nephron

Dr. Feel Good
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jun 15, 2001
2,552
0
I want to revisit this since recent consensus recommendations have been made by nephrologists other than myself, in case some of you think I'm a quack. We've talked briefly about this before, and I'm sure most were left without a clear answer as to how much water you should drink when working out or riding. This time, I'm going to copy and paste from my CD "Up To Date", which I get every 6 months to update me on topics from Cardiology to Heme-Onc. This is an unbiased, fair presentation of information and I trust it very much. This information confirms what I've said before.

But to preceed it, I thought you might like to know that a well known water company sponsored a marathon in San Diego about the time I was there and passed out free water. About 30 runners ended up in UCSD's ER with severe hyponatremia, several of them seizing, etc. Death is not all that rare in these scenarios. Hyponatremia is a low serum sodium concentration caused to an excess accumulation of water.

I also want to warn you of an article that was in RacerX or on their website written by an exercise 'gooroo' that has no scientific, analytical, clinical or otherwise training in human health concepts and specifically salt and water balance. The guy ought to be shot for the s**t he's spewing from his polluted traphole. And yes, I'd LOVE to debate the guy in any public forum, anywhere.

Here it is. Remember, this isn't coming from the quack. It's just the same thing I was saying before.



Exercise-induced hyponatremia — Ultramarathon and marathon runners may replace their dilute, but sodium-containing sweat losses with excessive amounts of hypotonic solutions, with the net effect being a reduction in the plasma sodium concentration [3-6]. A similar sequence can occur during military operations and desert hikes. Such individuals may also be taking NSAIDs, which can impair the excretion of free water [4]. (see "NSAIDs: Electrolyte complications", section on hyponatremia).

Excessive hypotonic fluid intake may have a greater role than sodium loss and increased ADH levels, mimicking some of the findings of primary polydipsia [5-8]. In a prospective study of 488 runners who completed the Boston marathon (approximately 42.2 kilometers), 13 and 0.6 percent had post-race plasma sodium concentrations of 135 meq/L and 120 meq/L, respectively [5]. The most important factors underlying hyponatremia were increased weight gain and race time. Of those who gained 2.0 to 2.9 kg and over 3 kg, approximately 10 and 30 percent had plasma sodium concentration 130 meq/L. Those patients with a race time greater than four hours had an odds ratio of 7.4 for hyponatremia compared to those with a race time below 3.5 hours. Theoretically, those who take longer to complete a run have a longer time to ingest hypotonic fluid [5].

In contrast, a similar study of New Zealand marathon runners reported no cases of hyponatremia [6]. As observed with the Boston marathon study, plasma sodium concentrations were directly related to changes in weight. Possible reasons for the difference in prevalence of hyponatremia in the two studies is that aggressive hydration was not promoted in New Zealand, and hydration stations were significantly fewer (one every 5 versus 1.6 km).

We can make the following general recommendations for preventing hyponatremia related to prolonged exertion: Avoid fixed, global recommendations for water intake, since there are varying rates of water and sodium loss with different body types, training regimens and climates. Athletes should rely on thirst as their guide for fluid replacement. Athletes should monitor weight before and after training sessions as a guide to appropriate fluid consumption, with the goal to avoid weight gain. Medical personnel should avoid hypotonic intravenous solutions in individuals with exertion-related collapse, especially if the serum sodium concentration is not known.

In 2005, a consensus conference published guidelines concerning the evaluation and management of exercise-induced hyponatremia [8]. The following recommendations were made: Onsite analysis of serum or plasma sodium should be performed at medical facilities at endurance events. if the medical staff is experienced in treating hyponatremia in the field, any patient with exercise-induced hyponatremia and respiratory insufficiency, confusion, obtundation, nausea, and vomiting can be administered 100 mL of 3 percent sodium chloride over ten minutes. This maneuver should raise the plasma sodium concentration an average of 2 to 3 meq/L and should not pose a substantial danger.

This initial strategy is intended to stabilize the athlete prior to transfer to the hospital. Further treatment of symptomatic patients is the same as for any cause of symptomatic hyponatremia [8]. (See "Treatment of hyponatremia").
 

RM_guy

Moderator
Damn Yankees
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Nov 21, 2000
7,045
208
North East USA
Thanks for the info. I realize everyone is different but is their a guide as to how much straight water you can drink per hour per body weight during heavy exersize? Using thirst as a guide is good but when I'm riding hard for an extended time I don't realize how thirsty I am until I stop. By that time I may have missed any clues as to when to drink.
 

High Lord Gomer

Poked with Sticks
Sep 26, 1999
11,790
34
I can't imagine drinking too much water. I sweat like a pig and am *always* low on water after a day of severe activity. I can't imagine gaining weight while running / riding...I have dropped more than 10 pounds in a day of riding on several occasions. After a day or so of rehydrating I'm usually back up to within a pound or two of my previous weight.
 

Masterphil

DRN's Resident Lunatic
Member
Aug 3, 2004
1,003
0
Being a Bio Major, the topic of osmoregulation is pretty interesting to me.

Salt/electrolite balance is some serious stuff! Without the proper balance, neurons (both muscle and nervous) don't work at their optimum levels, or even at all. Keep in mind that you are not only sweating out water but various electrolites that are very important to peak neuron performance, and if that balance is too far out of wack, your body stops working alltogether. If you don't believe me, lick youself sometime. I bet it is pretty salty tasting. Our bodies aren't designed to handle these extreme variances in the salinity of our IC/ECF (intracellular or extracellular fluid), that's why we can't effectively drink saltwater, nor would you live long drinking only deionized water.

Nephron, so the general idea here is to NOT consume an excess ammount of hypotonic fluid. What about Iso or hypertonic fluid such as gatorade? It seems to me that the ideal situation would be to consume a fluid that is isotonic to the IC/ECF that a particular indivijual has. Are sports drinks like gatorade, etc. an Isotonic fluid, or do they overcompensate to a degree?

The whole idea of losing water weight dosen't really fit in with this topic. The weight that you were losing was water that is bound to glycogen that is stored in your liver. This is the short-term emergency energy reserve that your body uses when you demand that it perform more activity than normal for an extended period of time (riding all day). Your body does this because glycogen is much more easily metabolized than fat. Someone who regularly exersizes will not see a weight loss like this because their body has been accustomed to this ammount of energy damand. This is the same reason that if you begin an exersize program, during the first couple of weeks, you will see a rapid weight loss. (water from the liver bound to glycogen) But soon after, you will begin to gain weight again, or at least stop losing weight. (your body replacing the water and glycogen back to your liver) Shortly after, you will start to lose weight fairly linerly. (your body is now burning fat instead of using glucogon).
 
Last edited:

RM_guy

Moderator
Damn Yankees
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Nov 21, 2000
7,045
208
North East USA
High Lord Gomer said:
I can't imagine drinking too much water. I sweat like a pig and am *always* low on water after a day of severe activity. I can't imagine gaining weight while running / riding...I have dropped more than 10 pounds in a day of riding on several occasions. After a day or so of rehydrating I'm usually back up to within a pound or two of my previous weight.
I sweat like a Gomer ( :laugh: ) too and I also drink a lot of water. I also am prone to bad muscle cramps toward the end of a long ride and am wondering if the lack or imbalance of salt/electrolites is causing it.
 

High Lord Gomer

Poked with Sticks
Sep 26, 1999
11,790
34
Hmmm....so losing all that weight is because I'm an out-of-shape, lazy SOB most of the time? OUCH!

RM_Nancy...I have a different theory about your cramping... :o
 

Masterphil

DRN's Resident Lunatic
Member
Aug 3, 2004
1,003
0
HLG, well if you put it that way, then yes... Unless you train everyday as hard as you ride on the weekends, this will happen. I like to think of myself as in good shape, but it happens to me too.

I think that the cramping issue is more lactic acid buildup than electrolite balance, but I believe that HLG is implying that you are a sissy girl. Not my place to make such a judgement, but it is funny.
 

nephron

Dr. Feel Good
LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jun 15, 2001
2,552
0
Are sports drinks like gatorade, etc. an Isotonic fluid, or do they overcompensate to a degree?

Gatorade is still hypotonic, and you can equally well use it drink yourself into a brain-edema inducing stuporous coma. ;) Don't believe the shat about it being salt-repleting...it simply ain't.

Let's see: Wikipedia says Gatorade has 464mg/L sodium, 129mg/L Potassium (don't count carbs as they're burned off and leave you with, effectively, free water). That's 20 meq Na/L (MW=23g/mol) and 3 meq/L potassium (39g/mol). 23meq/L of cation or total non-glucose osmolality of 46mosm/L. That's is less than sweat, chief.

Sweat is 50meq/L Na, 5meq/L K, or 110mOsm/L. Serum is 300.

In other words, if all you did was replace your sweat with gatorade, your sodium would drop, because you'd be repleting yourself with a solution 1/2 the osmolality of sweat.

I'll see if I can come across some seriously useful information in cut and dried fashion---x number of hours, x number of liters, x mgNa, etc.
 
Top Bottom