Congrats Barry Bonds
- Thread starter rickyd
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rickyd
Hot Sauce
- Oct 28, 2001
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IMO, you still have too hit the ball.. I dont think he knowingly took them though.. Baseball deep down probably encourages it.. People pay too see the HomeRun.. Funny how right after the strike, McGuire, Sosa and Griffey jr hit a bunch..
Congrats Barry!! :)
Congrats Barry!! :)
You'd think Barry might wonder how his mass and strength doubled over 2 seasons?
These guys and their "i didn't know I was taking it. My body doubled, massive pimples all over my back and the boys shrunk to the size of peas" ... but hey, I didn't know" :p
These guys and their "i didn't know I was taking it. My body doubled, massive pimples all over my back and the boys shrunk to the size of peas" ... but hey, I didn't know" :p
*715
robwbright
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- Apr 8, 2005
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Here I go again . . . ;)
Do I think he knowingly took steroids? Probably so.
Has it been proven yet? Nope.
Do steroids really significantly help you hit home runs? In spite of all the public talk, it's actually a debated issue amongst scientists/trainers. (Yes, some of them help make you stronger, but not necessarily in the way you would need - see links and quotes below).
Did you know that the American Medical Association, Drug Enforcement Agency Department of Health and Human Services and the FDA all testified against turning steroids into a controlled substance?
The below links are long, but if you choose to read them (especially the second, shorter one), you may find that things are not quite so clear-cut as you might have thought.
http://www.laweekly.com/general/features/sympathy-for-the-devil/417/
http://www.reason.com/0301/fe.dp.pumped.shtml
And I quote:
""We know steroids can be used with a reasonable measure of safety," says Charles Yesalis, a Penn State epidemiologist, steroid researcher for more than 25 years, and author of the 1998 book The Steroids Game. "We know this because they’re used in medicine all the time, just not to enhance body image or improve athletic performance." Yesalis notes that steroids were first used for medical purposes in the 1930s, some three decades before the current exacting standards of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) were in place."
"One reason the health effects of steroids are so uncertain is a dearth of research. In the almost 65 years that anabolic steroids have been in our midst, there has not been a single epidemiological study of the effects of long-term use. Instead, Yesalis explains, concerns about extended usage are extrapolated from what’s known about short-term effects. The problem is that those short-term research projects are often case studies, which Yesalis calls the "lowest life form of scientific studies." Case studies often draw conclusions from a single test subject and are especially prone to correlative errors."
"Home runs are up, in large part, because several hitter-friendly ballparks have opened in recent years. Coors Field, home of the Colorado Rockies since 1995, is the greatest run-scoring environment in major league history. Until the 2000 season, the Houston Astros played in the Astrodome, a cavernous, run-suppressing monstrosity with remarkably poor visuals for hitters. They replaced it with Enron Field (now renamed Minute Maid Park), which is second only to Coors Field in terms of helping hitters and boasts a left field line that’s so short it’s in violation of major league rules. The Pittsburgh Pirates, Milwaukee Brewers, and Texas Rangers also have recently replaced their old ballparks with stadiums far more accommodating to hitters. The Arizona Diamondbacks came into being in 1998; they too play in a park that significantly inflates offensive statistics. The St. Louis Cardinals, Baltimore Orioles, and Chicago White Sox have all moved in their outfield fences in the last few years. Add to all that the contemporary strike zone, which plainly benefits hitters, and it’s little wonder that home runs are at heretofore unimaginable levels."
"A more reasonable (and answerable) question is: If players are on steroids, how much of a difference is it making?
Not much of one, according to Chris Yeager, a human performance specialist, private hitting instructor, and longtime weightlifter. Yeager’s argument is not a replay of Bob Goldman’s assertion that steroids function merely as placebos. Yeager posits that the engorged arms, chests, and shoulders of today’s ballplayers could well be the result of steroid use -- but that they aren’t helping them hit home runs.
"Upper body strength doesn’t increase bat speed," he explains, "and bat speed is vital to hitting home runs. The upper body is used in a ballistic manner. It contributes very little in terms of power generation." Yeager likens the arms, in the context of a hitter’s swing, to the bat itself: simply a means to transfer energy. A batter’s pectoral muscles, says Yeager, "are even less useful."
Yeager isn’t saying steroid use couldn’t increase a batter’s power. He’s saying most ballplayers don’t train properly. "There’s a difference between training for strength and training for power," he says, "and most baseball players train for strength." If hitters carefully and specifically trained their legs and hips to deliver sudden blasts of power, then steroids could be useful to them, but by and large that’s not what they do. "Mark McGwire hit 49 home runs as a 23-year-old rookie," Yeager says. "And, while I think he probably used steroids at some point in his career, he hit home runs primarily because of his excellent technique, his knowledge of the strike zone, and the length of his arms. Barry Bonds could be on steroids, but his power comes from the fact that he has the closest thing to a perfect swing that I’ve ever seen."
Do I think he knowingly took steroids? Probably so.
Has it been proven yet? Nope.
Do steroids really significantly help you hit home runs? In spite of all the public talk, it's actually a debated issue amongst scientists/trainers. (Yes, some of them help make you stronger, but not necessarily in the way you would need - see links and quotes below).
Did you know that the American Medical Association, Drug Enforcement Agency Department of Health and Human Services and the FDA all testified against turning steroids into a controlled substance?
The below links are long, but if you choose to read them (especially the second, shorter one), you may find that things are not quite so clear-cut as you might have thought.
http://www.laweekly.com/general/features/sympathy-for-the-devil/417/
http://www.reason.com/0301/fe.dp.pumped.shtml
And I quote:
""We know steroids can be used with a reasonable measure of safety," says Charles Yesalis, a Penn State epidemiologist, steroid researcher for more than 25 years, and author of the 1998 book The Steroids Game. "We know this because they’re used in medicine all the time, just not to enhance body image or improve athletic performance." Yesalis notes that steroids were first used for medical purposes in the 1930s, some three decades before the current exacting standards of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) were in place."
"One reason the health effects of steroids are so uncertain is a dearth of research. In the almost 65 years that anabolic steroids have been in our midst, there has not been a single epidemiological study of the effects of long-term use. Instead, Yesalis explains, concerns about extended usage are extrapolated from what’s known about short-term effects. The problem is that those short-term research projects are often case studies, which Yesalis calls the "lowest life form of scientific studies." Case studies often draw conclusions from a single test subject and are especially prone to correlative errors."
"Home runs are up, in large part, because several hitter-friendly ballparks have opened in recent years. Coors Field, home of the Colorado Rockies since 1995, is the greatest run-scoring environment in major league history. Until the 2000 season, the Houston Astros played in the Astrodome, a cavernous, run-suppressing monstrosity with remarkably poor visuals for hitters. They replaced it with Enron Field (now renamed Minute Maid Park), which is second only to Coors Field in terms of helping hitters and boasts a left field line that’s so short it’s in violation of major league rules. The Pittsburgh Pirates, Milwaukee Brewers, and Texas Rangers also have recently replaced their old ballparks with stadiums far more accommodating to hitters. The Arizona Diamondbacks came into being in 1998; they too play in a park that significantly inflates offensive statistics. The St. Louis Cardinals, Baltimore Orioles, and Chicago White Sox have all moved in their outfield fences in the last few years. Add to all that the contemporary strike zone, which plainly benefits hitters, and it’s little wonder that home runs are at heretofore unimaginable levels."
"A more reasonable (and answerable) question is: If players are on steroids, how much of a difference is it making?
Not much of one, according to Chris Yeager, a human performance specialist, private hitting instructor, and longtime weightlifter. Yeager’s argument is not a replay of Bob Goldman’s assertion that steroids function merely as placebos. Yeager posits that the engorged arms, chests, and shoulders of today’s ballplayers could well be the result of steroid use -- but that they aren’t helping them hit home runs.
"Upper body strength doesn’t increase bat speed," he explains, "and bat speed is vital to hitting home runs. The upper body is used in a ballistic manner. It contributes very little in terms of power generation." Yeager likens the arms, in the context of a hitter’s swing, to the bat itself: simply a means to transfer energy. A batter’s pectoral muscles, says Yeager, "are even less useful."
Yeager isn’t saying steroid use couldn’t increase a batter’s power. He’s saying most ballplayers don’t train properly. "There’s a difference between training for strength and training for power," he says, "and most baseball players train for strength." If hitters carefully and specifically trained their legs and hips to deliver sudden blasts of power, then steroids could be useful to them, but by and large that’s not what they do. "Mark McGwire hit 49 home runs as a 23-year-old rookie," Yeager says. "And, while I think he probably used steroids at some point in his career, he hit home runs primarily because of his excellent technique, his knowledge of the strike zone, and the length of his arms. Barry Bonds could be on steroids, but his power comes from the fact that he has the closest thing to a perfect swing that I’ve ever seen."
HajiWasAPunk
Member
- Aug 5, 2005
- 807
- 0
Rob, couldn't you find an article where a police officer was taking steroids? :) sorry, I couldn't resist...
Steroids could be taking safely, doctors prescribe them all the time. The problem is these guys willing to cheat to get head have a mentality that says if 2 aspirin work, let me try the whole bottle.
What did Barry think that cream was, ben gay? He may not have asked and they may not have told him but he knew, imo. Didn't he wonder why his head grew to the size of a watermelon?
As for the research on the subject, case studies are probably the best you'll ever hope for. To test for statiscal significance you'd need a large number of people willing to openly subject their bodies to the risk and follow them over time. Unfortunately that's all we'll probably have for a while. I've seen enough case studies that I'm personally convinced that internal organ damage and personality disorders are caused by steroid abuse.
Lastly, the debate about whether they help is pointless. Everytime a ball is hit just over the fence, you have to wonder was the extra strength from steroids? Every base hit that may have been an out and chisled away at a hitter's confidence could even play a role.
What's amazing to me is that the Babe's number stood 2nd as long as it did, with his diet of red meat, cigars, and pops! And his idea of workout was getting out of bed before 9.
Steroids could be taking safely, doctors prescribe them all the time. The problem is these guys willing to cheat to get head have a mentality that says if 2 aspirin work, let me try the whole bottle.
What did Barry think that cream was, ben gay? He may not have asked and they may not have told him but he knew, imo. Didn't he wonder why his head grew to the size of a watermelon?
As for the research on the subject, case studies are probably the best you'll ever hope for. To test for statiscal significance you'd need a large number of people willing to openly subject their bodies to the risk and follow them over time. Unfortunately that's all we'll probably have for a while. I've seen enough case studies that I'm personally convinced that internal organ damage and personality disorders are caused by steroid abuse.
Lastly, the debate about whether they help is pointless. Everytime a ball is hit just over the fence, you have to wonder was the extra strength from steroids? Every base hit that may have been an out and chisled away at a hitter's confidence could even play a role.
What's amazing to me is that the Babe's number stood 2nd as long as it did, with his diet of red meat, cigars, and pops! And his idea of workout was getting out of bed before 9.
Hey Nat... everything is "okay" in the Bay Area, I'm sure it's easy to overlook just about anything :p
Bottom line? Steriod use is banned in Baseball.
Barry uses/used steriods.
His "record" will (hide and watch) be struck down, if the baseball commission has an nad. But then again, they may prefer to avoid the negitive publicity and just ignore it all.
I'm not a baseball fan, but haven't all three the "big" hitters recently been suspected of or nailed for "susbtance" abuse? I know Sammy Sosa got huge in one season, McGuire (sp?) was getting hammered for some substance and now Bonds.
This all sends a GREAT message to the high-school aged kids and probably the little leaguers. Sad state of affairs.
Bottom line? Steriod use is banned in Baseball.
Barry uses/used steriods.
His "record" will (hide and watch) be struck down, if the baseball commission has an nad. But then again, they may prefer to avoid the negitive publicity and just ignore it all.
I'm not a baseball fan, but haven't all three the "big" hitters recently been suspected of or nailed for "susbtance" abuse? I know Sammy Sosa got huge in one season, McGuire (sp?) was getting hammered for some substance and now Bonds.
This all sends a GREAT message to the high-school aged kids and probably the little leaguers. Sad state of affairs.
I have play competitive baseball and love the game. The science of hitting the ball is bat speed and a good eye for the pitch. I will admit that nobody sees the ball better than Barry. But steroids due increase bat speed and if you combine that with a guy who already sees the ball well and he should hit home runs. They do give you an edge and since it is a ban substance,Barry is a cheater, if he is indeed using them. He gets the flack he gets because he is a jerk. If you are going to be a jerk don't live in a glass house because people will throw rocks.Make no mistake steroids give you an edge and eventually they will kill you. Sports (money) is just not that important. My dad has given me better values than that! He always says that he respects rc work ethic and thats the way to get to the top, hard work and knowlegde.
- Jan 1, 2001
- 3,043
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That's a cool quote!!!mx547 said:
rickyd
Hot Sauce
- Oct 28, 2001
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- Thread starter
- #22
You guys sound like the Tour De France officials that dont like Lance :laugh:
You would of thought McGuire would of thrown a lawsuit at Jose Canseco for what he said in his bool.. BUt, it was probably true so Mac didnt want too bother.. Bonds tried too get a suit against teh reporters but it was thrown out.. Too me that says he knowingly didnt use them, if he did use them at all..
You would of thought McGuire would of thrown a lawsuit at Jose Canseco for what he said in his bool.. BUt, it was probably true so Mac didnt want too bother.. Bonds tried too get a suit against teh reporters but it was thrown out.. Too me that says he knowingly didnt use them, if he did use them at all..
Tennessee Thumper
Sponsoring Member
- Jan 23, 2000
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rickyd said:
Sorry, but Griffey is an all NATURAL athlete, unlike the other morons (mainly Barry) you listed.
Thankfully, I'm not a fan boy for any athlete.....ie making lame excuses for them no matter what they do. :blah:
Tennessee Thumper
Sponsoring Member
- Jan 23, 2000
- 446
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rickyd said:
Nope you don't.Your healing time is MUCH longer without steroids.....atleast you where right about something. ;)
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