installed CEL needle

[freydog]

I installed the CEL #3 needle in my kdx200 tonight. You guys are right. That needle makes a huge improvement in how the bike performs! This is with a 45 pilot, 158 main, stock exhaust, and airbox lid drilled out.

I know, I need to get a pipe...but I like how quiet the stock pipe is.

Now I can be putting along in second, pin the throttle, and the bike takes off. No bog, no pinging. thats just in my driveway without much of a chance to warm the bike up. With the stock needle I never could get rid of the bog and not have the bike to rich or lean somewhere else.

Thanks for the advice everyone!

 

[acutemp]

Thank's for the report freydog. It's great to hear that this setup will work well on bikes in various degree's of modification.:) I would think that a 155 main might even clean thing's up a bit more--Dan

 

[OLD-N-SLOW]

You aint seen nuthin yet! After you take a ride you might find that a 155-152 may be closer as Dan said. Also a smaller pilot may be in order, not sure of your temp and alt but I think you will find a 40 or so to be cleaner down low. Get a pipe and #607 reeds to complete the rocket!
Give us a ride report when you get a chance for a good flog!
Steve

 

[70 marlin]

I've a CEL & BEL on order!

sound great hope it works as well for me, the CEL will be first try. 42/155

 

[OLD-N-SLOW]

70marlin,
You signiture says a kdx 220, beware, what we are talking about is the stock carb on the 200(35mm) and the RBcarb mod(36mm) carb.
These are NOT the proper settings for the stock(33mm)220 carb.
Sorry for any confusion that my incomplete posts might have caused.
Steve

 

[KelvinKDX]

Hope this isn't a silly question but where did you get your CEL needle from?

I think that i am going to try it out on my 200.

Did you order it on line? From who?

Thanks!:D

 

[acutemp]

KelvinKDX,
Give Sudco a call at 1-800-998-3529. Their website is at www.sudco.com
Pick up a CEL and a BEL which should both work well and give you an option as far as types of power delivery. At $5.00 each you can't go wrong.
OLD-N-SLOW,
70 marlin is running a 36mm carb (bored out 33) and the same porting (FRP)as fishhead and I am so he should be in good shape.--Dan

 

[KelvinKDX]

acutemp,

THanks for the info.:)

I just ordered them and have taken next week off so that i can try them out.:D

Now i hope that they get here before the week is over! :think

 

[freydog]

Old-N-SLow,
I'll have to do a WOT plug check. last time I ran the 155 main it was way too lean. Riding at 1500 ft and 40 deg f. So I'm a little leary of going 150-152.
I really should check for an airleak since I'm running so much leaner than you all.

Kelvin,

Hope you get them before the week is over:eek:

Going from the stock needle to a CEL, you will notice right away that the main jet is too rich, so have some leaner jets ready too! My bike was blubbering.

I'll be able to get by without messing with the pilot jet for now, maybe you wont need to mess with yours. My pilot was too lean to begin with though.

What is your bike setup like now? pipe, airbox lid, jetting, also your riding elevation and temp. Depending on your airbox lid setup your jetting will be hugely different.

 

[70 marlin]

Thanks old & slow : no confussion here!

not much stock left on her! she's been bored to 36mm. plus I've been watching from a far for awhile now on this needle thing. at $5 a needle I could'n go wrong! I like the Idea of changing here personalty with just a change of a needle. trailriding I think the BEL will be the whip, then when I head to the hills or the track the CEL will make her breath fire I hope?
here's spec's
99 fredette 220
race tec front & rear, gold valves. fredette tuned
frp hand gruards & deflector's.
fmf rev & power core II
frp porting cylinder
36 bored carb" 42/155 fredette"
Ims large tank
tall seat foam
RK sho o-ring chain
13/50 sprokes hill set up
14/50 sprokes trail set up
S-12 front
dunlop rear 773 new!
skf w64 wheel bearing's front & rear "best bearing's money can buy"
lots of really cool stickers " drn"
No air box lid
no toil filter & treatment
nkg 7BRES plug
wiseco piston

 

[bobby]

OK - I'm getting a little confused as to who has what. I have a 220 with a 35.5 MM R&B (carb #3 I think) torque pipe, turbine core, Boysens, No lid, stock porting. I think I'm sitting on an AEL needle. I haven't been on the forum for a while. Is this CEL need something I need to try. My scoot runs good, plug looks great but I spooge and smoke too much. Thanks for your ideas guys.

 

[fishhead]

Well you could read the whole " Emergcency jetting info needed RB carb" thread but here's the cliff notes.

stock #5 slide CEL #3clip
#6 slide CEK #2 clip
#7 slide CEJ #3 clip
These combos give max throttle response for slides, for less throttle response use corresponding B__ needles, buy all three or six they are cheap.

for earlier carbs with the lower nozzle 89-92 and? with the #6 slide use the CGK #2 or 3

If you find a lean surge at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle then the taper is to lean. you may find this with the B__ needles on modifed engines

Test results by Dan (Acutemp), canyncrver, myself and lots of others and input from James Dean lead me to believe this is benficial regardless of the engines state of tune. It also applies to a wide spectrum of bikes but lets keep that part a secret, OK. The KTM guys make it hard enough to get the needles we want and we sure dont need the red yellow and blue crowd to get hold of this.
:D

 

[iainross]

I'm running a 91 KDX200sr jap import with no snorkel, a stipped out OEM front pipe and straight through DEP Sport silencer. I also intend to fit power reeds and cut away the airbox lid.

These changes made a big difference and a plug chop shows the jetting (stock) is about right, but it was fluffing a bit b4 hitting the powerband. I raised the needle a notch (as far as it would go) which improved the mid but it is a bit rich up top and the bottom isn't quite right either. Thing is the code on the needle (N68K) doesn't match anything posted here or in the needles article. Any advice on needles and jet sizes would be appreciated.

I ride lanes and woods in Cornwall UK, sea level to about 600 feet I suppose.

 

[acutemp]

bobby,
Good to hear from ya, I thought that you bought yourself a new four stroke. Yep you had RB carb #2 or #3, Fishhead pretty much covered the setups that have seemed to really work well with our bikes, the only thing that I would add is that the torque pipe like you are running can get by with a bit leaner setup than the rev pipe. Check out the thread that fishhead mentioned and see some off Canyncarvrs testing results as he is running a torque pipe on his bike also. I would pick up a CEK,CEJ and as they don't make a BEK, pick up a BEL, BEJ to use with your #7 slide and you should be good to go. Good luck and don't be a stranger to the kdx forum.--Dan

 

[bobby]

Yep..I got a ktm 400. Great Bike-but that's a different story. Still have the KDX for my son who conviently grew into the KDX when the pumpkin came alone. I read the long post referred to ... I just lost track with who had which setups, which worked best, etc...

Just so I Understand, You're saying I have a #7 slide and need a BEL and BEJ with my reeds and torque pipe? Would you get a CEL also? Thanks guys.

 

[70 marlin]

first ride report on CEL

did the evart yesterday :eek: should of waited to change needles, but I installed the CEL with a fresh plug and filter, did'nt get a chance to do a plug chop, do to the 1 1/2 of snow that was on the ground :debil: over all I felt with the limited amount of "open ground" that I got to use it on it gave a nice mide range MX type hit. I need to to pull the plug and take a look at it yet, but it felt it's little rich for that tight of trail. should of most like used the BEL like I said. but just could'nt wait. "the best set up, I feel would of been the BEL and the smaller font sproket". over all the BEL will been fine!

 

[acutemp]

Bobby,
Yes you have a #7 slide. The CEL would most likely be a bit lean with this slide. The CEJ,CEK would be the ones to go with. If your son is still growing into the kdx the BEJ,BEL are a bit smoother and might be a better choice. A BEK would be good to but the currently dont make one.

70 marlin,
With these needles you will want to drop the pilot size at least 1 step from what you were running with the stock needle. Pick up a 38 and a 40 pilot to try. With the C taper needles you will probably want to drop the main a step also as these needles are a fair amount richer at full throttle. The B needles have the same taper as the stock needle so the main should remain about the same as before. And as always work with your air screw to fine tune your off idle responce.
--Dan

 

[70 marlin]

ya, it felt that way!

with the weather and all in the 30's and not being able to test the bike fully before the ride. I just ran it knowing I was rich :uh: I think that I have all the proper jets to tune it correctly if not I'll be giving sudco anther call ;)

 

[MitchS]

I have a RB carb that I purchased in October 2000. the slide says #5 but I thought it had been modified to a #6 (. My current jetting is 42, 152, BEL@2, with a Rev pipe. Eric Gore ported,220, reeds and airbox mod. Any suggestions on the airscrew?

 

[iainross]

I'm running a 91 KDX200sr jap import with the back of the airbox lid removed, a stripped out OEM front pipe and straight through DEP Sport silencer. I also intend to fit power reeds soon.

These changes made a big difference and a plug chop shows the jetting
(stock) is about right, but it was fluffing a bit b4 hitting the powerband. I raised the needle a notch (as far as it would go) which improved the mid but it is a bit rich up top and the bottom isn't quite right either. Thing is the code on the needle (N68K) doesn't match anything posted here or in the needles article. Any advice on needles and jet sizes would be appreciated.

I also rode a friends new KDX220 today and was amazed at the difference in the responsiveness off idle. Going up a hill, where my bike will bog down and stall in 2nd the 220 needs only the slightest amount of throttle and will happily spin the back wheel if given too much. Is this the result of 10 years development and 20cc or can my bike be improved?

I ride lanes and woods in Cornwall UK, sea level to about 600 feet I suppose.

Iain

 

[canyncarvr]

MitchS

Unless your carb is different from all the rest (just leaving some room to be incorrect..but I doubt it) you have a #7 TV (throttle valve=slide).

AS to best throttle response...likely to change with the weather.

Have you tried the BEL@3?

Better/worse/different how from #2?

 

[fishhead]

Mitch,
Check the TOP pf the slide. you should see a letter like "F" or "G". If I recall correctly, and Dan (Accutemp) may be able to verify this, F corresponds to #6 and G to #7 on the modified slides by RB.
The airscrew will probably be 1.5 to 1.75 turns out but the heine dyno is the best test.
hope that helps.

 

[70 marlin]

revisited: little in put please. I've had the chance to run the new needle CEL #3, 42/152, 75 deg, 40 to 1, 7BRES yamalube 2r, A/S 3/4 out it & 14/50 gearing. was a nice 50 mile trailride stayed in the top of 3rd bottom of fourth most of the time lots of lugging. bike ran good not great. seemed to be a bit fat still on the pilot. took about 2 sec to clean out when I hit the gas. but all in all no fouled plug. the plug was very carbon black apone inspection? so now I've installed a 38 from a 42 and will give it a try again whata think?

 

[OLD-N-SLOW]

Yep your gettin there,
I run a 35 pilot and would like to try a cem needle( larger dia) for a little cleaner low end. I do a lot of slow riding and putting.
But yes you will be fat with a 42 pilot and the cel needle.
Keep going leaner till it runs clean when put under a load(slight uphill section, slow speed).
It seems they will always 4-stroke a little when unloaded, and I fine with that as long as it cleans out rightaway when I twist the throttle or put a load on it.
You are getting to the same place jetting wise as Fredt.
It would save a lot of time if people would listen first. Pass along your knowledge to the next guy and watch him ignore it!
Does your bike run better with the CEL needle?
OH YEA
Steve

 

[70 marlin]

The CEL gives a nice hit, little fat on the bottom:>) I'm hoping to get a bit more with better jetting? I know I should do a search but I'm a bit short on time right now. what's the differance between the CEL & CEK? the CEK seems to be popular needle?