team Kawasaki is found to be in noncompliance with the fuel rule. But luckily for Whitelock, Kawasaki doesn't have any riders in the points chase so the episode blows over relatively unnoticed.
Fast forward to 2006. Ricky Carmichael's fuel is found to be in noncompliance. But unfortunately for Whitelock, this time it happens to a rider right in the thick of a championship. During arguably the greatest season in supercross history, at least the greatest season in recent memory. To arguably the greatest rider of all time. Who just happens to be on a team managed by "The Man" himself, Roger DeCoster. Things are looking pretty grim for Whitelock. How can he get out of this predicament unscathed? There's only one way to turn this around. He has to find a scapegoat. Who can he find to take the fall? It looks like VP Fuels, one of the most respected names in motocross, will have to suffer for Whitelock's follies. ;)

Well, what do you think?
a.) Absolutely true
b.) Likely
c.) Plausible, but unlikely
d.) Highly unlikely
e.) What are you? Stupid or something? :)

 

[Jon K.]

Since I haven't seen a crazy conspiracy theory here in a while, I guess I'll have to start a new one.

How does Whitelock's penalty toward KW (for punting DV into the cheap seats) fit in with your theory? :)

 

[CJG]

How does Whitelock's penalty toward KW (for punting DV into the cheap seats) fit in with your theory? :)

Easy. It was just a ruse concocted by Whitelock to maintain the appearance of fairness. Knowing all the while that they were going to overturn the penalty, which they promptly did. :nener:

 

[HiG4s]

I pick . . .

F. Not true at all because is would indicate someone at the AMA actually has a brain.

 

[CJG]

I pick . . .

F. Not true at all because is would indicate someone at the AMA actually has a brain.

Well, that blows a perfectly good conspiracy theory out of the water. You're right. A plan that elaborate would require forethought, planning, and intelligence. All areas in which the AMA is sorely lacking. :|

 

[84cr125flyer]

I'm sure this has been covered before and the teams will try at almost any cost to win, but is there a tangible benefit to run higher amount of lead? If I remember correctly it was used to help reduce wear on valve seats before someone figured out how to harden them, so will lead give any increased power? I know oxygen has a major impact but lead? I figured the fuel rules were to stay in line with the FIM. Anyways, it appears the AMA cannot learn from the past and since VP provides almost all the race teams with fuel it's one step closer to NASCAR as far as a single fuel supplier can be. I took the letter from VP not as a finger pointer but from the aspect as explaining when the fuel leaves the factory they have no control over how it is managed. So, maybe this all was covered before. I agree there should be a sole source for fuel which would eliminate any perceived fuel advantage; however, fuel could still be sampled to ensure it was not tampered with. But one thing does come to mind, how were the samples pulled and were they treated as a sterile sample? Could they have been mishandled along the way from the track to the lab? It just appears to me that the 3 stooges are running the AMA and can't make up their collective minds on how to best run it...just my thoughts...take them for what they are worth. :blah: :blah: :blah: