Walker Valley Scottish Trials/poker run

[Highbeam]

I like this riding area. It is several hours to drive there so I want the ride to be worth the trip.

The poker run is 15, yes 15, miles. If I want to be a trials rider I get another 15 miles on the expert loop.

So has anyone ridden this event in the past? My question is - are we talking about riding a trials bike up vertical faces? or are we talking about something my xr400 can do?

It would be cool if they just made a little special test where it was hard to ride through but possible on a dirtbike without touching your feet.

The flyer does not answer these important (to me) questions. I would hate to skip a new kind of riding event because I was uninformed.

Thanks

 

[fishhead]

Its not a pure trials course, it's designed for offroad bikes, your xr400 will be fine, last year in the snow it was a good workout. You'll definantly want to ride the expert loop to savor the full experience. There is nothing like it.

The format last year was like a poker run with test sections. You are timed through the sections and penalized for dabs, stalls, etc. If you like the area you'll love the event. I won't be able to make it as I have a wedding anniversary to attend and my wife will be insanly jealous if I spend it with K.T.eMma. ;)

 

[Hondaxrguy]

It sounds like a lot of fun! When is it?

Jeremy

 

[fishhead]

This sunday at the Walker valley ORV parking area 8am sign up first rider out at 9:00 and last rider out at 10:00

 

[Tod]

:yeehaw: good fun :yeehaw:

 

[fishhead]

So, anyone make it?

How was it?

 

[Highbeam]

It was nice. The "expert" ride was 2-18 mile loops and 5 special tests. The riders backed up at each of the tests so there was a lot of time spent waiting aound. You would think that once we all wait our turn at the first test and then leave for the second that the spacing would work out and we would feel alone on the trail. Anyway, the first test was a log teeter totter deal before and after weaving through cones. The rest were natural obstacles. One of them I couldn't finish because it was too hard and the other I crashed and snapped the clutch lever but coasted the bike in neutral to the finish line. The bike was damaged but dang it I was determined to try every test.

The trail was nice burly single track between tests and the "all skill levels" poker run was total BS. There were kids on XR50s trying to get through this stuff, not cool and I'm sure they had a less than good experience.

It was nice to be on a trail that wasn't built to be wheelchair accessible like most of Tahuyah seems to be, you had to work for it the whole time.

Nice weather, nice riders, and nice trail. What else would you want to do on a spring Sunday?

 

[bbbom]

Originally posted by Highbeam
What else would you want to do on a spring Sunday?

Learn how to ride trials in Tennessee!! ;) Only problem with that is now we are hooked and our vintage trials bikes just won't do!!! Maybe we should have stayed on our trail bikes like you did Highbeam. I was wondering where you were trials riding from your post in the Enduro School thread.

 

[Tod]

:yeehaw: plenty-o-fun :yeehaw:

"all skill levels" poker run

Sure hope the flyer didn't say that. It definately wasn't and that's why I didn't bring my daughter.
It wasn't bad as one of the first bikes out, but after the second time through the "poker racers" had left their mark and after the event was done a lot of trail was less than pretty. Once again plently of repair work for the Skagit MC.

too hard

Don't feel bad, the legendary Malcolm Smith said the same thing.

177 riders maxed out Walker Valley's trailhead, where did you park?
I got there a 5:45am and still had to park acrossed the road from the trailhead.

Overall, the special sections were classic Walker Valley :p

 

[Highbeam]

I have never been impressed with the walker valley parking situation so I got there just after 7:30 I have a trailer so I knew I was going to have to work to park. I was lucky and just around the first corner after the camping/main parking area I pulled off on the right side facing uphill. Nice wide pullout, I felt real lucky to get it. When I went to leave I had a very hard time getting turned around but it worked out. Did you see my dark blue chev with the stained plywood trailer?

The flyer did say something to the effect of "all skill levels", I think they were trying to lure people that were afraid of the trials ride.

Did they post the results? Once again, I couldn't/didn't wait around for them.

If it wasn't for the bike damage, the ride would have been perfect. Everything has been repaired now and I am ready for Saturday's thrashing.

One more strange thing. My buddy rides a WR426 with one of the FMF pipes on it. He tested at 97 Db at the spark plug enduro and blew a 104 at the trials event. They almost didn't let him ride. There was a lot of background noise and they didn't even know my XR was running until I pointed at my headlight. Shouldn't the test be sort of standardized?

Shelton Valley!

 

[Tod]

tested at 97 Db at the spark plug enduro and blew a 104 at the trials event.

Someone's blowin' somethin' fer sure.

They did send six riders home home for being too loud.

If the Skagit Motorcycle Club let him participate he was very close to 98.
That gang is on top of the noise issue and he may have started out too loud and they might have helped him get it quieted down. I know the had muffler packing and some expert help readily available.

The results were posted. I didn't get a spreadsheat this year yet. Aaron Wilson won the overall, wuppin' the trials bikers. Beth Neff won the short course and I got (possible sandbagger) second. I rode the expert sections and a second loop anyway and that was way more fun, even on an old XR.


The parking issue is a real sore spot for me. I was on the committee created to design a new trailhead three years ago and put a buttload of hours into reseach and design. The DNR spent thousands on planning and what did they do? Your tax dollars at work once again (sore subject, I won't start tonight . . .)

 

[fishhead]

104 is honkin loud if he blew a 97 at the Plug, Did he ride Shelton?

The comments on the sound issue piqued my interest since I get some pretty wide variances on my sound tests but I'm well within the parameters, 86 - 92 db depending on who does the test. the 6 db doesn't sound like much but since the db scale is logrithmic every 3 db doubles the sound pressure or loudness.

I noticed that the events use a vibratach and a sound meter with an A and C weighted scale. Potential erroneous readings can and will occurr If the tach checker runs the rpm above the test rpm, which is easy to do, and as the rpm drops tells the person monitoring the db meter OK! The results are skewed because the db meter is averaging the sound at the higher rpm. on three consecutive tests I got a 92, 90 and 87. I blew a 92 at the plug, 86 at the run on saturday and 90 on sunday morning, same packing, jetting etc. Four strokes have a more defined exhaust note so the results are skewed higher with sloppy testing than with the 2 strokes. To get an accurate reading the rpm has to be held at the specified rpm till the time weighted average is nullified. This will take up to several seconds depending on the scale seleted. The scale selected also selects which frequencies are targeted or weighted by the meter.

Practicle considerations are that most checkers are volunteering to do a thankless job and don't have a lot of understanding on what those lever positions on the sound meter control. They are likely told ' don't touch them" but you can't be sure. You also notice the length of the lines for sound checks and how eager checkers are to get a bunch of people through as fast as possible. In addition, uncorked yz/wr's have come under a lot of scrutiny because of some bad publicity and the attitude of a few riders.

If you have good reason to believe the bike should pass you might ask the checker for future reference what scale the meter is set at, "A" or "C" and if the Time Weighted Average is on and request a retest with the sound test taken after the specifed rpm is held for 5 seconds.

The NMA has adopted some industry standards for the test so the info will probably be available. I'll do a little digging and see what I can find. For now I think its risky to be close to the limit.

Sound tests are going to be around foe a long time and the forest sevice recently adopted more stringent regs on sound so the Quiet series of exhausts are going to be more popular.

 

[Highbeam]

No the "loud" WR426 didn't come out to Shelton. Sound tests were at the sparkplug(97) and the trials event (104). The yamaha was a canadian bike so the previous owner bought a replacement muffler to get the USFS spark arrestor. He chose an FMF power core. Not overly loud, nothing like an uncorked WR and it has the legal spark arrestor. Nothing like the loudness of the white bros e-series with 12 discs that my XR had. Anybody want a once used canadian WR 426 muffler?

When testing the WR, the trials event guys swayed back and forth and said we'll give you a 102 and that was "passing". The trials flyer said sound test per NMA standards. I have often seen the 98 water cooled and 102 air cooled figures. The WR has not been changed (muffler packing, jetting, tuning) since he bought it and somehow the 104 became passing at the trials event. He was not advised on how to quiet the bike or given another chance. It was a drive through deal. If he was required to fix it or not ride, I would have tried pulling a sock over the outlet or some other redneck fix. Can you picture 5 socks duct taped to the muffler?

The sparkplug guys tested away from the crowds in a quieter place near the trees. Seemed like the trials event took the test in the loudest possible place against the broad side of a pickup truck.

I like quiet bikes. I blow between an 82 and an 85. It may not be cool but the bike has plenty of power, runs good, and I do not receive complaints.

My gripe is the 7 Db difference which comes to more than 4 times the sound energy released depending on who takes the test. The WR owner could have been sent home without being able to ride and without getting his money back despite a passing test at another location.

 

[fishhead]

The sound tests will cause a bit of controversy till things get sorted out. Unfortunantly many people aren't aware of how different frequencies resonate in different enviorments and the 4 strokes will be the hardest hit as the lower frequencies resonate in much larger areas with much more amplification than higher frequencies. My highest reading was taken under a popup which will amplify certain frequencies. :think: If a side or two is added by being next to a truck or trailer then you are in effect testing in a horn or sound box.

 

[Tod]

white bros e-series with 12 discs that my XR had.

I blow between an 82 and an 85.

same bike?

 

[Highbeam]

Yes sir, same bike. 2001 XR400R.

I bought it early this year with the newly installed 12-disc WB e-series. It was rejetted and was dang snappy. It really hurt my head, really, I was considering earplugs.

The WB is adjustable so I took out all but the minimum 4 discs and rejetted. The bike was a little less snappy and not much quieter. I was still ashamed to ride it, especially around my neighborhood. I never really messed with bike jetting before and it seemed to also have developed a dead spot at mid throttle.

I wanted to ride a dependable, easy starting, quiet bike. Seems like Honda made the XR to do that from the factory. Why the heck not go back to stock? It took 30 minutes to slip the stock muffler back on and rejet the carb to stock while the carb was still on the bike. Why was I cursed with huge hands? The bike started right up and ran smooth and strong, not as snappy but still strong. The best thing was the sound level low, to mid 80s.

I never had a sound test with the WB muffler on. Looks like it is going to ebay.

Now if I can only figure out where all the engine oil is going I will be in business.

Fishhead, my other buddy that you met on Sunday also has a WR426 with a strangely modified US stock exhaust. His blew a 95.

 

[fishhead]

Under current MNA rules you are allowed 2 retests before a DQ. Walker was not an NMA event so it's the the clubs choice how they enforce the sound limits pursuant to their NMA charter requirements. They are required to enforce sound rules in order to keep their NMA Club status.

Doug and I are going to pull the sound meter and equipment out and try to isolate the offending frequencies by conducting some tests. Once we know what frequencies are dominant and what the test criteria is we will have a good idea of things that would adversly affect test results. For example, a 100 cycle sound wave is 11ft long and will readily couple with objects to amplify the sound pressure with 2nd,3rd and 4th order harmonics. Flat surfaces at angles close to 90 degress and tighter are most efficient reflectors of sound energy. Longer waves tend to couple with objects more readily than short waves and they tend to travel much farther. You might have noticed that you can hear the four strokes from farther away than the 2 strokes when you're riding and that it's not always easy to tell if their in front of you or behind you. This is the unidirectional characteristic of the lower frequecy sound waves.

The irony is that the same energy that is harnessed in the exhaust system to tune the exhaust for the desired power is whats causing the uproar once it gets outside the pipe. The manufactures have the most resources and recently have made some great strides in pipe/silencer design that have less compromise as Highbeam noted on his XR.

Just a hint that a long turn 90 elbow on a WR/YZ will direct sound energy toward the ground where it will have a more difficult time coupling with other objects and reflections will be directed toward free air. ;) This might be worth a couple or three db. :thumb: That might help get those cheater bikes past the tech and keep the ground pounders happy.