Welding to the frame.
- Thread starter jmutiger
- Start date
Take off the gas tank and carb and seal the intake with a plastic bag and cover that with a clean rag. You're not gong to hurt anything electronic related. The danger when welding is from a gas fire and explosion.
This may seem over cautious to some. Just my 2 cents.
This may seem over cautious to some. Just my 2 cents.
Welding [arc, mig, & tig] uses low voltage at very hign currents. The workpiece acts like a capacitor with billions of exectrons flowing in & out of it as the arc is made / broken. This can damage engine ball bearings as there is a very small point contact with a large metal mass on both sides. A good mechanic will remove the engine before welding on a vehicle.
clutchcover
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- Feb 21, 2002
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It won't hurt any electrical. My dad welds for a living and welds my bikesall the time. If you are away from ball bearing where heat can't fry the grease, and them, you are ok.
jmutiger,
Yes, take the CDI off. Not worth the risk of arcing it, and yes it can be damaged.
Robcolo makes a very good point, and it is quite correct. However if you are grounded close to the weld, the chances of bearings elsewhere being fried are slim....but to be safe, taking the motor out would be your safest course of action. clutchcover, your Dads expertise does not qualify you to make such a statement. You may have arced bearings and not know it.
Jason, on a steel frame, I would suggest a mig weld. However a good stick welder who prepares properly can do a good job too. I never do trust gas welding for something that is going to be for added structural integrity.
Yes, take the CDI off. Not worth the risk of arcing it, and yes it can be damaged.
Robcolo makes a very good point, and it is quite correct. However if you are grounded close to the weld, the chances of bearings elsewhere being fried are slim....but to be safe, taking the motor out would be your safest course of action. clutchcover, your Dads expertise does not qualify you to make such a statement. You may have arced bearings and not know it.
Jason, on a steel frame, I would suggest a mig weld. However a good stick welder who prepares properly can do a good job too. I never do trust gas welding for something that is going to be for added structural integrity.
Milquetoast
Uhhh...
- Oct 30, 2001
- 912
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This pains me greatly, but I have to agree with Jaybird. :) It is possible to damage the electronics, even if only a small possibility. It takes only a minute or two to unplug the electrical boxes so just play it safe and do it before the welding. Taking the motor out is massive overkill though, don't bother with that part.
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That motor costs alot more than that CDI box. Take out the engine if you want to be sure.
Hang around and keep an open mind, Milquecarton....there may be several things you will agree with me on in the future. Although I realise it is hard for geese to stray from the gaggle.
Hang around and keep an open mind, Milquecarton....there may be several things you will agree with me on in the future. Although I realise it is hard for geese to stray from the gaggle.
Milquetoast
Uhhh...
- Oct 30, 2001
- 912
- 0
If we both live another hundred years maybe! :moon:
clutchcover
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- Feb 21, 2002
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Jaybird, you are right, my dads expertise does not qualify me. But I must say, I have never had anything happen caused from welding. I do not ever expect anyone to do what I say, and I want people to take what I say with a grain of salt. If someone were to take my advise and it messed up there bikes, I would be very upset with myself. I guess it all comes down to what risks someone is willing to take and the measures they will take to be safe. Sorry if those statements angered you Jaybird, didn't mean to stir the pot.
- Thread starter
- #12
Thanks guys..
I'll be doing it tomorrow, and I'll simply pull all the boxes I can.. I don't think I can get the coil off in the time I have.. I'm just gonna yank the 2 which are on top of the airbox lid.. Sound good?
This is a breaktime project at work for this weekend, not a yanking of the engine job.
I'll be having it Tig'ed or Mig'ed, depending on who does the welding.
Thanks!
Jon!
I'll be doing it tomorrow, and I'll simply pull all the boxes I can.. I don't think I can get the coil off in the time I have.. I'm just gonna yank the 2 which are on top of the airbox lid.. Sound good?
This is a breaktime project at work for this weekend, not a yanking of the engine job.
I'll be having it Tig'ed or Mig'ed, depending on who does the welding.
Thanks!
Jon!
clutchcover,
lol... I'm not one bit angry. Does the way I post make it seem so?
I've welded since I was a little kid and have certification on a couple of methods and positions, and I have seen things happen that you wouldn't think possible. The slightest arcing of a ball bearing and race may not even be visible to the eye, but the change in the metal that occurs can be catostophic in some instances. I've seen some high dollar machinery bite the dust as a result.
Just friendly debate, my friend. :)
lol... I'm not one bit angry. Does the way I post make it seem so?
I've welded since I was a little kid and have certification on a couple of methods and positions, and I have seen things happen that you wouldn't think possible. The slightest arcing of a ball bearing and race may not even be visible to the eye, but the change in the metal that occurs can be catostophic in some instances. I've seen some high dollar machinery bite the dust as a result.
Just friendly debate, my friend. :)
Ive seen a motor die because of the bearings arcing, the ding dong was welding on his exhaust and had the ground hooked to the frame (on a truck), juice found its way through the bearings and they welded themselves together. You just gotta be carefull, get a good ground as close to the weld as possible, and you are fine. you dont really need to remove the electronic boxes completely, just disconnect them. either way though its better than risking them for a $5 set of buddy pegs.
jaguar
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You asked if a fat hoe would bend the subframe. Well, most of the weight is on the seat except for when she's mounting. I had a really heavy woman ride on the back and she didn't bend anything. Don't worry about it.
- Thread starter
- #19
Follow up FYI..
The pegs are on, but they really aren't going to be very useful. They aren't very strong, and they flex pretty badly.
The welding went okay.. BUT I'm gonna have to grind these things off, as they interfere with my kickstarting ability, and my boots.. And to top it all off, they aren't even at the same place fore-aft.. The sub frame is quite different on both sides of the bike.
Anyways, welding it wasn't a problem, but they aren't going to help much.. Another make work project.
Jon!
The pegs are on, but they really aren't going to be very useful. They aren't very strong, and they flex pretty badly.
The welding went okay.. BUT I'm gonna have to grind these things off, as they interfere with my kickstarting ability, and my boots.. And to top it all off, they aren't even at the same place fore-aft.. The sub frame is quite different on both sides of the bike.
Anyways, welding it wasn't a problem, but they aren't going to help much.. Another make work project.
Jon!
Phillip,
A 6011 is a mild steel rod. For welding steel that you want to be strong (structural integrity) you would be better off using a 7018 (low hydrogen) rod. However, anyone can run a 6011...it takes a welder to run a 7018.
A good wire weld would be the best solution on almost all dirtbike frame repairs.
Oh btw...amperage will depend on the diameter of the rod.
A 6011 is a mild steel rod. For welding steel that you want to be strong (structural integrity) you would be better off using a 7018 (low hydrogen) rod. However, anyone can run a 6011...it takes a welder to run a 7018.
A good wire weld would be the best solution on almost all dirtbike frame repairs.
Oh btw...amperage will depend on the diameter of the rod.
It's held togeather my frame, my Da's canoe racks on his truck and alot of the stuff I welded in the Army. 6011 is a great all around rod. That's what it is......A general purpose rod. If you want to get into spec.'s than name your flavor. I have yet to see another rod perform as well for the $ as that.
Amps do depend on the diameter of the rod, but for an average 6011 rod of maybe a standard diameter of 1/4(I may be wrong, it has been a few years) inch I would think that 45-60 amps would be fine for steel frames......Considering that most frames are relatively(sp) thin. Thicker diameters call for higher amps.
JayBird,
I can't wait to meet you! Dooode You and I have so much to talk about! wheather it's about welding or riding you and I have the same mind!
Phillip
Phillip, we sure can talk, but try to leave welding out of it man! You seem to be lacking what it takes to talk about it. :)
Just pulling your chain a bit, but seriously you are clueless from what I'm reading. For one thing, you won't even get a spark if you are trying to weld with ANY 1/4" rod at 40-50 amps.
As an example, when I weld on say...1/4" plate with a 5/32" 6011 rod, it will require about 150-180 amps.
For dirtbike frames an 1/8" rod is sufficient. And yes, a 6011 will hold, but it is not the best choice. A 7018 is designed to have more structural integrity and should be used in such a situation.
I was installing a work platform several years ago with a guy and he can weld ok, but not the best...I asked him what rod he used ( I noticed he used a downhill pass...I won't go into it but it aint proper) he said "a 6011, and it will hold the moon!" Well we had hoisted a 2500lb piece of machinery onto this platform and it gave way just as we put the full weight on it. The platform didn't fall all the way out, but we were 30ft in the air and I headed for the building steel. (imagine a monkey climbing for the last coconut on earth)
Moral: unless you absolutely, positively know what you are doing do not weld anything that counts. Leave it to those who do.
Just pulling your chain a bit, but seriously you are clueless from what I'm reading. For one thing, you won't even get a spark if you are trying to weld with ANY 1/4" rod at 40-50 amps.
As an example, when I weld on say...1/4" plate with a 5/32" 6011 rod, it will require about 150-180 amps.
For dirtbike frames an 1/8" rod is sufficient. And yes, a 6011 will hold, but it is not the best choice. A 7018 is designed to have more structural integrity and should be used in such a situation.
I was installing a work platform several years ago with a guy and he can weld ok, but not the best...I asked him what rod he used ( I noticed he used a downhill pass...I won't go into it but it aint proper) he said "a 6011, and it will hold the moon!" Well we had hoisted a 2500lb piece of machinery onto this platform and it gave way just as we put the full weight on it. The platform didn't fall all the way out, but we were 30ft in the air and I headed for the building steel. (imagine a monkey climbing for the last coconut on earth)
Moral: unless you absolutely, positively know what you are doing do not weld anything that counts. Leave it to those who do.
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