Reversing a tire
- Thread starter jaypro55
- Start date
...and my point wasn't that I'm made of money (quite the opposite actually). My point is that the gain in traction isn't worth messing with it. I say just leave the tire on until you're ready to put a new one on. Fipping it won't make it feel any better. It'll still corner like a worn out tire.
los36,
You will very seldom see the "shock load" causing wear. Sprockets, even aluminum of good quality, can withstand just about all the shock load we can give them.
The valley does not grow. In fact, on hardened sprockets, the area of the valley is not hardened becasue it is not neccesary. The only geometry that changes will be the 'working face' of the teeth.
Both sides of a tooth has a working face. When the chain elongates from wear, the primary working face of each tooth will wear from normal use. The secondary working face, or the one on the back side, will only wear if it sees a load. When we back off the throttle, the tooth will see a load on the secondary working face, but unless the chain is of a different pitch than the sprocket it won't wear. Now once a chain has grown a bit, then there is a pitch variance because in theory, the secondary faces will still be at new pitch. Since there is far less force exerted on the assembly from decompression or deceleration, than there is from forward power, the secondary faces wear very little in comparison to the primary face.
When the chain grows past about 2-3% of it's original pitch, it rides up the sprocket tooth. So it actually is riding in a different circumference than it was when new. That is when tooth damage can occur. Granted, when you decelerate with a worn chain it will tend to wear the back side of the tooth, but as I mentioned before it's at a much lesser rate. Normally only a decompressing 4 cycle engine has enough force to cause noticible wear before the primary face is trashed.
(One thing.... proper lubrication has everything to do with the whole schmear.)
So, I contend that you can in fact reverse a sprocket. I never do.
Mike, My sidewinder is not reversible.
You will very seldom see the "shock load" causing wear. Sprockets, even aluminum of good quality, can withstand just about all the shock load we can give them.
The valley does not grow. In fact, on hardened sprockets, the area of the valley is not hardened becasue it is not neccesary. The only geometry that changes will be the 'working face' of the teeth.
Both sides of a tooth has a working face. When the chain elongates from wear, the primary working face of each tooth will wear from normal use. The secondary working face, or the one on the back side, will only wear if it sees a load. When we back off the throttle, the tooth will see a load on the secondary working face, but unless the chain is of a different pitch than the sprocket it won't wear. Now once a chain has grown a bit, then there is a pitch variance because in theory, the secondary faces will still be at new pitch. Since there is far less force exerted on the assembly from decompression or deceleration, than there is from forward power, the secondary faces wear very little in comparison to the primary face.
When the chain grows past about 2-3% of it's original pitch, it rides up the sprocket tooth. So it actually is riding in a different circumference than it was when new. That is when tooth damage can occur. Granted, when you decelerate with a worn chain it will tend to wear the back side of the tooth, but as I mentioned before it's at a much lesser rate. Normally only a decompressing 4 cycle engine has enough force to cause noticible wear before the primary face is trashed.
(One thing.... proper lubrication has everything to do with the whole schmear.)
So, I contend that you can in fact reverse a sprocket. I never do.
Mike, My sidewinder is not reversible.
Jbird-
I find your last post much more agreeable. :confused:
When I speak of the "valleys growing", I do not mean deeper. I mean the distance between the "working face" and "secondary working face". I contend that the increased force of impact between the chain rollers and the working face is ONE of the causes of sprocket wear. This is assuming proper chain maintenece and replacement when neccesary.
I understand your point about the pitch of the chain being maintained; sprockets wear evenly on each tooth...so the pitch is not really changing, therefore should not wear out a new chain any faster. I contened that a new chain on a freshly "turned around" sprocket will not make a sprocket last any longer because of the distance between the working and secondary working faces. And, like you said, the tooth will already be fatigued. So, like the tire argument going on, why bother reversing the sprocket when you'll have to replace it in a couple of weeks anyway? Unless of course, payday is a couple of weeks away! :)
I find your last post much more agreeable. :confused:
When I speak of the "valleys growing", I do not mean deeper. I mean the distance between the "working face" and "secondary working face". I contend that the increased force of impact between the chain rollers and the working face is ONE of the causes of sprocket wear. This is assuming proper chain maintenece and replacement when neccesary.
I understand your point about the pitch of the chain being maintained; sprockets wear evenly on each tooth...so the pitch is not really changing, therefore should not wear out a new chain any faster. I contened that a new chain on a freshly "turned around" sprocket will not make a sprocket last any longer because of the distance between the working and secondary working faces. And, like you said, the tooth will already be fatigued. So, like the tire argument going on, why bother reversing the sprocket when you'll have to replace it in a couple of weeks anyway? Unless of course, payday is a couple of weeks away! :)
You are getting loser, Los36...but not there yet.
The pitch on a worn tooth's primary working face does indeed change. The reason it changes is becasue wear on the chain parts has caused the chain to elongate. This growth of chain pitch trasfers to the sprocket.
Now, if you have sprocket assembly that has been running with a chain that has grown say 3%, then there will be a measurable difference in sprocket pitch from when new. Placing a new chain on a sprocket that has a longer pitch will tend to make it hard for things to engage properly. This will show in accelerated wear of both the new chain and the old sprocket.
But, the secondary working face will not have much wear at all. The pitch will in fact still be very close to new pitch. So, if you turn a sprocket around you need to have a new or nearly new chain for it to be effective.
I would never turn an aluminum sprocket around, but I would consider turning a steel sprocket around, as long as you didn't deform the teeth of the other side too bad.
It won't wear out in a couple of weeks, quite the contrary. IF it is adjusted and lubricated properly, it should last as long as the first set-up did.
(Just because they wear the spaces equally doesn't mean the pitch isn't changing, it only means that every tooth pitch is changing together. But it's the primary face changing, the secondary does not...or minimally.)
The pitch on a worn tooth's primary working face does indeed change. The reason it changes is becasue wear on the chain parts has caused the chain to elongate. This growth of chain pitch trasfers to the sprocket.
Now, if you have sprocket assembly that has been running with a chain that has grown say 3%, then there will be a measurable difference in sprocket pitch from when new. Placing a new chain on a sprocket that has a longer pitch will tend to make it hard for things to engage properly. This will show in accelerated wear of both the new chain and the old sprocket.
But, the secondary working face will not have much wear at all. The pitch will in fact still be very close to new pitch. So, if you turn a sprocket around you need to have a new or nearly new chain for it to be effective.
I would never turn an aluminum sprocket around, but I would consider turning a steel sprocket around, as long as you didn't deform the teeth of the other side too bad.
It won't wear out in a couple of weeks, quite the contrary. IF it is adjusted and lubricated properly, it should last as long as the first set-up did.
(Just because they wear the spaces equally doesn't mean the pitch isn't changing, it only means that every tooth pitch is changing together. But it's the primary face changing, the secondary does not...or minimally.)
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jmics19067
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- Jan 22, 2002
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Ok Jaybird I think I have a chance to bust your chops and I am going to use it!!!! ;) ;) it should be close yes very close on a two stroke that relies heavily on brakes and not quite as close as say a trailriding fourstroke that relies on engine braking a lot. I know I know very picky but you are too dam good and i just had to take a shot when I could :moon:
btw that mx 1000 is awesome stuff except for one problem I have.
MY COMPLIMENTARY BOTTLES ARE ALMOST EMPTY!!!!!!!!!! when you gonna sell the stuff or atleast tell me how I can get more!!!! this may sound whacky but when I wash my bike and let it dry and push it I swear I can feel the difference on how much easier it is to push the bike with the chain lubed with your stuff on it then when it is just cleaned. I am using the snot out of it motorcycles, bicycles, heck I am using it on squeaky door hinges!!!
You are correct jmics, but only if the chain has elongated. If the chain and sprockets are still new pitch, then even strong decompression will not deform the back side of the teeth. The sprocket will only wear when the chain has worn. Either side, doesn't matter. Only when the chain starts to wear will you see any deformation of either side.
Thanks for the compliment, Sir. I totally know what you experience on the pushing thing. I ride a granny bike (trike) in factories often and when I start to hear a bit of noise comming from the chain I lube it with my stuff and the resistance is mucho noticibly less. (LOL...never have thrown the trike on the dyno though)
Thanks for the compliment, Sir. I totally know what you experience on the pushing thing. I ride a granny bike (trike) in factories often and when I start to hear a bit of noise comming from the chain I lube it with my stuff and the resistance is mucho noticibly less. (LOL...never have thrown the trike on the dyno though)
jmics19067
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- Jan 22, 2002
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well although you understood what you thought I said I am not so sure you heard what I meant to say ;)
I was thinking along the lines of of new chain on flipped over sprockets. Since the now backsides of the sprockets are already worn the four stroke decompression will SLIGHTLY exaggerate chain wear which in turn will be transferred to the front when accelerating. But anywho I would flip them over if given the oppurtunity. As for the tires I would sharpen the knobs only because I am too darn lazy to pull the wheel off and flip it over.<ever since I heard about using a 4 " grinder it is a relatively quick job ,stinky but easier then flipping>
I was thinking along the lines of of new chain on flipped over sprockets. Since the now backsides of the sprockets are already worn the four stroke decompression will SLIGHTLY exaggerate chain wear which in turn will be transferred to the front when accelerating. But anywho I would flip them over if given the oppurtunity. As for the tires I would sharpen the knobs only because I am too darn lazy to pull the wheel off and flip it over.<ever since I heard about using a 4 " grinder it is a relatively quick job ,stinky but easier then flipping>