Ugh, the four stroke debate. Are you happy with it? and why?

[Closet Case Nerd]

It seems alot of people have jumped on the "four stroke bandwagon." It seems every post that i see with a comparison between two strokes and four bangers there are at least 1/3 of the thread going "i had a XXX brand 450F/250F and i traded it in for a XXX brand 250, much happier now, less weight, handles like a dream, less complications." At first i thought four strokes were gunna be the next big thing, but it seems that they were just modern marvels and over publicized, but not really 2 stroke killers. Right now im on the fence about getting a 200 or 300 series KTM 2 stroke and a 450F 4 banger for tight woods and motocross... What scares me off about these 4 strokes is the comments on weight, grenading engines, maitnence, and the frequency/cost of top end rebuilds. what are your opinions? any of you guys make the switch from a 250 MX'r and feel it was the right choice other then feeling guilty for spending all that money :laugh: Can you tell me why you like your thumper more? and if there are some of you that got your thumper and arent so hot about it, speak up, please, before i make a 6K dollar mistake!

I think people are biased to say they love their 4 banger just because A: its new, and B: they spent all that money.. im looking for honest opinons, please

i just want to know what exactly it is that you love about your 4 strokes so much, and if you miss anything about a two stroke, please, chime in. thats all

 

[Moto Squid]

I just made the jump from a 125 to a 250F and couldn't be happier :yeehaw: As long as you keep up on oil changes, keep a clean air filter, and valve adjustments you can get alot of life out of a thumper before you rebuild it. My friend didn't do any of that on his yzf426 and it cost about $1000 to rebuild it...and most of that was just parts!! Somehow that poor bike lived through 3 years of neglect before letting go. I really like my 250F, so far the few extra pounds isn't noticed. I really like just being able to go to the gas station and filling the can. No more ratio rite or finding out I've run out of premix. The best thing is it's a blast to ride which is always good in my book :laugh: My only issue has been with jetting. They're more complicated and this one seems more touchy than my old 125. I know this is all 125 stuff and not 250, but hopefully it'll help.

 

[RYDMOTO]

I bought a 2004 CRF450 and could not be happier.I had a RM 125,two CR250's and I now tell myself I will never go bcak to two strokes.Also at 44 years old I feel the four stroke has rejuvenated my desire to ride more often.They are so much fun to ride and suit my roll on style of riding.They are not for everybody I will admit that much.I can ride longer too for that matter.

 

[Okiewan]

Another 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke thread? Yeeeehaww!
here are some of the same:

http://dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=88221
http://dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=93583
http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=88168&highlight=4-strokes
http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=94839&highlight=4-strokes

..and there are many more. These were found by using the search function (top of the page) with the phrase/word: 4-stroke

 

[snullia]

I’m 38 years old, fun and trails, no racing. I had been riding a KTM EXC 520 for 2 years, but went for a 250 cc MX bike instead earlier this year.

Why ?? The KTM is a big, heavy bike. I really liked it for long trail/tour rides and high-speed fire-roads, but it just is not that much fun in the really rough trail rides we plan to do more of. Also the riding buddy’s want to do more track riding and I simply found the KTM boring for that use.

Also I really like the simple design of a 2-stroke, much less work to do engine maintenance. And unlike the old XR- type 4-stroke bikes a modern high performance 4-stroke bike is not maintenance free…

In short:
Wanted a simple, snappy light weight bike instead of a heavy bike with massive power/torque.

 

[Closet Case Nerd]

see, but thats the thing, what tires you out more? weight, or power delivery? thats exactly what im stuck on

i went to the track and watched the thumpers move around the track and it seems that on the choppy sections and turns the four stroke is MUCH smoother, and it seemed that in general thumpers were a bit quicker around the track, some of that is no doubt rider.. but im wondering what some of these guys looked like back when they were on two strokes

 

[Jeff Gilbert]

Try watching this with the sound turned off and see if he looks as smooth on the 4 stroke as he does the 2 stroke.
Click Here

 

[Anssi]

RC is one guy I never thought anyone would describe as smooth. Anyways, I have to ride my YZ450F since they don´t make proper open class two-strokes anymore.

The 250s are nice and light but when some hyperactive kid on a 125 starts to yell behind me in turns to make me get out of the way, I have to have something to teach the brat to respect his elders. A mouthful of roost will have to suffice since I don't have to talent to beat them on speed.

 

[kdxtodd]

I think the older you get, the more you like 4-strokes. My dad is 43, and he loves 4-strokes. I think its less tiring to ride the thumpers, but it dosn't matter when your under 35. I got more tired riding his yz400 than my kx250 because its soooo heavy. anyways
In short, you can be lazy and still have fun :thumb:

 

[Chevalier]

I started on a CR125, then got a YZF250 now I'm back on a KX250 2-Stroke!
Reasons I went from a 2-stroke to a 4-stroke:
It is easier(for most people) to get a better finishing place on a 250F in the 125 class,
I found one going cheap with little use,
I heard you have to do less maintaince on one than on a 2-Stroke,
I wanted to try a new type of bike,
They seem to tire you out less(and I was just getting back into MX after a 1 year break after an accident and wasn't too fit!!!)
Reasons I went back to a 2-Stroke:
Sick of doing complicated maintaince(at similar intervals!),
Sick of doing oil changes every few rides,
I heard of far too many people having their 4-stroke blow-up and cost 2500+ to fix it(some seem regardless of maintaince done?!),
In Ireland they have split MX races into separate classes so the classes are now: 125 2-stroke, 250+ 2-stroke, 250F 4-stroke and 450F+ 4-stroke. So owning a 4-stroke no longer helps you win races! :),
A KX250 with little use came up for sale at a good price,
I rode my brothers KX125 and had much more fun on it than on my YZF, 2-strokes have a hit of power!

I have only done a few races on my KX250 so far and at the moment I am a similar speed on it as I was on my YZ250F and I had never ridden a 250 2-stroke before buying this one so I am still getting used to it...
I haven't noticed myself being any more tired than I was on my YZF.

Also I'm not sure what the resale values are like in the US, but most of the big shops here won't buy a used 4-stroke, and the ones that will buy one, take the market value and knock E1000($1200) off it! :think:

 

[snullia]

Chevalier – are you located in Dublin?? If so, can you please point out some good off-road shops, for after marked stuff and parts??

 

[parkerCR]

This is an interesting topic. I have an 01 CR250 and really enjoy the power. I have ridden the CRF450 and wanted one ever since. My issue is that I am tired of the maintenance with the CR and I know it will be equal or better with the CRF.
I know that the XR is a very reliable machine but I love the power of the CRF. I wish they were just as bullet proof, but that is apparently not the case. I only ride for recreation but do get on the throttle quite a bit. I am not excited about a $1000 top end. How is the jetting with the CRF? It seems like I jet my CR quite a bit to get it running smooth. Is the CRF a bike where stock jetting works in most applications?

Thanks

 

[mxer842]

Last year on my yz125 i was lucky to crack top 20, as soon as i got my yz250f i've started hovering just inside the top 10...i dont think the speed is very different once you are on the track, but i went from getting 35th place starts and coming through the pack to getting 15-20th place starts and working up...the maintenence isn't to bad, checking valves is easy and then you only have simple things like changing your oil. I think the horror stories people talk about is because guys think, it is a four-stroke and they can run three seasons on a top-end and not expect problems, two-strokes can cost $1000+ if they seize and need a major rebuilt, but two-strokers recognize that their bikes are high maintanence and take the proper precautions, when some of these 4stroke guys realize the same we will see less of these horror stories.

 

[parkerCR]

mxer842

Thanks for the post. Is the jetting pretty consistent or is it simallar to a two-stroke that needs tuning for elevation and
temperature?

 

[Zenith]

snullia:
Yep, I'm in Dublin. We tend to get all our parts from Race Spec(www.racespec.co.uk) or 1stMX(www.1stmx.co.uk) in the UK because its WAY cheaper, we are also in the process of getting an order from the US because stuff like bearing kits are almost exactly half price(because of good exchange rate)!!! :ohmy:
There is also Russells Motorcycles in Northern Ireland, they are cheap and shipping isn't too much.
Around Dublin there is CCM(**seriously** expensive-a friend saved nearly E2500 by getting a CRF in Russells instead of CCM! and they charged my E20 for a spark plug) so avoid them if possible!
My Local mechanic is Paul Kavanagh(in Rathfarnham) people just don't come more decent than him! If you want a service or parts, I'd go to him first. His no. is 2960955
In Wexford there are Tuttys Offroad(they are usually cheaper than CCM and are really nice to deal with).
I'm still on Thumper Talk as Chevalier if you want to PM me for phone numbers for Russells or Tuttys etc...

 

[Chevalier]

upps the previous post was from me, my brother was logged in on this pc and I only noticed when I submitted the reply :think:

 

[mxer842]

the jetting is fine, once you get it set for your area you should only need a fuel screw adjustment now and then as things warm up, i have run my bike in morning practice at 30 degrees to my second moto which is probably 60 degrees with no blubbering and never touching the jetting, on my yz125 i would usually be playing with the jetting if we had that kind of swing in temps.