Future technology for 2-strokes??

[bedell99]

We all know that the manufacturers R&D are into 4-strokes, but what do guys/girls think we will see in the next couple of years for the advancement of 2 strokes??

I will start, I truely think that yamaha or suzuki will introduce FI for 2 strokes. The technology is there, it only needs to be applied to the dirt.

Erik

 

[DLHamblin]

We all know that the manufacturers R&D are into 4-strokes, but what do guys/girls think we will see in the next couple of years for the advancement of 2 strokes??

I will start, I truely think that yamaha or suzuki will introduce FI for 2 strokes. The technology is there, it only needs to be applied to the dirt.

Erik

Depends on if they think the market will support it. Also depends on the price increase (if any) it would bring.

 

[steve125]

Thats really hard to say. Keeping the 2 smokes cost effective is so important right now. I would think we will see FI on 4 bangers long before the 2 smokes. Thats if their still around?

 

[MXP1MP]

rotary valve's?

 

[2-stroke diehard]

I don't think FI is a priority for any major company in the forseeable future. What they NEED to be concentrating on is super low emissions, to help keep the eco-Nazis at bay, and keep our beloved 2-strokes in action. :nod: That and higher rpm technology, seeing how the 2-stroke 250s only rev to about 10,000 rpm or so, compared to 13,500 rpm for the 250 4-strokes.

 

[ellandoh]

I don't think FI is a priority for any major company in the forseeable future. What they NEED to be concentrating on is super low emissions, to help keep the eco-Nazis at bay, and keep our beloved 2-strokes in action. :nod: That and higher rpm technology, seeing how the 2-stroke 250s only rev to about 10,000 rpm or so, compared to 13,500 rpm for the 250 4-strokes.

i wonder if rpms matter that much since thats 5000 power strokes for a 2t compared to 3375 for the 4t ???

 

[bedell99]

It seems right now yamaha & suzuki has the correct port setup with the sub exhaust ports. I can't really see them extracting much more power from the bikes, unless they go to a race gas setup and up the compression. What I can see is lightening up the bikes even more to gain an advantage. Do you guys think the AMA should rethink the weight rule. Maybe drop it 10lbs. I mean look at yamaha, they haven't changed there engine in 4 years, but continually upgrade the chassis.


Erik

 

[john3_16]

It seems right now yamaha & suzuki has the correct port setup with the sub exhaust ports. I can't really see them extracting much more power from the bikes, unless they go to a race gas setup and up the compression. What I can see is lightening up the bikes even more to gain an advantage. Do you guys think the AMA should rethink the weight rule. Maybe drop it 10lbs. I mean look at yamaha, they haven't changed there engine in 4 years, but continually upgrade the chassis.


Erik

Production bikes don't have a weight rule do they ?

 

[Spine_Thrust]

I believe SX/MX bikes have to first be production bikes that sell for a certain number of years or rather a certain amount sold. For example, the RMZ 450's last year. They were on the market but couldn't race them in the big races until this year. They were on the market for a year and have to sell a certain amount. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

So, if that is indeed the rule, then production bikes do have a weight rule technically.

They probably should change the rule now though. But would you want a bike that was too lite?

 

[CJG]

I think the first thing that has to be done is to level the displacement playing field. If two-strokes are no longer competitive then no one will buy them and there will be no reason for the manufacturers to continue development. 125's have already been left behind, even the average C class rider is at a disadvantage on a 125(hopefully the 144 rule will help). But fortunately, the 250 is still competitive for 95% of racers.

As for lowering emissions on the pingers, I don't think it can be done without fuel injection and probably oil injection. But I know it CAN be done, clean running two-strokes are already available on snowmobiles and outboards. And even with complicated F.I.and O.I. systems, two-strokes should still be lighter, cheaper, and easier to maintain than even carbureted four-strokes.

Steve125 is right, thumpers will be F.I. before the two-strokes. I expect to see an F.I system available from one of the big five within two to three years. A few smaller euro manufacturers(e.g. GasGas)already have successful F.I. systems available on thumpers right now.

For the original question 'What do guys/girls think we will see in the next couple of years for the advancement of 2 strokes??' BNG's, porting changes, and maybe crossover upgrades from the four-strokes(suspension, hardware, etc.). :(

 

[christopher in tam]

I expect to see 144cc production bikes replacing the 125cc bike. Brands like Yamaha, Suzuki and KTM will be the first to jump (and maybe the only) on the 144 bandwagon and you will see more 2 stroke "lights" on the track.

On a pro level Iv seen the 2 stroke fading away more lately (factory teams pressuring riders to convert to 4 doesnt help either), but on a local level I have seen more 2006 2 strokes on the track than I have seen 2006 4 strokes.

I really think more 250cc 2 strokes will sell this year than last year, but I know less 125cc 2 strokes will sell this year than last. But I'm sure a producion 144 would boast sales.

I dont expect to say any major changes in the next few years, I mean if history repeats itself (and it always does) I havent seen any major breakthough in 2 cycle motocross bikes since the late 80's or way early 90's (just year by year refinements), so...

I look at it like I do hot rods. In the end the car that gets down the track the fastest is usually pretty simple under the hood, nothing but stuff that is proven and strong, nothing fancy.

 

[pace]

Much as I hate to admit it, I don't think two-stroke engine technology will go anywhere in the near future. The four-strokes will continue to get lighter, and more reliable, and will continue to gain market share over the 'smokers. So what's the motivation for the manufacturers to invest heavily in a type of machine that the AMA has done virtually nothing to support? The consumer speaks with his/her wallet, and right now our spending habits are reinforcing what the AMA have been doing. Unless the market for thumpers slows significantly, the manufacturers aren't going to pay much attention to the dwindling full-size two-stroke enthusiast base.

I would not be surprised if by 2010 we see two-stroke motocross motorcycles offered only by Yamaha and KTM.

p.s Another riding buddy just traded his CR250 for a CRF this week. So out of 7 in our group, there's only two of us left on two-strokes.

 

[KingTate]

well, i would just like to see them stay, i dont care about advancements, just still having them. i love 2 strokes, 4s are alright, but you just have to love the kind of power of a 2stroke. i really wouldnt cared if they stay the same or not.

 

[bedell99]

250's are here to stay for a while. I agree with pace comments, but there are still loads of people buying up 2-stroke 250.(At least yamaha's) and the wood guys still prefer a 250 over the 4 strokes. Imagine if they can get a green sticker. I think they would sell a ton. In most cases of 2 stroke fuel injection is a direct type(Ficht and Optimum) and that would need a complete redesign of the current engine. Is it possible with current technology to swap the carb out and replace it with a throttle body????

Erik

 

[john3_16]

If a manufacturer comes out with an OEM 144 it would sell like crazy...The first manufacturer to do this would sell out so fast it would force offerings from a couple of other factories.

 

[MXP1MP]

I think a 144 would totally sell just look at what yamaha did by just changing it's frame material and by giving it's 125 a new motor you see a ton of 05 yz 125's and more 06's popping all the time.

 

[Rcannon]

The 05 yz 125's are selling for cheap in my area. I believe a person could build one into a nice 144 for less than 4500..

The two strokes are gettin more popular around here. I suspect it is due to some of the people having to rebuild their 2003 4 strokes.

Hopefully we'll see more two stroke updates next year. New graphics is just not going to cut it.

 

[bclapham]

the most technolgocally advanced and new engine design is the CR250. i bet it wont be sold many more years.

sadly, the 2 stroke is dead.

 

[john3_16]

I wouldn't consider an electric servo motor opening a powervalve as technically advanced..It's still the same design using a different means to do the same thing...The only difference is you have an electric motor opening a powervalve instead of a totally mechanical process. More of a useless gimmick than a breakthrough in design technology...

 

[2-stroke diehard]

sadly, the 2 stroke is dead.

Mine's not. :cool: Neither are the millions of 2-strokes currently owned out there, and they aren't suddenly going to disappear for a while. They will be in use, and therefore will create a demand for parts as well, just like 25 year old Buick Grand Nationals.

The new market for 2-strokes will depend on the eco-nazis and on the willingness of the suits at the big companies to invest and not be cowards. Much thanks to Yamaha for bravely pressing forward and revamping the YZ250, making it probably the best 2-stroke MXer yet made and increasing their market share by 50% according the MX Action. Very impressive, Yamaha has been known to go against the grain and prove the other companies to be wrong and/or behind the curve. After all, Yamaha started the 4-stroke craze with the YZ400 and the other companies laughed----at first.

One thing is for sure, with enough money and desire we CAN advance the 2-stroke engine, just like 4-strokes have come a long way in the past few years.

As for forced induction? I don't see that on MX bikes for a long time if ever. It adds weight, complexity and tremendous heat, and can you even use 100 HP on a dirt bike anyway? On racing circuits, a strong naturally aspirated engine always has the faster powerband assuming it has anywhere near the power of a FI. Now on the ATV market, I see FI as being a big craze in the years ahead, and expect deaths to skyrocket. Just because you have a quad that will go 120 mph, it doesn't mean the chassis can handle it safely. :bang:

 

[DLHamblin]

the most technolgocally advanced and new engine design is the CR250. i bet it wont be sold many more years.

sadly, the 2 stroke is dead.

I thought they went back to a mechanical linkage due to issues with the powervalve on the CR250?

 

[steve125]

I thought they went back to a mechanical linkage due to issues with the powervalve on the CR250?

That was the 125 not the 250. I feel the 2 stage mechanical PV's of the late model KX/YZ/RM is the better system.

 

[MXP1MP]

I don't think honda broke ground with an electronic operated PV system especially since it was oem on old yamaha RZ 350's from 84 this little 87 TZR 250 I ride has the same setup didn't Hannah's last work's 85 RC 250 have it to?

 

[bedell99]

I see a trend happening though with the four strokes and it is maintence issues and price for rebuilds. Two strokes solve a lot of these problems and right now there is another shift happening with people buying 2 stroke 250's again and for good reason. They are reliable, fun as hell and powerful enough for the ordinary guy. I also think if the manufactures made a 144cc bike I would go out and buy one over a 250f. We need to keep 2 stroke development because I know if we don't there will come a day when we are buying a crf450 for $8000 and crying aevery time it blows up. That is not good.

Erik

Erik

 

[rodH]

FI=Fuel Injection, NOT Forced induction