GasGas/KTM comparo please

[MWEISSEN]

Thanks a lot for the help earlier for you who wrote on my questions between the KTM 400EXC and 250EXC. I've decided to go with a 250, but got a good look at a Gas Gas today (300 EC). I'm not going with the 300, but am considering a 250. I've never been on one before, and they don't allow demo rides (although they'll let me ride a used 200).

I'm certain there's some folks here that have ridden both. I'd sure appreciate your comments.

I ride Michigan woods, am in my 40's, and currently ride a WR400. I really like the WR motor and suspension, but the weight is a little much for me anymore. Your input will help me make the right decision.

 

[GlennP]

There have been some real hot threads on this topic, right Strick? Seriously, no more bashing, they are both great bikes. Bottom line is the GG fits under 6' riders better, steers in the woods better, and has better power delivery. Generally a better woods bike for the average to small rider. The KTM is more mass produced, so the fit and finish is slightly more refined, somewhat eaiser to work on (PDS and air filter), and more roomy for tall riders. GGs first appear less refined, but you soon find out how well they really are made. I'm over 40 also, owned and raced both, but fit the GG better. Try the 200, its the same frame as the 250, not like the KTM200 that is smaller. Also ride the KTM and buy what your most comfortable on. Good Luck.

 

[Strick]

O.K.

Why ya gotta go an mention the 'S' word? You know I no longer go there.

Glenn - I have gone so far as to even call our local HONDA dealer to see about putting a hold deposit on a new CRF450???

I sure wish KTM would release some info on the '02s before it is too late.:p

 

[Pekka Hänninen]

Re: O.K.

Originally posted by Strick
I sure wish KTM would release some info on the '02s before it is too late.:p

Take a look at...
http://www.karlstrommotor.se/bilder/ktminfo.htm

 

[GlennP]

Strick,

I knew you'd be the first response. Its cool, wars over. I hear ya about the decision. I have mine set up great now, and will wait for the dust to settle after all of the proposed 250 strokers are released before I do anything. First year production scares me a little. For the snotty woods, a 250 E-start in a compact, quick steering frame would be the ticket, for the desert, bigger. I hope KTM scales down the 250RFS motor and sticks it in the 200 EXC frame. I really like the RFS bikes, its just that the frames feel a little too big to me in the technical stuff. If I rode in the desert regularly (I have, in Baja) it probably wouldn't matter, and the button would be less of a neccessity.

The RFS motor is still new, so I would suspect minor refinements. Were you ever on a new RFS MXC? One thing I really didn't like on the 400 MXC a guy hear has is the tank, way too wide. I'd get the EXC, or swap the tanks. Stay Euro.

 

[squid]

MWEISSEN,
I'm also over 40, and ride a GasGas ec200. Although this motor is "Tame" compared to a GasGas 200 xc, or a 250. the power is very linear, plenty of bottom end and smooth all the way to a healthy top end ovverrev. I've ridden all three Gas Gas displacements, 200,250, and 300. The 250 is a lot of motor, the 300 is a put it in 3rd gear and never have to shift "touque monster", that will probably hit 100 miles per hour on top, and the 200 is what works for me.
I suggest you take a ride on the used 200, check out how well the bike turns, then decide how many CC's you need...Good luck..
GasGas=FastFast

 

[Shawn1]

I had a chance to test the KTM 200 exc side by side with the GG 200 xc. The KTM felt faster to me but also stiffer and not as smooth. I like the GG because It felt smaller and easier to handle, was super smooth and had a plusher suspension. I'm only 130 lbs and I chose the GG because it fit me better. I've been on it awhile and have had no problems. They are both great bikes, if your a larger guy who races I'de say the KTM. If your just trail riding the GG to me is more forgiving and more comfortable.

Shawn

 

[teton]

is there aftermarket parts & accessories availble for the G.G. machines ? I just spoke to the only dealer in the area about the G.G. 200, seams like a great bike. He has 7 riders riding for him, two of those riders have the #1 plates in there classes here in D-37.

 

[Bob Brooks]

Choosing between a GG and a KTM truly depends on the rider and what you're looking for. I own a KTM 300 MXC, I had a YZ400 last year and I recently took a trail ride on a 300 Gas Gas. The Gas Gas is very smooth and tractable. I thought the power on the 300 GG was linear, almost electric in delivery. It was super smooth which is nice in tight woods and snotty conditions. However, compared to my KTM and the YZ400 I rode last year, I felt the power was a little on the soft and flat side. My KTM definitely has more of a hit and snap than the GG, which can be an advantage or disadvantage depending on the rider and the conditions. For me, my KTM is just more fun to ride. The GG is too smooth for my tastes; I just don't think the motor is as fun as my Katoom. I did like the ergonomics on the GG and there's no doubt that it steers a little quicker than the KTM. The previous posts that remarked on the GG bikes fitting smaller riders are accurate. The layout of the Gas Gas is more compact, while the KTM is longer and roomier.

After stepping off your WR400, I think you'll find the power of the GG a little underwhelming. The 300EC that I rode felt a little slow, although that is admittedly a deceptive feeling because of the superb hook-up and smoothness. I would definitely take a ride on one before you make any decision. They're both wonderful motorcycles, it's just a matter of pesonal preference and what you're looking for. One of my good riding partners rides a GG and he adores it, while I love my KTM. We wouldn't switch bikes for anything.

 

[MWEISSEN]

Squid,

I took your advice and rode the 200EC today. You were right on about the 200 motor. I'm amazed at how "linear" the thing was. I thought there'd be nothing left on top after grunting around a bit in the lot, but I was wrong. The suspension and geometry are really great, althought I think I'd up the fork springs a bit for my weight.

What really surprised me was how spot-on the bike was from the second I stepped on it. As with other Euro bikes, it's taken me awhile to feel comfortable with the controls. The GasGas felt more in line with Japanese ergos.

Thanks for the tips, I think you've helped me a bunch making my final decision!


I've got my WR for sale and just waiting for movement before

 

[MR.WR]

Ahhhhhhhhh.......another Happy Camper:p

 

[MWEISSEN]

So, tell me, how did you get the handle "Mr. WR":think , but yet you ride a GasGas??? ;) Are there any similarities?

 

[EK]

Another Yamaha thumper convert

I switched from a '99 WZ400F (YZ timed WR) to a '01 GasGas 300XC.

When both are correctly jetted, the power delivery on the GasGas is much more verstile. It is much smoother and more controllable down low. The hit is mid to high on the GasGas as opposed to a low to mid hit on the WZ. Want tractor power for mud and slime - stay a gear high. Want snap and acceleration - rev it little more before you shift. If you want even more snap on the 300 remove the reed block spacer. The XC has a lighter lighting coil so it has less flywheel than the EC. The best part is that it is so versatile and smooth. Just remember putting the power to the ground is what makes the machine move forward - and the GasGas does it very well.

Handling difference is night and day - the GasGas is a dream compared to the Yamaha. Responsive, quick turning very forgiving. Many times on the GasGas I thought a crash was impending based on my WZ experience only to be pleasantly surprise with only a minor bobble and continued forward progress.

Ergonomics wise, both bikes need higher bars for me at 6'. I use Jimmy Button high bars. When standing the GasGas layout is great. For the most part I stand so it suits me fine. For the occaisional sitting, the seat is a little low, but with the slim feel of the GasGas it is stilll easy to move around on and nothing gets in the way while cornering. On the plus side a low seat helps when I get into those tough spots on the trail where I want to touch the ground.

Suspension wise I resprung both for my 240+ lb riding weight. When resprung the Gas Gas is definitely much nicer and smoother feeling.

The GasGas has a balanced crank, resulting in much less vibration than the KTM300.

Eric K
'01 GasGas 300XC

 

[MWEISSEN]

Erik,
Thanks for the info on the 300. So, coming off a 400WR, would I find the controllability of the 300 motor equal?

I'm debating between a 200, 250 and 300. It appears that the 300 is more forgiving in power delivery than the 250. I've only been able to ride the 200, and find it surprisingly linear in power delivery. I expected more of a 125-like motor, but really like it. However, carrying around 215-220 lbs, I'm wondering if the 300 would better serve my needs. The 300 on the local showroom floor is brand new, and the guy won't allow a trial ride (yet).

More feedback on the motors characteristics between the 400WR 300 GG would certainly be appreciated!

BTW, I've ridden a KTM 300 and didn't like the abruptness of the engine. I find the 250 actually easier to control, even though it's pipier.

 

[BSWIFT]

250 ec

Hi guys, first time in this forum. I had the opportunity to ride Justql's 250 GG and was ready to sell the Mamba if I could a GG. Don't get me wrong, the Mamba ROCKS and is a serious competitor. I weigh 150 lbs and rode the 250 EC for just a short ride but found the smooth response and handleing to my liking. With some adjustments to the suspension, the 250 EC would fit me nicely. Ride one if you can, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Tiger]

Check issue of Cycle World, July 2001

Hey buddy. You really should check out the July 2001 Issue of Cycle World (pg. 68 in a street mag!?) for a great comparison of Gas Gas XC300 vs. Suzuki DR-Z400E vs. Yamaha WR250F vs. KTM 200 E/XC vs. TM 125E vs. KTM 520 E/XC. I'm afraid they've one upped the dirt mags with this test. Rather decent comparison!

Read on!

 

[Shawn1]

I Love My Gas Gas!!!!!!!

i just got back from a 3 hour ride and my bike is covered with mud. What a blast!! I ride the 200 XC and I like this bike more and more everytime I ride it. It is the most comfortable, easiest bike to ride I've ever owned and I've owned at least 20 different dirt bikes. I've ridden both the 200 and the 300 and for me I liked the 200. The 300 felt heavier for some reason to me, maybe just that I'm used to 125's and the shear grunt of the 300 felt foreign to me. My 200 still has a great low end, you can crawl this thing up rocks with your hand off the clutch but it will still kick butt on top. And I like the yellow color, hey, that sounds like my wife. Either way, you won't be dissapointed. All these bikes need are hand guards and they are ready to go. They put all the good stuff on at the factory. My only complaint would be changing oil, they could have made the hole bigger. You'll need to come up with a very small funnel. I made my own and have a system that works fine.

Shawn

 

[MWEISSEN]

When I test rode the 200 the other day, the dealer showed me that GasGas sells a billet aluminum funnel that screws into the small opening. VERY trick looking, and only $15.95.

 

[MR.WR]

MWEISSEN,

For many years I rode a YZWRA 250 and my buddies called me MR.WR, so when I signed up for DRN I went with MR.WR. I have since seen the light and bought a GasGas and have never looked back. My WR was a totally different bike from my GG EC200. They shared nothing in common.

I am 5'11 @175lbs and the 200 is perfect for my riding style. I like tight woods trials, that is where the bike really shines. As you know since you've rode a 200. I was going to get a XC250, but I wanted the light feeling of a small bore trail bike. My WR had a massive mid range hit and pulled hard on top and was a bit much in really slippery tight trails that I like to ride. I have found that I am much faster on the 200 vice the 250 and I can ride the 200 faster for longer periods of times.

Rick

 

[teton]

Maybe you guy's can help me out, I read every post in the archive's about the G.G. 200, sounds like a great bike, kinda what Ive been looking for. For the most part I thought the KTM would be my next bike, but Im a little bit vertically challanged (5' 7" tall), and the posts have indicated that the GasGas would fit me better. The power seems to be a bit tamer as well (once again just quoting from past posts)
One of the questions I have is regarding the forks on the different models, there is three different forks avalible : White Power's on the XC, Marzocchi's on the EC and Ohlins on a SE (I think its an SE), I asume that the rear shock is the same, and that the power delivery is close or can be modified by a dealer. Of the three forks, will there be an advantage with one over the other, quality of the ride ? Would there be a difference in handling from one model to the other ?:confused:

 

[Shawn1]

Did I mention I love my GG 200XC

My 200XC has the WP's and they are working great for me. I'm not sure the SE is even available in the U.S., I could be wrong and I did here the SE was quite a bit more $. I'm sure the Marzocchis on the EC would be fine but I haven't ridden one. I'd go for the XC, it has higher compression, WP forks and the Ohlins gold series shock. I ride mostly tight woods, I'm 5'7" also and only 130 lbs and I can ride mine all day without wearing myself out.
I also love the side access air filter.

Shawn

 

[teton]

I should've mentioned that I ride mostly in the desert, I do like the tighter trails and occasionally get up in the mountains: Forrest Hills, Ken. Meadows, and Big Bear. I guess that the XC would be the model made for my area.
How does the different pull rods affect the suspension and turning ablity.
Everyone rav's about the great turning of the GG, I would not want to change it. Another reason why I like the GG over the KTM.:silly:

 

[scrambler220]

I'm pretty sure all new GG's (except SE) use the WP forks. I think the EC changed to WP in '01? The SE uses the Ohlins forks (I've heard they ride great). All models use ohlins rear shock. As far as handling, the 200 through 300 use the same frame, and I believe the steering geometry is all the same, so steering should be extremely close between sizes.

 

[GlennP]

teton,

All of the '99+ ECs (US models) I've seen came with 122mm pull rods. If your short, the 123mm pull rods will drop the rear a few mm. Steering is VERY quick stock, and still quick enough with this change. Its a 5 minute job to swap the pull rods.

 

[EK]

Mark,

For your size and coming off the WR, I suggest the 300XC. WHAT AN ENGINE!! Power is much more versatile than either a WR/YZ400 or KTM400RFS. This engine makes riding unbelievably easy - it puts power to the muddy and rocky ground in a tractable yet snappy manner - it is much easier to ride the either of the aforementioned thumpers in mud, sand, wherever. The engine has great low end chug and a strong linear delivery throughout the range. It also revs quickly & smoothly. You will be happy unless you like massive doses of uncontrollable wheelspin- if so, go get a CR500 or KX500. The GasGas just hooks up and goes quickly.

You will be so pleased with your GasGas you will wonder why you even bought a WR.

Eric K
'01 GasGas300XC