Take a Look.

[JuliusPleaser]

There comes a point when a professional second-guesser is more divisive than cohesive. I lived with one for 10 years, so I'm qualified to make that statement.

There was a time when Milque attcked every post I made. I wasn't too concerned with that, but I made a mental note of it. He seems to relish making inflammatory comments - and always takes a militant Lib stance in any political discussion.

It's not what you say or feel, it's when, where, and how you express it.

Anybody with an iota of compassion (or COMMON SENSE) would know that this thread is not the place to leap to the defense of (apparently) non-patriotic people.

Milque, I wish you all the best in your future endeavors.

 

[Ol'89r]

Originally posted by Milquetoast
If they had known that they were supposed to stand, I'd bet that they would be standing.

I thought ALL true Americans knew this. :|

Good call Okie. :thumb: I don't know about anyone else, but I have had a butt-full of this PC crap.

Did I just hear a door slam. :scream: :) :yeehaw:

Ol'proud to be an American.

 

[biglou]

We have freedoms afforded us by living in this country. But it is not a free-for-all. That's anarchy. Freedoms, yes, but with rules, too. Freedom isn't free. Cliched, but very true. No one has the right to do or say whatever they want, whenever they want, wherever they want. That would be a gross misinterpretation of our constitution. Some folks like to parrot that stance, however. I don't buy it. It's BS. That is not what the freedoms of this country are intended to serve.

 

[a454elk]

Boy, did I miss the boat on this one. I won't drag out a long reply but want to add this. Those people that were sitting there didn't show there patriotism by attending the parade, they just went to the parade. If you don't have a clue to stand at the appropriate time out of respect, take a hike man! All this PC bull**** has gone way too far.

I'll tell you what, if I die making sure your freedom is still there and if you attend my funeral, when my wife gets the American flag and you don't stand, with God as my witness, I'll haunt you till the end.

God bless America!

 

[Senior KX Rider]

Rich is right Alan, there is much more to this situation than you know. I have no problem with a person having a dissenting opinion and have no problem with them sharing that opinion. I think most here feel the same way. I do however have a problem with said person habitually using that opinion to incite flareups on this board and then boast about his control over people. He did this crap for kicks. In the open forums where there are hundreds and hundreds of people reading these flareups would turn into a pile on every time. When you get a pimple on your *** and it really turns into a PITA you pop it. Thats life :think:

 

[Senior KX Rider]

And 89r, I'm with you brother. Politically Correct Sucks :thumb:

 

[Jaybird]

I remember when a certain fella was ousted from here for sending a less than desirable e-mail to a young man. The young man was quite upset, and rightly so....and he chose to let the Admin. here see this PM. It got him booted immediately.
Milquephart sent me a few PM's and e-mails that showed his true colors, which is far from what he showed here for all to see. I could easily have quickened his demise by showing a couple fo these messesages to the powers that be, but I knew there would come a time when he would choke on his own defication.
Alan, if he was even close to being cordial in his mailings to you, I'm more than positive it was nothing more than a show, at best.

 

[BSWIFT]

When you get a pimple on your *** and it really turns into a PITA you pop it. Thats life !

That takes symbolizm to a new height! :aj: Well said, SKR. :thumb:

 

[IrishEKU]

Ditto SKXR,

I have deleated many of Milque's e-mails in the past due to his "I want to be the voice of opposition views"......

Phillip

 

[XRpredator]

I've communicated with the Milque via PM in the past as well. As the official "stirrer of the poo", I guess he just went too far. I just wish he'd known how to hold his tongue when appropriate. It's nice to hear the other side once in a while, even if it's a tad inflammatory. But when it's all the time, it gets old.

I also sometimes wonder if he even believes what he says, or if it is just to be the lone voice of dissention.

 

[Treejumper]

Originally posted by Ol'89r
I thought ALL true Americans knew this. :|

I bet half of the Americans under 16 years of age dont know this unless they learned it from their parents. Wonder how many even know the words to the Pledge of Allegance? I remember saying it in school and learning to respect the flag and most importantly "Why you respect the flag". Guess i should be thankful i grew up in a military family and spent alot of time in overseas military schools because i know what it is to respect our county, flag and military personal. :thumb:

 

[SirThumper]

Originally posted by XRpredator
I've communicated with the Milque via PM in the past as well. As the official "stirrer of the poo", I guess he just went too far

He's never PM'd me before, hehe, but I did have a little debate with him.

As for the parade- We have a small town parade every year that is started by a couple of jets flying over. I get chills just seeing them flying over real low. I learned how to stand for the flag way back in pre-school, but the sad fact is that there are a lot of people that just don't do it, yes, I think it is a lack of respect thing, the number one cause of loosing respect in my pinion is lack of discipline. On a personal level, discipline takes effort. I think people just get lazy.

The last few years I have noticed that the parade goers were pretty quiet (I remember there was a time everyone cheered and had a good time.) This year was totally different, Ive never seen so many flags waving, people cheering, hand on hearts. I was even proud of my stepson when he saw the flag coming. As he was standing up, he looked over to his little brother and said "Take your hat off and put it over your heart". I did see a lot of lack of respect, mostly from young people with thier hats on backwards and their underwear hanging out. I for one stood up on my crutches and covered my heart.

This was a great thread.

 

[biglou]

Originally posted by XRpredator
I also sometimes wonder if he even believes what he says, or if it is just to be the lone voice of dissention.

Pred, I have a very good friend that I worked with on government contract. Guy was an ordenanceman. Great guy. From New Jersey. We were actually on the same ship on the same deployment back in 86, he in the Navy and me in the Corps, quite the coincidence. Anyhoo, this guy would argue with you just for sport. Just to see if he could piss you off. He would even change sides if he felt you were swayed into believing him, just to keep the arguement going! I know that sounds odd, but if you were intelligent enough to see what he was doing, it could be quite amuzing to watch or participate. A rather odd character, but a great guy nonetheless!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by Milquedud
C'mon, those people were there and being patriotic, good citizens, etc. To fault them for an etiquette faux pas is kinda nit-picking, don't you think? If they had known that they were supposed to stand, I'd bet that they would be standing. I understand this flame Lou, but there's alot worse than that going on. (need a shrug-shoulders icon here)

The proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[bscottr]

Vic,
You're right.....but this one convinced me of his total disregard for the flag and patriotism.

Originally posted by Milquetoast
I actually don't remember if I got out and stood, but I think we changed drivers at the time so maybe so, maybe not.

In case he finds a way to sneak back in via another member.... Milq, this :moon: is for you!

Originally posted by Milquetoast
Damn Okie, you're freakin out dude. ............ We were doing fine with a simple discussion until your post. :|

This is the one that did it for me. Not only does he crap on the floor, he drags it through the house. Okie's house.

Good call on expediting his departure! :thumb:

 

[BSWIFT]

Stirring the pot sometimes is necessary to keep things from sticking. Constant stirring is unneeded. I dare say that MOST people would not run into a rally for a particular cause and start shouting out the voice of opposition without some reinforcements. This past week stirred emotions that run quite deep in a LOT of people not just DRN members. Playing devils advocate in this case was untimely, unnecessary, and inappropriate. It has been stated by several moderators that this was consistant behavior of the offender not an every now and again thing.

 

[GETMETOCA]

Originally posted by BSWIFT
This past week stirred emotions that run quite deep in a LOT of people not just DRN members. Playing devils advocate in this case was untimely, unnecessary, and inappropriate

BSWIFT, I could not have said it better. As I read this thread, your thoughts (above) mirrored mine exactly. BigLou, this was an excellent thread discussion, thanks.

 

[endosports]

Originally posted by BSWIFT
. Playing devils advocate in this case was untimely, unnecessary, and inappropriate.

Besides the point we all know there is only ONE of those needed around here.

Milq tried to befriend me when I was acting like an A-hole. Just goes to show misery loves company.

 

[zio]

I'm late to the party, but I have something to add re the folks who didn't stand. But before I do, I'd like to preface it with this: I think, like the rest of you, that Political Correctness has gone waaaay too far in this country. I'm sick and tired of everyone walking on eggshells to protect someone's feelings. Sh*t or get off the pot. We're Americans, and I hate anything or anyone that tries to take away from our heritage, pride, or freedom. Period.

That said- I grew up in a completely different world than most of you. I grew up in the Lesbian capital of the world (no kidding). Santa Cruz is an official "Nuclear free zone". :silly: A recent mayor was gay. Every public school teacher I ever had, save three that I recall, were not just D*mocrat, but hardcore liberal. Wearing any sort of fragrance (perfume or cologne) violates a city ordinance. There are more vegan restaurants than there are steakhouses. "Normal" is considered obscene. Family values are laughed at. The city plans on hosting a Medical Marijuana handout on the steps of city hall to protest the DEA's recent arrest of a pair of pot farmers in the Santa Cruz mountains. My teachers quit doing the pledge after the 5th grade. Our highschool had a protest & walkout the day before Desert Storm. After that, the city has refused to invite U.S. Naval ships to anchor off the Municipal Wharf (a tradition until 1991). I was truly a minority among my peers. I learned to keep my mouth shut after 10th grade. Debating my teachers got to be a chore, and often affected my grades & the treatment I rec'd. Needless to say, anything resembling love for our country and respect wasn't taught.

All I know about patriotism was taught to me by my father. He is not a U.S. citizen. He is, however, as patriotic as anyone else. He loves this country. When he rec'd his draft notice during Vietnam (no joke), he never once tried to get out of it by alerting the Navy that he wasn't a U.S. citizen (I swear, they never asked him- true story). He did his duty and served the country that has served him since 1960. He flies a flag every holiday that calls for it. I was taught, from a very early age, to remove my hat during the pledge & national anthem. But somehow, I don't remember being taught to stand when the flag passes in a parade. And I don't think, until seeing Lou's pic, that it would have dawned on me. And please, believe me when I say I get goosebumps when the anthem is sang (always have), and do everything I know to be respectful of our country and our traditions. But I might have been one of those folks who didn't stand.

After highschool, I went to college in Longview, Texas. I had wanted to join the Marines, but my dad wanted me to get a college education. He insisted, so I obliged. I was literally blown away. That's when I finally learned- I had no idea just how backwards Santa Cruz was. I always thought that was how society was, and conservatism was only practiced by the few churchgoers in town. WRONG! I was in the heart of America, and I loved it. I learned so much about patriotism & showing pride for my country while I was there. And I learned just how disgusting my hometown was.

A few years ago, my great uncle James Byrd died. He was in the march of Baton in WW2, and a prisoner of the Japanese in their secret camps. He was tortured, used as a human guinnea pig, you name it. So when he died, he was given a funeral with full military honors. My dad was so excited that I was going to get to witnes this. Instead, I was a little torn. I cried the whole time. Some was out of pride & heartfelt patriotism, some was sadness, and also I was embarrased and ashemed that I had never served my country like the rest of the men in my family.

I guess what I want to impress on some of you is that it is possible for someone to not know to do something like stand when the flag passes in a parade. I don't think the same for removing your hat- that' something everyone should know just from seeing others do it at ballgames & such. Please don't get me wrong- I don't agree with Milquetoasts explaination or acceptance, or whatever crap he was trying to mix in the stew.

 

[JPIVEY]

That was a very cool post Zio

Originally posted by zio

All I know about patriotism was taught to me by my father

My Dad passed away 18 months ago, " at the age of 19 he was a Bomber pilot stationed in Australia, protecting it from Japan, by the time he was 23 he had flown missions in all three WWII theaters, after WWII he was called back at the time of the Korean War and remained active all though the Viet Nam War until he retired in 66; In 91 (age 69) he was on his way to help in Desert Storm as a Clerk/Communication, what stopped him was my Mom, she said only one thing, and that was , Haven’t you had enough ??, I think he regretted not going, but figured he was needed at home with her.

It wasn’t till after he died, that us kids realized just what his life was all about, his love of country and how highly decorated he was; there is even a coffee table size book called ‘ Best In The Southwest’ that depicts his service in Australia, it shames me to think that at 19 he was protecting my rights, when at 19 I was racing dirt bikes.


Anyhow, that picture reminds me of a Man I once had the honor of calling Dad and the disrespect I see in that photo is an insult to him

All I know about patriotism was taught to me by my father.

 

[Senior KX Rider]

:cool:

 

[biglou]

Zio: :thumb:

JPIVEY: :thumb:

:cool:

 

[bscottr]

Originally posted by BigLou
Zio: :thumb:

JPIVEY: :thumb:

I agree....outstanding! Zio, there's no doubt in my mind that you'll pass that lesson along.

 

[BSWIFT]

Where is the applause emoticon! Clap, clap, clap.

 

[Jeff Allen]

Originally posted by zio
I was embarrased and ashemed that I had never served my country like the rest of the men in my family.

I too have always felt this way everytime I hear of service men dying for our freedom.

This last Memorial Day I attended the services held at Fort Custer. At the entrance to the cemetery the road is lined with flags donated from family members of those that had died that served our country, and was shocked that over 12 of those flags had been stolen by some punk kids.

If people don't want to stand for our flag, disgrace it, etc. then I'll use them to stand on when I rise for it!