1967 Triumph TR6C Rebuild by a noob.

[Okiewan]

Terry,
You mentioned special tools earlier. I've seen some of the stuff company's make, wondering what I can get by with... I don't intend to rebuild triumph engines for a living :) . Here's what I found (other than hand tools) in the Triumph toolbox mentioned earlier; obviously some pullers, no idea if they are specific to the job or...? No idea what some of the other items are. I'm guessing you can ID these and let me know what else I'll need?

 

[Ol'89r]

HLG is into Kayaking. He found it is a lot softer hitting water than it is hitting dirt.
The only puller I recognize is the clutch hub puller in the lower center of the pic. A good site for info is www.britishonly.com/technicallibrary. You can download parts books and instruction books from this site. A good parts source is www.jrcengineering.com These are the guys I get most of my parts from.
Lowbrow vids are pretty good. I haven't seen all of them but what I have seen are good. I can help you with the special tools you may need when you get to that point.
Disassemble the bottom end first. Primary, clutch etc. Any standard gear puller will pull the engine sprocket off. Then disassemle the timing side. It is easier to do it this way because you will have resistance while removing the nuts and you won't have the loose rods flopping around. Then remove the top end.
You may not have to remove the cam gears and cams depending upon the wear in the cam bushings. If the cam bushings feel tight, you can leave the cams and the gears in the right side case.
You will have to remove the crankshaft pinion gear and that takes a special puller. One of the pullers on the top right side of the pic may work for that if they fit behind the gear. The cam gears take a special puller and by using a standard gear puller you can damage the bushings. Next time I talk with Gomer I will tell him the guys on DRN are jones'n for a good laugh.

 

[Okiewan]

Sweet ... hoping for good cam bushings. On the other hand, I may replace all the bushings and bearings anyway... unless it's obvious they are recent.

Part of the mystery is that in the boxes of parts I went through last night, were (used) pistons, rings & rods. Nothing to indicate if they were even in any of these bikes, or possibly from the '67 TT he sold years ago. Since the TR6 was his favorite and one he was going to sell, maybe I'll get lucky and that motor was rebuilt recently. I sure wish his memory was better.

Anyway... thanks again for the great info. I wouldn't have thought that I could get away with leaving the cams / gears alone.

BTW: I guess I'll transition this thread into a rebuild "story" from a noob's (never split a case) perspective. Someone might find it useful?

 

[Okiewan]

Too late to turn back now...

So I tossed my hat on the bench and thought, yeah, that works.

No way to get that motor out without removing the rocker boxes. Removing everything else I can to reduce weight... If I recall correctly, the 650 motor weighs 130+ lbs ( I'll be lifting it out and to the bench solo)

 

[Ol'89r]

Too late to turn back now...

So I tossed my hat on the bench and thought, yeah, that works.
View attachment 20777



Now way to get that motor out without removing the rocker boxes. Removing everything else I can to reduce weight... If I recall correctly, the 650 motor weighs 130+ lbs ( I'll be lifting it out and to the bench solo)

View attachment 20778

You can remove the engine by removing the four long rocker box bolts but it is much easier if you remove the rocker boxes completely. Also, remove the primary cover. Engine will be less bulky and easier to hold on to. Remove the engine from the left side.

 

[Ol'89r]

Bob. Here are the basic special tools needed to rebuild a 650 engine.
1. Clutch holding tool.
2. Used pinion gear to lock timing gears.
3. L/S roller bearing, outer race removal tool.
4. Cam gear installation tool.
5. Cam gear removal tool.
6. Crank pinion gear puller.
7. Clutch hub puller.
8. Top dead center finder.
9. Degree wheel adapter/holder.
10. Rocker shaft O-ring installation tool.
11. Point seal installation tool.
12. Point cam removal tool.
13. Degree wheel for ignition timing.
14. Cam bushing line-bore reamer.
15. Tap for removing cam bushings from L/S case.

 

[Ol'89r]

Let the fun begin. Buwwwwaaahahahaha!

 

[Okiewan]

Also, remove the primary cover.

Indeed. As you may have noticed, all the fasteners are out of the primary cover and I'm using the "oh crap, I forgot to drain it" method for dealing with rogue oil.

Here are the basic special tools needed to rebuild a 650 engine.

Awesome! Thanks for the list and photo. Of course I have exactly none of them. Someone ought to rent a kit like that :p

#1 looks like friction and drive plates stuck together?

 

[Okiewan]

A way clean up small parts, bolts, nuts, etc.? I have a vibratory cleaner for cleaning brass (reloading). Tossed some various parts in there, will see if it works at all, in a couple hours.

 

[truespode]

I have a vibratory

Paging High Lord Gomer. High Lord Gomer to the pink courtesy phone!

This is a great thread... love the detail from 89r... what DRN has always been about.

Ivan

 

[Okiewan]

LOL Ivan...

I'll tell ya this old man needs, some kind of bike table. This sitting/kneeling on cold concrete sucks. I need to come up with some kind of ghetto fix, not buying one.

 

[Ol'89r]

A way clean up small parts, bolts, nuts, etc.? I have a vibratory cleaner for cleaning brass (reloading). Tossed some various parts in there, will see if it works at all, in a couple hours.

If you have someone with a Vapor Blaster nearby, those work very good. They do an excellent job of restoring the cases to their original look. VERY IMPORTANT to get all of the fine glass out of the cases and orfices. Regular Bead Blasting will take the cad plating off and they will have to be replated. A sonic cleaner might work on the small stuff. I usually bead blast them and have them replated. You are correct about #1. It's a steel plate and a friction plate welded together. Keeps the clutch hub from turning while loosening/tightening the clutch hub nut. You can bolt them together too. You don't really need all of these tools. There are a few tricks to removing parts without them. I can guide you through when you get there.

 

[Okiewan]

I can guide you through when you get there.

You may live to regret that offer!
Seriously, I wouldn't attempt it otherwise.

 

[Ol'89r]

You may live to regret that offer!
Seriously, I wouldn't attempt it otherwise.

Haha. You have to remove the point cam assembly before you can remove the timing R/S cover. Without a point cam puller you can unscrew the point cam bolt and back it out about 3/4's of the way out of the hole and give it a sharp downwards tap with a small ball peen and it will pop off. It is located on a taper so you just need to tap it lightly.
The crankshaft pinion gear puller is pretty pricey. There is not enough room behind the gear to get a regular puller on it. If you don't have one you can remove the left side case leaving the crankshaft and camshafts intact in the right side case. (Remove the crank and cam nuts first. Cam nuts are reverse thread.} Block up the R/S case so that the crank is hanging downward vertically. Place a block of wood under the L/S of the crank and heat the case with a torch. The crank will usually drop out under it's own weight. Then, you can use most any gear puller to remove the pinion gear.
The L/S roller bearing removal tool is also very pricey.
If you have a welder, arc, tig or wire, you can run a bead of weld all the way around on the inside of the bearing race. The weld will shrink the race and the heat from the weld will heat the case and the bearing will drop out. If it doesn't drop right out, you can tap against the weld bead with a drift to drive it out. You should replace all of the bearings anyway. When removing and installing bearings and bushings in your cases, heat is your best friend. Kinda like Gomer only not so touchy feely.

 

[Ol'89r]

When heating your cases be careful not to get them too hot. Keep your torch moving around the whole case. I normally heat them until you can sizzle a drop of water on them.

 

[Okiewan]

 

[Ol'89r]

Looks good. Some scarfing on the inserts. How do the journals look? Build yourself a wooden table. About 2 foot high, 18" wide and 6 foot long. 2x6 sides and 4x4's for legs and a plywood top. You can use a wood ramp or regular loading ramp to get the bike on it. I worked on one like that for years. Or don't be such a tightwad and go buy a hydraulic lift from Harbor Freight for about 300 bucks.

 

[Okiewan]

Sorry... that gag didn't go well :) You were supposed to be shocked that I got that far so quickly, lol. That's a pic of some stuff from the parts boxes... Why he kept parts that were replaced, I have no idea (this rod/piston was from his TT).

 

[Ol'89r]

Actually I kinda figured they were old parts by the grey color and lack of oil. Your rods should be shiny. Those old rods can most likely be reused. OEM rods are getting hard to find. When you get the crank out, mark the rods and rod caps with a punch mark. There should already be one punch mark on the front of the rods and caps, (Direction of rotation). you need to add another punch mark next to the existing one on the left rod. One punch mark on the right side and two on the left side. This insures that you reinstall them the same way and side they came off of. There is another tool you will need to remove the sludge tube and screwed plug that holds it in the crank. I will go into detail on these later. I messaged Goober last night and asked him if his ears were burning? He's going to check in.

 

[Okiewan]

Cool, so I'll hold on to the rods !

Wasn't able to get anything done on it last night, hope to get a few hours in this evening. The timing case is off, I just used another/longer bolt for leverage on the advance. Primary cover will be off today. Seems to me the next logical step is to pull the clutch, but that's where I run into the first tool problem. I'll see if I can come up with something without breaking stuff.

 

[Ol'89r]

You will need the clutch hub puller to get the clutch off. Part # 61-7014. I can have one shipped to you if you want. Be sure to loosen all of the nuts before taking anything else apart. (Clutch nut, engine sprocket nut, pinion and cam gear nuts.) Cam gear nuts are reverse thead. May I suggest you download a parts book for your year model. The exploded view in the parts book will help you see how they go back together. You can download one at www.britishonly.com/technical.library. British only has their parts department closed for an extended vacation right now but you should still be able to access the tech library.
Without the puller you can take the clutch apart piece by piece but the last piece is very fragile and will break using a regular gear puller. Best to have the OEM puller.

 

[Okiewan]

Cool thanks. I’ve already got the parts books and shop manuals , and I *thnk* the clutch hub puller. I’ll let you know.

Cant get to that tech library.

Are you saying to loosen everything before pulling the motor? Ie; it’ll be easier with it bolted down?

 

[Ol'89r]

Yes, loosen everything first. I will see if I can find another link for the tech library. The puller in your pic (Center front) looks like the clutch hub puller.

 

[Okiewan]

Alright... that's as far as I can go without the clutch plate tool and the primary puller. Stator/rotor are off, clutch is apart but the basket is still there.

I'll probably pause here until after the holidays. There's plenty to keep me busy until then just cleaning stuff.

 

[Ol'89r]

You can make the clutch holding tool by welding or bolting a friction plate and a steel plate together. Or weld a handle on to the steel plate to hold on to. You will probably need to replace the friction plates anyway and a steel plate doesn't cost much. Be sure to surface your steel plates using a piece of emery sand paper and a flat surface. Like glass.