1986 CR125 oil leak?!

[TulsaDirtBikeGuy]

hey guys, sorry if this isnt the right place but this seemed appropriate to me. here goes.

i recently purchased an 86 cr125 and after tearing it down and changing the oil, i noticed some things.

1) the oil that came out of there was silver-ish. whats that mean? maybe correct color for some brand of oil? ive never seen oil that color.

2) when i was filling up the oil, i noticed after putting in abit, it started leaking out of a small hole underneath the water pump area (it is not a crack, just like a 3mm hole). ive been out of motorcycles for awhile but i cant for the life of me understand what that hole is for. anyone know? is it like an overflow or something, or am i lookin at a bad gasket internally in the engine?

thank in advance.

 

[2strokerfun]

Silvery oil is normal from clutch wear. Especially if they didn't change oil often.
If it is the hole just under and to the left of the water pump, (when looking at the right side of the engine), it is the oil check bolt hole. You'll need to get the correct bolt with crush washer, or you'll lose your oil and toast your transmission and clutch.
http://www.mrcycles.com/fiche_secti...ry=Motorcycles&make=Honda&year=1986&fveh=3226

 

[TulsaDirtBikeGuy]

ok, thanks, good to hear that the color is somewhat normal.

the hole is actually on the underside of the engine. not on the side of the engine near waterpump. im trying to find diagrams or anything so i can show it better. also gonna try to call some shops around here and see if they can tell me anything.


thanks


josh

 

[2strokerfun]

Hmmm. Are you talking about the weep hole on the bottom of the waterpump itself?? I'm guessing you are in Tulsa, also?

 

[TulsaDirtBikeGuy]

yes, i am in tulsa >< great place for riding (so i hear, cant wait to get out there).

and yes, sounds like a weep hole cause thats what it made me do >< so please tell me, what is that hole there for and why is my oil coming out of it? does this mean that i have a bad gasket internally or am i jumping to conclusions?

thanks

 

[TulsaDirtBikeGuy]

after your post, i looked it up on google, and this is what i found.

"there are two different seals on the water pump. the oil seal and the mechanical seal. the oil seal helps seal out the oil from the trans case. the mechanical seal helps seal the coolant from going into the trans case, and vise versa.
the weep hole is there to help diagnose if either seal is faulting. so if coolant is leaking from the weep hole. the mechanical seal is faulting or if the oil seal is leaking oil will drip from the weep hole.
hope this is of some help."

so that sounds like my problem. :yell: so i assume i can change both seals in the same place?! like i wont have to split the case or anything im hoping. :coocoo:

thanks again

 

[the_whitey87]

No splitting of cases needed here, remove kickstart, brake lever, coolant hoses from clutch cover, then remove the water pump cover(after draining water), water pump impeller(put bike in gear and hold rear brake to loosen), drain oil, remove clutch cover, remove governor assembly and slide out impeller shaft. Be sure to inspect the shaft where the seal rides as they are known to groove and simply replacing the seal will not fix your problem. There are also two bearings in there....give them a look too. Do yourself a huge favor and buy a repair manual for the bike.

Are you sure the oil that came out was not "milky" or white a opposed to silver? This would indicate water or coolant in your oil, also meaning you need new water pump seals however these bikes where common for corroding around the impeller and not being able to seal anymore...just make sure you check while you have it apart.

 

[TulsaDirtBikeGuy]

thanks much. seems like more work than i had hoped for =D but its a project bike so thats what i gotta do.

and yes the oil was silvery, not milky white or bubbly or anything. the area around the water pump is very corroded which concerns me that gaskets and seals might not be enough anyways. but ill give it all a shot.

thanks much for your response

 

[2strokerfun]

Lot of people clean the interior of the corroded water pump then seal with epoxy with great results. When you button it back up, be sure and use distilled water with your anti freeze as it helps prevent futher corrosion.
Very common problem on the 81-86 honda CRs.

 

[TulsaDirtBikeGuy]

you have any tips on any tools/cleaners to use to clean out the gross stuff and not hurt the good stuff?!

 

[TulsaDirtBikeGuy]

:cool: so just an update.

so i got everything off the bike. and i was really suprised at how good the interior of the engine looks (atleast what you can see by taking the clutch cover off). very very clean and looks great and no signs whatsoever of any water in there. the outer cover is very corroded but that seems to be the norm.

i ordered all the seals and gaskets and they come friday so hopefully ill be able to ride this weekend.

1 question. when i took the waterpump cover off, it had no seperator plate. and they are discontinued. i havent been able to find any place (even salvage yards) that carry that piece. (they will only sell the whole right side for 300$ ) :yell:

question is. does anyone know of where to get this part (other than a lucky ebay bid, im searching everyday) and also, it seemed to run fine before and mechanics said if it wasnt overheating then might be ok with it. any suggestions/opinions?!


thanks again :cool:

just wanted to say thanks to all the help.

 

[2strokerfun]

I'd recommend you post this at www.honda-elsinore.com
Lot of guys have been through the waterpump problem there and might have some good advise or a line on used parts.

 

[TulsaDirtBikeGuy]

man i appreciate the find. but that looks horrible. the guys at the dealership said if it wasnt leaking and wasnt overheating i might be able to get away with it?>! so i think i might try to do that, if i have to tear it back down so be it, ill just keep a close eye on the temp of the engine and any leaks.


btw, we should go riding together sometime when i get this thing up and running ><

 

[2strokerfun]

Good luck with that.
Do not trust people just because they work at a "dealership." Some of the people around here know what they are talking about with these older bikes, but a most of them are clueless.
Try Red Daley at Daley's Speed shop on Charles Page in west Tulsa. One of the best engine guys around. Might even have a part you need in his giant warehouse of used parts. I still find gaskets there for my bike.

 

[TulsaDirtBikeGuy]

so just an update.

got everything back together (new seals and such) and put just 1 gasket on the water pump cover. took it out riding and no leaks and no overheating (it was raining but still a good sign that it might be ok till i can find the proper parts).

runs pretty good but has some midrange hicups but nothing that shouldnt be solved.

thanks for all the help.

funny story. when i took the clutch cover off. whoever had "fixed" the seals before had put the oil seal on the OUTSIDE of the bearing and governor...so its no wonder it was leaking oil and amazing it didnt kill the engine in the first place. just goes to show. when you buy a used bike, you never ever know.

so now just some carb tuning and finding a new pipe for the bike (the one on there is all welded and dented, so wouldnt be surprised if that wasnt causing alot of the power problems).

btw, a riding riding for the first time in about 12 years + 125cc 2 stroke + a week of rain + really deep sand = very sore body ><

went riding at the dam (forget the name), it was rough and gross but still felt great to get back out there.

thanks again for all the help guys.

 

[TulsaDirtBikeGuy]

btw, took it out today and spent some time z00ming up and down my street and tuning carb. it runs 10x better now, almost no bog or anything now. so i think its pretty good now except i still need a pipe but yeah its starting to be a pretty quick bike for sure. fun stuff.

 

[2strokerfun]

Cool.
Keep your eye on it. And keep your eye out for the plate. Always nice to have peace of mind.
On used dirtbikes, I always pull the cylinder off first thing. Last one I bought had the piston in backwards!! Doh!

 

[TulsaDirtBikeGuy]

ok, so instead of starting a new thread, ill just keep this one alive since it is all related.

bout 2 weeks ago i took the bike out to the dam for the 2nd time, this time great weather. probably about 85 degrees and sunny.

everything started out great, made a couple 20 minute or so passes around the area (i tire out quickly having been out of the sport so long) and the bike was running STRONG. really really sick top end and whatnot, really was surprised to be honest.

on my last run after doing a couple fast passes on actual dirt (hard to find around the dam area) and doing some jumps, i noticed water coming out of the overflow pipe from the radiator. so i pulled over under a tree and let the bike cool down for like 15 or so minutes.

after it was cool to the touch i opened up the radiator and saw no water whatso ever. so i limped back to the truck and just called it a day. now let me tell you the circumstances.

1) this bike has no radiator shrouds.....im hoping/assuming this is the main problem and probably why i overheated.

2) when i got back, i drained the radiator and what was left, came out brownish/red. it was only hours old, so i know this means there is rust in there. i gave it a good flushing with water until it all came out crystal clear.

3) i then refilled the radiator and started the bike up and let it run, checked it, rinse and repeat. there seems to be no leak and the antifreeze is still very very green (so thats atleast a little good news).

so my question on this is. did i probably just overheat because i had no shrouds on (and running it hard), or could it actually be the fact that i dont have that spacer (still looking for a decent one).


2nd question

i have an issues with the idling and such.

1) i have the bike idling great, just perfect. and is VERY crisp throttle response, but when its idling, and i give it some gas, its very crisp, but then takes about 3-6 seconds to go back to its normal idling rpm.......what does this mean!?

3rd question.

1) if i want to get parts for the carb, do i get that from my local honda dealer, or do i have to order that online? i might wanna rebuild it (so gaskets) and mess with the jetting and stuff (so needles).

thanks in advance for any advice

 

[jralbritton]

my bike did the same thing almost, its a cr250 i had it rebuilt top and bottom, they forgot a seal and water leaked out of that same hole, faster when you reved on it. its prolly just one of those seals needs replacing, i wouldnt go all into takeing all that stuff apart.and he's right get a manual, it will tell you exactly how to do it. also i have never seen oil come out of a two stroke case that wasnt grey so that is very normal. thats why you want to change it every time you race. keep your clutch and bearings in tip top shape, i recommend maxima racing oils. now the other guy is right if the if the oil is milky looking you got water leaking into your oil and need to replace water pump gaskets... hope i helped