which bike

[stanton3]

1) your physical size (both height and weight are important)6'1", 160. At 16 years old and still growing and putting on weight
2) How physical / aggressive are you ? pretty aggressive
3) what do you plan to ride- MX/SX tracks, woods, fields with friends or ????? Mostly mx tracks.
4) Do you have any riding experience? yes, rode 2 strokes when i was younger but then got out of it.
5) Do you think you will race ? Not at first but probabaly will eventually
6) Are you mechanically inclined and will you be doing your own bike work? Yes, will be doing my own work, familar with 2 strokes, but can figure out a 4 stroke
7) Do YOU have a preferance to a brand/ motor choice (2 or 4 stroke)? Rode kawis when i was younger so i prefer them. But yamahas look really good. Price will probably dictate which brand. Is yamaha any better than kawi?
8) Do you have a dealer close by your home that you might use and what brand(s) does he carry? Yes; everything
9) How much ($) do you plan to spend on a bike?1500-3000
10) Do you live in California? no, GA
11) Your age? 16
12) anything else that you think would help form an opinion

Its basically between a 250f, 250 and 450f for me. I think that a 450f and a 250 two stroke are both going to be too much for me at first. I know i will eventually be able to handle it, but i dont want to get a 250f and be disappointed with the power and have to resell it. And i love 2 strokes but it seems most companies are moving away from them and i will probably get in to racing. Is it hard to find races with 2 strokes?

Am i going to be disappointed in the power of a 250f? This will be for alot of jumping and track time. Also is maintaining 4 strokes a big pain?

And one last thing. Are older bikes(02-05 or so) worth buying? I dont want to get one thats been ragged really bad. Or will a new top end get it closer to how it was new?

Thanks for the help...

 

[wake_rider]

A 450 is a monster to start back with, and used 250f's normally turn into a bomb waiting to explode with repairs costing more than the bike is worth.

I don't think you would be disappointed with the power of a 250F because they really do put out a considerable amount of power, but they need to be ragged into high rpm's to use that power. The difference in power from a 250F and 450F isn't as large as one might assume, but the difference is that a 450F makes a lot of power all the way from the bottom to the top, where the 250F has to be ridden in constant high rpm's in order to keep in their range of usable power. That's the problem with small bore 4 stroke race bikes. People constantly run them in high rpm's in order to make power and this ends up being the death sentence for those bikes, and the headache for the next owner.

If you plan on racing, the 450 will be a beast to handle. A lot of people made the switch to the big thumpers in the beginnings of the 4 stroke craze, but recently I've been hearing and smelling a lot more smokers on the tracks. That's due to a few different reasons. I think people have spent too much money repairing those bikes and want to go back to a more mechanically simple bike, and people are getting tired of feeling beat up all the time after every race. Racing is physically demanding no matter what the bike, but a 450 can really take it out of you after just a 30 minute moto.

I think the best fit for you would probably be a 250 two-stroke. I've known plenty of older "beginners," (usually people with minor experience on a dirt bike, but not in decades) that get 250 smokers and they seem to fit them pretty well. I can say that I've only had one good friend which I think would have been better off with a 125 smoker, but that's because he likes to ride a smoker like a thumper (down in waaaayyy low rpm's) and he never rides his 250 smoker where it makes its power, constantly short shifting and fouling plugs. That being said, about the only time this guy is ever "aggressive" is in his own head and when lifting weights, the rest of the time he likes to talk like he's aggressive, but those moments of brilliant/fast riding always seem to take place whenever no one was around to witness it. Lol. But, I'm saying this because I think he would benefit from a less powerful bike that HAS to be ridden in high rpm's or else it will go nowhere, that way he would be forced to learn how to ride a two-stroke without the fear of losing control from too much power.

With that being said, you have ridden a two-stroke before so I don't see this as being an issue for you. I think you would probably be most happy with a 250 two-stroke.

A few things you might want to think about when choosing a brand: Does the company still manufacture this bike, what feels the most comfortable in regards to handling and engine characteristics, as well as the physical geometry of the cockpit?

CR250's were great all around and very reliable, but can be hard to come by and were one of the first brands to be discontinued. I would love to give you more info on these bikes, but I admittedly have very little personal knowledge of these bikes and I have not known many people with one so my experience with them is almost not existent.

RM's are great track bikes because they have twitchy, touchy steering and are screamers towards the top end, but they don't like to be ridden in low rpm's at all and head shake at high speed can be an issue with their frame geometry being more adapted for turning. The drawback to their engine characteristics is noticeable in slippery conditions as they can be really "squirty" with their back ends when traction becomes minimal, and top ends seem to be a more often replacement on these bikes. This is another discontinued line, and I believe it was second after Honda to shut down manufacturing of full size smokers.

KX's have good all around usability and make a lot of power, but I feel a bit cramped on them at 6'3" and I have always felt like they vibrate way more than any other 250 smoker I've ridden (noticeably more). They do make great power, though, and the handling seems to be good in across the board as they are very balanced in that regard. They also seem to be very reliable in a multitude of riding conditions. I believe this is the most recent line to quit manufacturing full sized smokers.

KTM's make great smokers and are one of the only companies still putting them out, but they can be a bit more expensive to get into. That is somewhat balanced out though because you really don't need to put a lot of aftermarket stuff on the bike to make it more capable. They really are a race capable bike right out of the box, but when a part does fail, the factory replacement has a tendency to be pretty expensive and the after-market manufacturers have not been as dedicated to providing as many options for this brand as they do for the Japanese bikes. Other than availability of parts, the only reasons I tend to shy away from KTM's is that they seem down on power in comparison to similar bikes, and I'm not a fan of their suspension. I have ridden plenty, and even with professional suspension set ups, I have never felt all that comfortable while mounted to a Katoom, although I do really like the way they fit my size (their peg/handlebar/seat height seem to fit my height well and I don't feel cramped on them). They have not discontinued their production of smokers, and I don't think they ever will. It really is their "bread and butter," so to say, so you can expect continued r&d for their smoking models.

YZ's are where I have the most experience. Yamaha is the only Japanese manufacturer still producing full sized smokers, and from their recent press releases, they still plan on developing their 2-stroke models. Whether or not that is true is up for debate as they have seemingly continued putting out the same bike for the last few years with very minimal changes other than the plastics and graphics, so some think that their lack of research and development for their smoker lines gives signs of a dying 2-stroke program. Who knows, but as of now they still manufacture smokers and seem to be doing fairly well with their two-stroke sells, as it's somewhat difficult to find a new 250 or 125 smoker on a dealership floor. I've had a few dealerships say that the majority of their yz smokers are sold before they even get them in. Aftermarket and oem parts are insanely easy to find for them. The yz has a larger cockpit and I feel much less cramped on it than any other bike I have ridden (aside from KTM's which also have less cramped quarters). The engines are bulletproof and put out good all-around, usable power. Some old-school 2-stroke fanatics don't like them as much as a kx or rm primarily due to the fact that they have a more linear power delivery and not the sudden "snap" that they expect from a smoker, but that being said, I run right alongside any other 250 smoker I've ever lined up against in perfect track conditions, and I outrun them in less than desirable conditions because the bike seems to track really well in comparison to other 250's. This is both good a bit of a drawback. They pull solid, hard, and straight and feel very comfortable and stable in rutted out, gnarly straight sections and I have never had issue with the bike wanting to jump out from underneath me, but they also have a tendency to be a bit harder to get initiated into turns. They like to plow the front tire a bit and can seem a bit difficult to get to initialize the turn, but once you have the bike bit into a rut and leaned over, that issue goes away completely and the bike is back to that really good balance of stable but flickable (exactly how a smoker is supposed to feel). The only issue is that initial tendency to want to plow the front end into a turn rather than the bite and flick of other 2-stroke models. I have learned how to deal with it, but it will still bite me every once in a while and keep me out of the ideal rut as I plow past it and have to settle for the outside; the result is losing time, my line, and momentum.

Hopefully this novel I just wrote will make a little sense to you and not just cause more confusion! Good luck with your hunt, and welcome back to the dirt world. Just be careful, it will become a life-long addiction awfully fast which will lighten your wallet and anger some of your family members who don't "get it," but it will also help you grow some massive smile lines on your mug...

 

[stanton3]

A 450 is a monster to start back with, and used 250f's normally turn into a bomb waiting to explode with repairs costing more than the bike is worth.

I don't think you would be disappointed with the power of a 250F because they really do put out a considerable amount of power, but they need to be ragged into high rpm's to use that power. The difference in power from a 250F and 450F isn't as large as one might assume, but the difference is that a 450F makes a lot of power all the way from the bottom to the top, where the 250F has to be ridden in constant high rpm's in order to keep in their range of usable power. That's the problem with small bore 4 stroke race bikes. People constantly run them in high rpm's in order to make power and this ends up being the death sentence for those bikes, and the headache for the next owner.

If you plan on racing, the 450 will be a beast to handle. A lot of people made the switch to the big thumpers in the beginnings of the 4 stroke craze, but recently I've been hearing and smelling a lot more smokers on the tracks. That's due to a few different reasons. I think people have spent too much money repairing those bikes and want to go back to a more mechanically simple bike, and people are getting tired of feeling beat up all the time after every race. Racing is physically demanding no matter what the bike, but a 450 can really take it out of you after just a 30 minute moto.

I think the best fit for you would probably be a 250 two-stroke. I've known plenty of older "beginners," (usually people with minor experience on a dirt bike, but not in decades) that get 250 smokers and they seem to fit them pretty well. I can say that I've only had one good friend which I think would have been better off with a 125 smoker, but that's because he likes to ride a smoker like a thumper (down in waaaayyy low rpm's) and he never rides his 250 smoker where it makes its power, constantly short shifting and fouling plugs. That being said, about the only time this guy is ever "aggressive" is in his own head and when lifting weights, the rest of the time he likes to talk like he's aggressive, but those moments of brilliant/fast riding always seem to take place whenever no one was around to witness it. Lol. But, I'm saying this because I think he would benefit from a less powerful bike that HAS to be ridden in high rpm's or else it will go nowhere, that way he would be forced to learn how to ride a two-stroke without the fear of losing control from too much power.

With that being said, you have ridden a two-stroke before so I don't see this as being an issue for you. I think you would probably be most happy with a 250 two-stroke.

A few things you might want to think about when choosing a brand: Does the company still manufacture this bike, what feels the most comfortable in regards to handling and engine characteristics, as well as the physical geometry of the cockpit?

CR250's were great all around and very reliable, but can be hard to come by and were one of the first brands to be discontinued. I would love to give you more info on these bikes, but I admittedly have very little personal knowledge of these bikes and I have not known many people with one so my experience with them is almost not existent.

RM's are great track bikes because they have twitchy, touchy steering and are screamers towards the top end, but they don't like to be ridden in low rpm's at all and head shake at high speed can be an issue with their frame geometry being more adapted for turning. The drawback to their engine characteristics is noticeable in slippery conditions as they can be really "squirty" with their back ends when traction becomes minimal, and top ends seem to be a more often replacement on these bikes. This is another discontinued line, and I believe it was second after Honda to shut down manufacturing of full size smokers.

KX's have good all around usability and make a lot of power, but I feel a bit cramped on them at 6'3" and I have always felt like they vibrate way more than any other 250 smoker I've ridden (noticeably more). They do make great power, though, and the handling seems to be good in across the board as they are very balanced in that regard. They also seem to be very reliable in a multitude of riding conditions. I believe this is the most recent line to quit manufacturing full sized smokers.

KTM's make great smokers and are one of the only companies still putting them out, but they can be a bit more expensive to get into. That is somewhat balanced out though because you really don't need to put a lot of aftermarket stuff on the bike to make it more capable. They really are a race capable bike right out of the box, but when a part does fail, the factory replacement has a tendency to be pretty expensive and the after-market manufacturers have not been as dedicated to providing as many options for this brand as they do for the Japanese bikes. Other than availability of parts, the only reasons I tend to shy away from KTM's is that they seem down on power in comparison to similar bikes, and I'm not a fan of their suspension. I have ridden plenty, and even with professional suspension set ups, I have never felt all that comfortable while mounted to a Katoom, although I do really like the way they fit my size (their peg/handlebar/seat height seem to fit my height well and I don't feel cramped on them). They have not discontinued their production of smokers, and I don't think they ever will. It really is their "bread and butter," so to say, so you can expect continued r&d for their smoking models.

YZ's are where I have the most experience. Yamaha is the only Japanese manufacturer still producing full sized smokers, and from their recent press releases, they still plan on developing their 2-stroke models. Whether or not that is true is up for debate as they have seemingly continued putting out the same bike for the last few years with very minimal changes other than the plastics and graphics, so some think that their lack of research and development for their smoker lines gives signs of a dying 2-stroke program. Who knows, but as of now they still manufacture smokers and seem to be doing fairly well with their two-stroke sells, as it's somewhat difficult to find a new 250 or 125 smoker on a dealership floor. I've had a few dealerships say that the majority of their yz smokers are sold before they even get them in. Aftermarket and oem parts are insanely easy to find for them. The yz has a larger cockpit and I feel much less cramped on it than any other bike I have ridden (aside from KTM's which also have less cramped quarters). The engines are bulletproof and put out good all-around, usable power. Some old-school 2-stroke fanatics don't like them as much as a kx or rm primarily due to the fact that they have a more linear power delivery and not the sudden "snap" that they expect from a smoker, but that being said, I run right alongside any other 250 smoker I've ever lined up against in perfect track conditions, and I outrun them in less than desirable conditions because the bike seems to track really well in comparison to other 250's. This is both good a bit of a drawback. They pull solid, hard, and straight and feel very comfortable and stable in rutted out, gnarly straight sections and I have never had issue with the bike wanting to jump out from underneath me, but they also have a tendency to be a bit harder to get initiated into turns. They like to plow the front tire a bit and can seem a bit difficult to get to initialize the turn, but once you have the bike bit into a rut and leaned over, that issue goes away completely and the bike is back to that really good balance of stable but flickable (exactly how a smoker is supposed to feel). The only issue is that initial tendency to want to plow the front end into a turn rather than the bite and flick of other 2-stroke models. I have learned how to deal with it, but it will still bite me every once in a while and keep me out of the ideal rut as I plow past it and have to settle for the outside; the result is losing time, my line, and momentum.

Hopefully this novel I just wrote will make a little sense to you and not just cause more confusion! Good luck with your hunt, and welcome back to the dirt world. Just be careful, it will become a life-long addiction awfully fast which will lighten your wallet and anger some of your family members who don't "get it," but it will also help you grow some massive smile lines on your mug...

Ok, thanks alot for the response!

Yea i think a 450 would be too much for me right now. And i think deep down i still wanted a 2 stroke lol. And i agree on kx 2 strokes having ridiculous vibration. The last one i had felt like the bike was going to shake apart when you hit the powerband, but it still screamed lol.

So right now its down to the yz's and ktms, leaning towards yz's especially because of the aftermarket support.

The last thing stopping me is i feel like most bikes in my price range are older (02-05ish). Idk why but i feel like all of those are going to be ragged out and not have anything left in them. Anyone have an opinion on this? Hopefully im just worrying for no reason.

 

[jb_dallas]

Learn what to look for when buying a used bike or take someone who does. This will save you alot of misery and money. There are threads on this site about what to look for...I think I may have written a few.