KDX at 50:1?
- Thread starter Tom A.
- Start date
C
CaNaDiAn,Eh?
I use Amsoil and run it at 50:1
I see .
It would be interesting to see what some people are using .
But post your altitude also for better comparisons .
I am using 32 : 1 TTS
155 main
45 pilot
3rd clip position
5000 feet above sea level
One of mates however could only get his bike to run correct with
32 : 1 TTS
180 main
48 pilot
top clip position
5000 feet .
It would be interesting to see what some people are using .
But post your altitude also for better comparisons .
I am using 32 : 1 TTS
155 main
45 pilot
3rd clip position
5000 feet above sea level
One of mates however could only get his bike to run correct with
32 : 1 TTS
180 main
48 pilot
top clip position
5000 feet .
A couple of things should be looked at when considering a move such as this.
First off...when we start taking recommendatiuons from Amsoil distributors, we must realize that any jack in the woods can be an Amsoil distributor. Amsoil products are sold using the MLM, pyramid network type of sales model. Being a distributor for thems means absolutely nothing at all, other than you fell for their marketing scheme somewhere along the line and decided to help them market their products. Nothing more.
More times than not, Amsoil distributors (if that is what they liked to be coined as) know absolutely nothing more about oil or engines than the marketing spiel that Amsoil corporate feeds them. Most of them I have talked to really like to throw the balony on thick and heavy though, almost as if they had half a clue.
And yes, there are 2T oils that will help to protect the engine from failures when used at lower oil amounts. But it is a known fact that a 2T engine makes better power when more oil is used.
And no matter what oil you choose to run, for optimum performance the carb needs to be jetted for the ratio you use. All circuits.
And recommendations by the maual are baseline, generic starting points. They are not placed in the manual because the engineers find it is the best ratio for the best performance. As mentioned before, do your homework on the proper jetting of a 2T engine and do not let generic recommendations and "My bike rips at 50:1" statements determine your decisions.
Being the KDX is a real tame 80's technology bike, it is normally ridden as such by most. And using a ratio like 40-32:1 is probably fine using just about any of the good 2T oils. But if you ride your bike at a level a bit higher than most of the KDX'ers, you should be considering using a ratio that will provide even more protection and power.
Less oil than 32:1 is NOT going to do that for you, I don't care what brand or formulation it is.
Tom, those so called distributors can only pull the wool over the eyes of the less-than-learned. And I'm sure they talk a good one, but you can bet they are clueless when taken outside of the box that Amsoil provides them.
First off...when we start taking recommendatiuons from Amsoil distributors, we must realize that any jack in the woods can be an Amsoil distributor. Amsoil products are sold using the MLM, pyramid network type of sales model. Being a distributor for thems means absolutely nothing at all, other than you fell for their marketing scheme somewhere along the line and decided to help them market their products. Nothing more.
More times than not, Amsoil distributors (if that is what they liked to be coined as) know absolutely nothing more about oil or engines than the marketing spiel that Amsoil corporate feeds them. Most of them I have talked to really like to throw the balony on thick and heavy though, almost as if they had half a clue.
And yes, there are 2T oils that will help to protect the engine from failures when used at lower oil amounts. But it is a known fact that a 2T engine makes better power when more oil is used.
And no matter what oil you choose to run, for optimum performance the carb needs to be jetted for the ratio you use. All circuits.
And recommendations by the maual are baseline, generic starting points. They are not placed in the manual because the engineers find it is the best ratio for the best performance. As mentioned before, do your homework on the proper jetting of a 2T engine and do not let generic recommendations and "My bike rips at 50:1" statements determine your decisions.
Being the KDX is a real tame 80's technology bike, it is normally ridden as such by most. And using a ratio like 40-32:1 is probably fine using just about any of the good 2T oils. But if you ride your bike at a level a bit higher than most of the KDX'ers, you should be considering using a ratio that will provide even more protection and power.
Less oil than 32:1 is NOT going to do that for you, I don't care what brand or formulation it is.
Tom, those so called distributors can only pull the wool over the eyes of the less-than-learned. And I'm sure they talk a good one, but you can bet they are clueless when taken outside of the box that Amsoil provides them.
Here is a good link to pre mix http://www.dansmc.com/2stroke_oil.htm
krazyinski
Member
- Feb 2, 2006
- 100
- 0
well old Dans an air cooled 70's two stroke hat, and is true for the old vintage 2strokes. trust me the basics are corect but the ratio's are off for any thing of this day and age. back in the 80's us poor guys would run a hotter plug and little more oil in the gas to gain compression for one more race before doing a top end. Only time I ever seen a two stroke crater the top end is if there was no oil or a lot of water in the gas.KDX CRAZY said:
32:1 Klotz, works fine for us on our KDX220 and Husky 125.
I run 5:1 in my high performance model airplane engines, again I use Klotz.
Still believe higher oil content provides a better seal between ring and cylinder transfering more heat out, cooler engine, less wear.The smaller the motor the more oil you should use,higher rpm and oil migration issues. :ride:
Although I have friends who use 100:1 Amsoil or Opti I will stick to what works for me, to each his own.
I run 5:1 in my high performance model airplane engines, again I use Klotz.
Still believe higher oil content provides a better seal between ring and cylinder transfering more heat out, cooler engine, less wear.The smaller the motor the more oil you should use,higher rpm and oil migration issues. :ride:
Although I have friends who use 100:1 Amsoil or Opti I will stick to what works for me, to each his own.
It will be quite awhile before adam is going to be able to come up with such a report.
Until then how about a report on how using more oil produces the best situations in a 2T engine?
http://edj.net/2stroke/jennings/oilpremix.pdf
Until then how about a report on how using more oil produces the best situations in a 2T engine?
http://edj.net/2stroke/jennings/oilpremix.pdf
I'm not disagreeing with what is said there. I don't mean to imply that more oil is a bad thing, but that site gives me no confidence in the information. The internet is full of more bad information than good, so when I see a site that appears to have nothing to back up the conclusions made I pretty much discredit it.
I've seen tests from back in the day where 20:1 was found to be an optimum ratio for power and protection, and they concluded 30:1 was too lean (if only I could find it again!). But also, oils have changed, and you can get away with smaller amounts of oil, although there is no real benifit to doing so.
The author of that site fails to touch on many important things. His comparison of oils with additives not providing as much lubrication as oils without (at the same mix ratio) fails to recognize that some additives actually help lubricate better under certian conditions. He also talks about ash, never mentioning that ash is actually formed by detergents, which some engines need to keep the ring lands clean from deposits. And ash isn't a bad thing, it's just blown out the exhaust, carbon deposits are what you want to avoid.
He also does not acknoledge that different engines and different riding styles can have an effect on what ratio is needed. An 80cc MX bike being rung to it's limits might need to run at 20:1 to live an acceptable life span. A stock KDX that plops along at a low speed single track with a beginner level rider may live a long and happy life with ratios near 100:1.
I've been working a lot with small engines lately. Dyno testing 31cc air cooled 2 strokes that will see full load WOT 7000+ rpm for 20-30 minutes at a time (and under go 4-20 tests). Spark plug temperature will hoover in the mid 500º F range, very hard running for a small engine. The manufacturer recommends a 40:1 mix when running this way. Out of probably 20 or more engines I've only seen 2 go down, and that was right away, due to machining or assembly problems, not lack of lubrication. They also run 50 hour sample engines under these conditions without problems.
In my bike I run anywhere from 32:1 to around 46:1, usually adjusting for temperature more than anything. Really hot day? Dump some more oil in to lean the jetting a touch. Cooler morning ride? Mix a little ligher on the oil so jetting is richer.
I've seen tests from back in the day where 20:1 was found to be an optimum ratio for power and protection, and they concluded 30:1 was too lean (if only I could find it again!). But also, oils have changed, and you can get away with smaller amounts of oil, although there is no real benifit to doing so.
The author of that site fails to touch on many important things. His comparison of oils with additives not providing as much lubrication as oils without (at the same mix ratio) fails to recognize that some additives actually help lubricate better under certian conditions. He also talks about ash, never mentioning that ash is actually formed by detergents, which some engines need to keep the ring lands clean from deposits. And ash isn't a bad thing, it's just blown out the exhaust, carbon deposits are what you want to avoid.
He also does not acknoledge that different engines and different riding styles can have an effect on what ratio is needed. An 80cc MX bike being rung to it's limits might need to run at 20:1 to live an acceptable life span. A stock KDX that plops along at a low speed single track with a beginner level rider may live a long and happy life with ratios near 100:1.
I've been working a lot with small engines lately. Dyno testing 31cc air cooled 2 strokes that will see full load WOT 7000+ rpm for 20-30 minutes at a time (and under go 4-20 tests). Spark plug temperature will hoover in the mid 500º F range, very hard running for a small engine. The manufacturer recommends a 40:1 mix when running this way. Out of probably 20 or more engines I've only seen 2 go down, and that was right away, due to machining or assembly problems, not lack of lubrication. They also run 50 hour sample engines under these conditions without problems.
In my bike I run anywhere from 32:1 to around 46:1, usually adjusting for temperature more than anything. Really hot day? Dump some more oil in to lean the jetting a touch. Cooler morning ride? Mix a little ligher on the oil so jetting is richer.
It's obvious that an engine run below it's full capacity will require less protection.
But the times you have your green bike bogged down in the muck, it is put through the same rigors that a high performance bike is.
I like knowing I am doing everything I can to protect the parts of my bike and utilize the power that it is capable of creating. I can see a person weighing out the cost of extra oil against the cost of an early rebuild, but to skimp on oil when cost is not a big factor, when the studies done by multiple pros in the field conclude that more oil is better, why would a person want to even chance it?
BTW...the "author", Gordon Jennings, was one of the worlds most renown technical moto writers. The man was mentor to some of the most brilliant in the business.
As that article was written probably 32 years ago, there are obviously things written that do not jive with what we know today. But, I can guarantee you that Mr. Jennings would have been studied up on all there was to study up on, concerning the topic at hand, including and especially engines and the constant pursuit of their optimum performance.
Just wanted to let you know you were critiquing a legend.
But the times you have your green bike bogged down in the muck, it is put through the same rigors that a high performance bike is.
I like knowing I am doing everything I can to protect the parts of my bike and utilize the power that it is capable of creating. I can see a person weighing out the cost of extra oil against the cost of an early rebuild, but to skimp on oil when cost is not a big factor, when the studies done by multiple pros in the field conclude that more oil is better, why would a person want to even chance it?
BTW...the "author", Gordon Jennings, was one of the worlds most renown technical moto writers. The man was mentor to some of the most brilliant in the business.
As that article was written probably 32 years ago, there are obviously things written that do not jive with what we know today. But, I can guarantee you that Mr. Jennings would have been studied up on all there was to study up on, concerning the topic at hand, including and especially engines and the constant pursuit of their optimum performance.
Just wanted to let you know you were critiquing a legend.
G. Gearloose
Pigment of ur imagination
- Jul 24, 2000
- 709
- 0
155810958 said:
Plug shouldn't have color, jet it.
shawn10ski
Member
- Apr 6, 2006
- 13
- 0
32:1
I have a 1987 KDX 200 and I have been running Golden Spectro at 32:1 and I foul a plug every 6 rides...bad. I switched out to 40:1 and I'll see how that goes. Stock jetting.
I have a 1987 KDX 200 and I have been running Golden Spectro at 32:1 and I foul a plug every 6 rides...bad. I switched out to 40:1 and I'll see how that goes. Stock jetting.
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