Which bike for single track trails?

Yamadad · Jul 18, 2005

I'm thinking about getting back to 2 smokes for an alternate ride. I ride mostly tight trails, rocky single track stuff (usually no more than 3rd gear).

I'm torn between a KDX220 and a lightly modified (99-02) KX250.

I realize both have different personalities and different strengths and weaknesses. I'm thinking the KDX needs suspension work with some mild power adjustments; the KX will need a flywheel, trails guards and possibly a dez tank.

(I used to own a KDX200, RMX250, and CR250 so I am familar with the breed.)

I'm older and don't race, but not totally slow yet. I need a bike with bottom end, but will snap me out of tight corners. I am limited to an '02 or older due to Kalifornia green sticker laws.

And, no, I don't want another KTM. Any other brands? Years?

Opinions????

xsnrg · Jul 18, 2005

KDX220, no doubt. KX250 is a great bike, but the single track is not its domain. There are few places a KDX220 could beat a KX250, but this is one of them (given same rider level). The 220 can grunt up through ruts and rocks like a 4stroke.

Airlooped · Jul 18, 2005

I purchased a new KX250 and modified it for woods riding with all sorts of goodies. It looked like a KDX on steroids. The most important mod was a 12oz flywheel. I KX power was fine after the flywheel mod and lower gearing but I could never get the suspension and handling sorted out (for its intended use). It was just too stiff. Furthermore, the bike seemed to have too long of wheelbase for tight riding. I took my KX to Baja and found its greatest weakness....the gearbox ratios are way too close for general off-road riding. To make the KX capable of 55 mph it made first gear too high for the tight technical stuff.

I just finished modifying a new KDX220 and I am taking it out for the first time this week. I think it will be a better bike for my Carolina woods riding. The six speed wide ratio transmission will be welcome. I hope it still gives me that two-stroke rush i crave.

xsnrg · Jul 18, 2005

Airlooped, you will love the new bike on the stuff that we ride (like Brown Mtn). You are going to miss the 2stroke rush, though coming off of a KX. I rode my buddy's YZ250 after my bike broke the last time out. WOW, it was tough for me to keep the front tire on the ground or the grin off of my face. But, given a day of woods riding, he can keep it and suffer, because as you found, it is tough to get an MX bike to behave as a good trail bike.

gwcrim · Jul 18, 2005

Personally, I think a KX500 makes a great woods bike. Just gear it down a bit and add a flywheel weight. You'll rarely need to get into the power band because it has such great bottom end power. But if you want to rocket away from the rest of the pack..... :p

(Oh, they're very reasonably priced too!)

hellrazor · Jul 18, 2005

Two strokes are very very difficult to ride in the woods,mainly because they were not designed for it,ive rode dirtbikes,and trailbikes which were 4 stroke that were 10 times eiaser riding in the woods.If you really want to have something for the woods that will go over logs, and big ruts that will crash a bike, big rocks, hual things,weave between trees really good in woods purchase a utiliy 4 wheeler(for the woods).Their great in woods,but not for speed.

rob129 · Jul 18, 2005

gwcrim said:
Personally, I think a KX500 makes a great woods bike. Just gear it down a bit and add a flywheel weight. You'll rarely need to get into the power band because it has such great bottom end power. But if you want to rocket away from the rest of the pack..... :p

(Oh, they're very reasonably priced too!)

Or any 2-stroke 500 for that matter. You dont have to rag em out for power and they can be john deere'd around. On the flip side its a dirt missle when the throttle is opened. They are also cheaper to maintain than a 250 and weigh close to the same. IMHO they are easier to ride that a 250 or 125.

dirt bike dave · Jul 18, 2005

Get the 250 and have the suspension revalved.

Detonator · Jul 18, 2005

Just curious why you exclude the KTM as a choice. My initial reaction was to suggest a 200 EXC, or 250 EXC if you're larger framed. Add hand guards and premix, and go riding.

Yamadad · Jul 18, 2005

Detonator said:
Just curious why you exclude the KTM as a choice. My initial reaction was to suggest a 200 EXC, or 250 EXC if you're larger framed. Add hand guards and premix, and go riding.

I have a KTM now and have decidedly mixed feelings about it. Basically, it is not as reliable as I want. Plus, the nearest KTM dealer is an hour and half drive from where I live. I am now constantly having to mail order parts, which has been all too often.

Yamadad · Jul 18, 2005

As to the 500cc land missles..... I've always wanted a CR500, but have been scared off by my different riding buddies who claim it is too much of too much. Especially for the trails I ride. I've had two different guys, whose opinion I trust, that have owned them; and they claimed it was too much bike.

CspineRider · Jul 18, 2005

hellrazor said:
Two strokes are very very difficult to ride in the woods,mainly because they were not designed for it,ive rode dirtbikes,and trailbikes which were 4 stroke that were 10 times eiaser riding in the woods.If you really want to have something for the woods that will go over logs, and big ruts that will crash a bike, big rocks, hual things,weave between trees really good in woods purchase a utiliy 4 wheeler(for the woods).Their great in woods,but not for speed.

I beg to differ, even though my first experience at single track riding was over the 4th of July in Kennedy Meadows, Ca. I thought I would be the only 2 stroke out there, everybody rides a 2 stroke up there. Now take into the consideration that the elevation is from 7500 to 9000 ft, so having a 2 stroke to jet properly with ease is the way to go. I would say 90% of the riders, also had KTM's, that seems to be the bike of choice for single track riding in my neck of the woods. You should stick with the 2 stroke in my opinion. My CR250 did great in single track. Here some goodies you should add to your bike if your going to mainly ride single track. Oh and all the places I know of for single track riding, quads are not allowed because the trails are not wide enough, and believe me they wouldnt make it 10 ft in Kennedy Meadows, and the rangers enforce the NO ATV rule

Handle bar guards - A must
skid plate - A must
Aluminum Rear Brake Guard/shark tooth - A must
Trip Computer or GPS - just in case you wonder off into nomans land.

CspineRider · Jul 18, 2005

"I am limited to an '02 or older due to Kalifornia green sticker laws"

I live in California as well, and as far as I know you have to have a 98 or older to get a grandfathered green sticker, thats why I bought a 97 CR250. Just a heads up. I would hate for you to buy a 02,01 or 00 and get hosed on the green sticker.

Bandit9 · Jul 18, 2005

I have an 02 KX250 with an Eric Gorr 310 kit, Revalved suspension, 12oz Flywheel weight, 3.1 IMS tank, and an EFM Auto Clutch. All I ride is tight single track. I added a tooth larger front sprocket (14) and the gearing is spaced pretty good. The 310 is loaded with torque, so it pulls the taller gearing with no problems. I have a 15t sprocket too, incase I want to hit the desert. I have no problems riding the bike, the Auto Clutch makes the tight stuff more enjoyable, it really doesn't need an auto clutch. The bike lugs down low like mothertrucker. I just wanted the ultimate Cadillac for the woods. The bike likes to eat rear tires a lot though. It is fun to roost that think in berms on sideways on fire roads.

What KTM do you have that we could maybe trade out?

I don't know what the other guy was saying, but Two strokes rule the woods. Check around at the local Enduros and the fast guys will be on 2 strokes. They are just easier to ride in the tight stuff. More reliable too. They start great. Seem like they weigh a 1oo lbs less when you are riding it. Lafferty will win on his 400 but he could win it on a 250exc just as easy.
The KX500 would do well too. You can tune them down by retarding the timing a degree or 2. KDX220 can do well too, just needs work in the bottom end and suspension. I hear a Gnarly torque pipe really wakes up the 220.
Good luck to you and let me know if you want some pics of my Cadilac KX310 blanco9@att.net

rob129 · Jul 19, 2005

Yamadad said:
As to the 500cc land missles..... I've always wanted a CR500, but have been scared off by my different riding buddies who claim it is too much of too much. Especially for the trails I ride. I've had two different guys, whose opinion I trust, that have owned them; and they claimed it was too much bike.

Nothing to be scared of. A CR500 is extremely reliable has a lot of low end grunt and pretty good power on top. I eased past a friend on a 98 RM250...he was in 5th and on the pipe..I was in 4th...clicked into 5th...see ya. I cant say much for the KX500...never thrown a leg over one....only speaking from experience. I would not mess with the timing! If it is too much, gear it down or put a flywheel weight on it. I spent 13 years off a bike (oversea's military). Came back and big red for sale in the local lot. Took me a little time to get use to it and from an XR background....now nothing else but a 500 will suffice. The only bad thing I can think of is they will rip a back tire up very quickly and your friends stay way in the back. :p

Yamadad · Jul 19, 2005

CspineRider said:
"I am limited to an '02 or older due to Kalifornia green sticker laws"

I live in California as well, and as far as I know you have to have a 98 or older to get a grandfathered green sticker, thats why I bought a 97 CR250. Just a heads up. I would hate for you to buy a 02,01 or 00 and get hosed on the green sticker.

There was a lawsuit that was dropped, and that's why originally only pre '97 bike could get green stickees, and now it is only for pre '02.

So, if you want a newer 2 smoke, just make sure it has an existing green sticker and it will continue, if 02 or older.

CspineRider · Jul 19, 2005

Oh okay, thats great, didnt know that, maybe I will have to upgrade down the road, but I am extremely happy with the 97. Thanks for the info

xsnrg · Jul 19, 2005

Yamadad, If single track is what you enjoy, go for the KDX220. I was out riding single track yesterday with a friend and his brand new CRF450X. He is by far more experienced than I am and used to smoke me in the woods on his YZ250, but yesterday I was waiting for him all the time. Granted, part of that was getting used to a new bike, but I rode it for a bit and while the power was great, it just seemed huge to me. I was able to dart and lean through the tight and twisty sections a lot faster on the KDX than he could on the 450X. I'm not knocking the 450X, it was a thrilling ride and is an awesome bike, but in the tight stuff, I'd choose the KDX over it. I've never ridden a 500, but tempted to consider one after reading many accounts like those above. I guess until I ride on and take it in the trails, it would be hard for me to believe that a 500cc 2stroke would be as light and nimble and content to go slow as the 220.

dirt bike dave · Jul 19, 2005

FWIW, any modern 250 mxer will be lighter than a KDX220, even after adding guards and offroad equipment. It will have more power (can be tuned to be smooth), and higher technology suspension (can be made to work better than the KDX's suspension).

IMO, the only advantages a KDX220 will have over a 250 MXer set up for the woods is lower cost and a wide ratio gear box.

rob129 · Jul 19, 2005

xsnrg said:
I've never ridden a 500, but tempted to consider one after reading many accounts like those above. I guess until I ride on and take it in the trails, it would be hard for me to believe that a 500cc 2stroke would be as light and nimble and content to go slow as the 220.

My 2001 CR500 in stock trim weight's 227 pounds dry. The horror stories you hear about the 500 is lack of throttle control....more or less. It does demand a bit of respect as does any bike. It can be putted around with a pee-wee 70...no problems. While the 500AF is the ultimate and extremely nimble the stock steel frame is more stable. I have had my 89 CR500 on one of those Jawbone Canyon goat trails that is 12 inches wide and rocky, a sheer cliff on my right side.....she is nimble enough for me. I dunno I am not trying to peddle the CR500. I just think its a great bike and can handle anything you throw at it. Has buckets of useable power and monstor torque. The best thing is when you waste someone on a 16 year old bike....the look on their face....its its like victory! :laugh: Actually you know better than anyone what will work for you and what your comfortable with...that is what is important. :)

VB Racing · Jul 19, 2005

Look at the bikes I own, I ride the 125 more than the 250 in the woods, BUT it is a big bore. If i were only trail riding single track, I would own a KDX. I race harescrambles and on the ice in the winter, so I keep my KX's around.
I owned a WR400 yamaha 4 stroke, and a WR450, I keep going back to 2 strokes. I like them better in the tight stuff.
So, my suggestion is:
trail fun riding=KDX
Woods racing=KX

scottbob99 · Jul 21, 2005

I ride a 2004 KX 250 in the woods. I had the suspension revalved, motor work done and put on hand guards. It works equally well in the tight stuff as in the wide open. Once you get the gearing and jetting working in your favor you won't want anything else. I race NE Harescrambles and all the top guys are on two strokes, also check out the GNCC results.

xsnrg · Jul 21, 2005

VB Racing said:
trail fun riding=KDX
Woods racing=KX

I agree...it's not that a KX125 or KX250 can't go fast on single track or tight trails. As was stated, most of the fastest woods racers / scramblers are on them. However, most riders, including myself either do not know how to use the clutch/throttle to regulate the power delivery, or they just do not want to be thinking about it or doing it while they are concentrating on piloting the bike through tough spots. The KDX doesn't require nearly as much of it because the engine delivers the power to the rear wheel just about right all the time, with just the use of the throttle. I think most trail riders out there (of course, I am not talking about anyone on DRN unless they want to admit to it), do not really use the clutch for anything but shifting or maybe killing power to the wheel to coast or during braking. My friend I ride with has rides a YZ250 and is way faster than me on my KDX in the woods, but he also is the first to admit that the YZ is not nearly as easy to ride in the woods as the KDX. In fact, he just bought a 450X for our upcoming trip because he didn't want to take the YZ back to Hatfield-McCoy.

Wilky · Jul 21, 2005

Throw a KDX200 engine in a KX125 frame and you will have one sweet ride. I did it a few years back, ended up selling it to get my current bike. I wish I hadn't :bang:. That thing was like riding a mountain bike with all the power you would ever need for any type of trail riding.

Scott

Yamadad · Jul 23, 2005

I'd love to do that mod, but too much buck-olas for my wallet.

Which bike for single track trails?

Yamadad

xsnrg

Airlooped

xsnrg

gwcrim

hellrazor

rob129

dirt bike dave

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Detonator

Yamadad

Yamadad

CspineRider

CspineRider

Bandit9

rob129

Yamadad

CspineRider

xsnrg

dirt bike dave

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rob129

VB Racing

scottbob99

xsnrg

Wilky

Yamadad

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Which bike for single track trails?

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