what type of oil ??

[2stroke125]

i have a 82 suzuki rm 125 2 stroke liquid cooled bike, and NO there is no manual for it.....and im curious what kinda oil should i use??? i have been useing 80-90 quaker state diff oil since about july of this summer.... and have changed the oil maybe 3-4times... but what kinda should i use or is the kind im using ok for it now ?? also a few guys say i should be using 10-40 in my bike??? and i have no idea LOL....... but what should it be and why ? thanks rob

 

[2smokers]

10w-40 is just fine

 

[2stroke125]

ya ok cool, cuz i have been having a problem with it, noticed yesterday that when i go to hammer on it that when i shift and TRY to go through the gears it liek the power form the motor isnt getting transfered or planted to the ground nor to the rear tire, liek normally my biek spins liek crazy going through the gears and now it doesnt spin at all, BUT if i baby it and take it easy and slowly open the throttle it is ok for hooking and going, and then she has the pick up and go it should, alotta ppl thought maybe i dont have the proper gear oil in it, which im using 80-90 diff fluid, and a couple other say wrong oil and clutch is slipping, and the guy that fix's my bike when i cant said the clutch plates might be stuck together again or are burnt, or the other possibility is tranny issue's:(

 

[mojonito]

i like extra virgin :laugh:

 

[kx125412]

use belray 80 90 not differential fluid and change your oil every 5 rides at least, but drain the oil thats in there now and check your clutch basket for grooves and check your plates to see if they are sticking.

 

[mdkuder]

When I rode 2 strokes I used Bel-Ray Gearsaver and it never let me down.

 

[John Cena]

Just make sure the 10w40 doesnt have friction modifiers.

 

[2stroke125]

ya kk cool, im gonna stick with 80-90 cuz 10-40 will give me premature clutch wear, cuz the 80-90 when it heats up lubes it properly compraed to the 10-40 would..... and also it seems that i may need new clutch plates..... it getting looked at 2morrow so i will know what the deal is with it 2morrow hopefully just the plates :cool:

 

[mtk]

ya kk cool, im gonna stick with 80-90 cuz 10-40 will give me premature clutch wear, cuz the 80-90 when it heats up lubes it properly compraed to the 10-40 would.....

I don't know where you found this nugget of wisdom, but I wouldn't put too much stock in it myself.

 

[2stroke125]

but 80-90 is ok for it tho right ??

 

[Jaybird]

Just make sure the 10w40 doesnt have friction modifiers.

It never fails.
There is always someone who feels it's their duty to make this warning.
Just what friction modifiers should we be avoiding, John...and why?

 

[Yz250JdT250]

You need to put wet clutch oil in it. around 75-90w. Since youve been putting diff oil in it the clutch is most likely worn out. :nener: So just get oil that specifies wet clutch and maybe a new clutch if it is worn and you should be fine. Clutches wear out especially on 125's anyway becuase of all the feathering you need to do to get into the powerband immediately.

 

[Firedude]

It never fails.
There is always someone who feels it's their duty to make this warning.
Just what friction modifiers should we be avoiding, John...and why?

The oils with the sunbirst logo that says safe for gasoline engines is the oil they are talking about. Most new automotive oils contain it. Motorcycle specific oils will usually say if they are safe for wet clutches. Honda has a specific oil for the 4 stroke engine that states it will not work with wet clutches for example. Never use differential oil by the way.

 

[2stroke125]

oh ok, but will it hurt the motor or anything with the quaker state 80-90 oil ??? and maybe i will go to the suzuki dealership and grab the proper oil for it..

 

[Firedude]

It probably glazed the clutch discs and possibly plates. I would replace them with factory pieces. I would also flush it first. Change oil to a motorcycle specific oil (some use auto transmission oil with good success)and ride till it gets good and warm then change it again with the clutch replacement. Also, soak the new discs for a hour or so in clean oil you are going to be using.

 

[2stroke125]

hey well we figured that i was missing shifts cuz the shifter was all bent to hell and was rubbing on the side of my motor plus my rear tire is worn down, so we think that it spinning and im not noticing but he checked it all out and seems to be doign good so he gave me the biek for the weekend and see how it rides and if it still does it he is gonna do a more indepth search on it nexrt week so hopefully it runs good:D and im gonna get some 80 gearsaver oil from suzuki dealer tonight

 

[Jaybird]

Differential oil probably has a good dose of molybdenum disulfide powder in the mix.
This element is commanly placed into gear oils, chain lubes, and greases.
It can, and most likely will, make a clutch slip as it will tend to glaze the clutch plates.

However, the form of molybdenum (moly) we see in engine oils is different. It has been proven to not effect the action of a wet clutch to any great degree unless used in a very high concentration, and in conjunction with a very thin oil base.

When we see the API starburt on the back of an oil bottle that states "Energy Conserving" it only means one thing. The level of phosphorus has been reduced from previous formulations.
It also implies that the oil maker placed some sort of component in the oil that serves as an Anti-wear agent to make up for the loss of the phosphorus. (they may well not have added anything)
Btw..the EC rating and lowered phosphorus content is a bunch of hooey, if you ask me, as it is all because some studies showed that it could be detrimental to the catalytic converter of autos. However, unless your engine and cat are already clapped out for whatever reason, I haven't seen any evidence that there is much effect by raised levels of phosphorus. But I digress...

Some of the oil blenders were using moly as a replacement for the lowered amounts of phosphorus. The word "moly" for some reason became synonomous with the term "Friction Modifier". And it sems that anyone who reads the words "friction modifier" has it in their head that the oil has moly added to it and it will foul up the action of a wet clutch.
Not the case. Especially since it was not the form of moly (MoS2) that I mentioned above that is in gear oil and grease, but rather moly in the MoTCD form that is shown to be fine for wet clutch use.

And moly isn't the only additive that oil blenders use to make up for the lack of phosphorus. There are a multitude of additives that can provide proper friction modification and extreme pressure lubrication. Some of them are solids, and others are not. Sometimes an oil blender will simply raise the level of another already used component.

The dealerspeak BS and track myths that came about as a result of these oil formulation changes is amazing.
But the fact is that you can probably use just about any EC rated oil on the shelf in your dirt bike and not see one bit of a problem from a machine that is within specs.
Many see trouble simply because they have a machine with glazed plates, or sacked out springs, amoung other reasons, and when they try a different oil the machine may well act up...as the oil they chose may well have exaggerated a pre-existing problem. But, of course the problem is blamed on the oil used.
Oh sure, one oil may make shifting feel different than another, but still is not detrimental to the clutch action.

Friction modifiers are not something to be afraid of. Folks simply don't understand what the term really implies.
But some of the oil formulators who provide moto-specific oils...for often 5 times the price of their auto, or diesel oil on the shelf next to them, love the fact that the consuming public is ignorant when it comes to oil. The track myths and dealerspeak BS lends itself to them making higher profits from selling you the moto-specific oils.

Now, that is not to say that some moto-specific oils are not good oils. Not at all.
I happen to think that Mobil Racing 4T (formally Mx4T) is a fine oil and built as well as one can be, using top notch bases oils and good levels of much needed additives. BUT, there are oils on the shelf for much less money that have been proved to perform every bit as good as the Racing 4T, for FAR less money.
There are also MA rated moto-specific oils that are crap compared to others.

Jaso MA ratings are merely a guide for the consumer who knows absolutely nothing about engine oils. It allows you to pick an oil that has passed certain qualifications and tests that show it to be within a certain standard on static and dynamic clutch action.
But just because an oil does not have the MA rating, does not mean it won't also pass the same tests and qualifications.
Nor does an oil with an Energy Conserving starburst mean it will automatically make your clutch slip.

Btw..I don't think you will find that Honda says their MB rated oils can NOT be used with a wet clutch. They only advise against it. But I can tell you first hand that you wouldn't be able to tell the MA from the MB rated Honda oils in a wet clutch.

 

[2stroke125]

got my bike back last night, and i drove it and it seems to still do it :yell: GRRRR!!!! the bike also started doing this a little bit before the diff oil went in it the diff oil is only been in it for about maybe 20-30mins oif riding IF THAT!!!! and it just like i go through the gears starting in 1st i shifted to 2nd it was fine and it tore my lawn up for about 10ft and like 1-2" deep but after that it stills seems to reving like crazy....and normally when the bike ran about a week ago or so, i was ONLY able to get into 2nd gear then i had to slow down, i could go in to 3rd gear but i would have to down shift right away and that was pushing it so i wouldnt go into the house or anything LOL, and now i can go through 1,2, and when i get into 3rd i can get half throttle then i left off, cuz im going a bit fast LOL, but i cant really tell if it spinning the tire that much or what.... like this bike has been done up and will stay up to a new 250 when riding, and the rear tire is a soft tire and getting worn down quite a bit, i dunno if the power and wore down tire have alot to do with it or not :think: but it really starting to tick me off cuz it only does it when i ride it and not when the mechanic rides it :coocoo:

P.S. i will take a pic of my rear tire today and post it later to show how tread is on it whether it makes a difference or not i dunno LOL

today im going to buy some oil from suzuki, didnt get there last night in time lol they recommended 80 gearsaver oil and they said the 80-90 they have is more for sahfts driven bikes and not really for wet clutchs, so im gonna grab soem do a oil change and see if it helps maybe even change it twice to try and flush the diff oil out...

 

[mtk]

When we see the API starburt on the back of an oil bottle that states "Energy Conserving" it only means one thing. The level of phosphorus has been reduced from previous formulations.
It also implies that the oil maker placed some sort of component in the oil that serves as an Anti-wear agent to make up for the loss of the phosphorus. (they may well not have added anything)

That isn't true, Jay.

The Energy Conserving rating comes from passing the Sequence VIB (that's 6-B) test, which is a fuel economy improvement test. No more and no less.

Phosphorus levels were reduced for the entire category so any SL oil will have reduced phosphorus.

I used to work in the engine oil testing industry so I know this crap all too well.

 

[2stroke125]

well i put in the 80 gearsaver oil didnt help, and now im getting new clutch plates for it :d hopefully that is the problem hehehe

 

[Dirtracer]

"Where did my post go from this morning?" It was the first post on page 2.....

 

[Rich Rohrich]

The first post on page 2 is from a week ago.

 

[kx125412]

If you get your new plates installed and it still does it, I'll bet anything its just the powerband kicking in. I have the same bike it and likes to rev really high. Thats why the mechanic probably doesnt notice anything wrong.

 

[Rhein]

I just put 10w-40 in my CR250, it is a whole other animal! It is smoother now with this compared to the OEM Honda stuff.

 

[Jaybird]

Yes, MTK, I agree with you.
The VI B (ASTM D 6837) Does indeed rate due to the fuel consumption seen when used with the oil, compared to a bench marked control oil.
From API:
Oils labeled as "Energy Conserving" have passed the test that measures an oil's ability to conserve energy. Widespread use of engine oils with this designation should result in an overall saving of fuel in the vehicle fleet as a whole, but a particular vehicle operator may not experience a fuel savings as a result of using these oils.

There was, and probably still is, some controvercy concerning the constantly changing data that the control oils have been exhibiting during the D6837 controls testing, which has been requiring the tested oils to meet increasingly stringent marks....but it really has no bearing on our discussion here.


But when we consider the ramifications of this certification on our sport (or more specifically how this effects use of these oils in a wet clutch situation), the requirements for reduced phosphorus levels are pertinent.
To qualify for the SL rating, I believe the *limitations on Phosphorus was set at .10%, and for the SM rating a further reduction to a .08% limitation was set.
*(ASTM D4951 / D5185)

The limitations set for these certification standards came about in part by testing conducted by Ford Motors on a taxi fleet, with emissions shown being effected by increased Phophorus levels in vehicles that had exceeded 100,000 miles.

The following is a bit of insight on the lowered Phosphorus levels:
http://www.savantgroup.com/ASTMSym04-PEI.pdf

As the API testing concerning Energy Conserving oils is in fact a test showing fuel economy prowess of an oil, rather than any sort of measured component level, but the part of the certification that is pertinent to us is the required reduction in Phosphorus levels, which IMO brought about the less-than-learned moly scare we see in each and every thread and discussion concerning this topic.