2000 kdx 220 losing power
- Thread starter Jesse_E
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- #27
i check the reeds last evening. they looked good. checked the petcock and gas only came out for about 2 seconds and stopped. did the same each time i turned it on. turned it to reserve and steady flow, was able to start the bike easily on reserve. guess there was enough to keep it running. so i rode it around a little last night. this morning i mixed up some new gas and filled the tank. rode it around for 5 minutes or so and then it just stopped on me. seized up i guess? kick start won't budge now. dohhh
reepicheep
Member
- Apr 3, 2009
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Well, you found your first problem, probably junk in the tank that is plugging the petcock.
Unfortunately you may have created a new problem, starving the bike for fuel repeatedly. Maybe that heated something up or starved something of lubrication, maybe it was just dumb luck that something else "let go" while you were debugging your first problem (it happens). Bikes with an issue, usually have "issues". And KDX's are like the terminators of the motorcycle world, they just won't die. So when they do finally die, the list of things wrong with them is probably DEEP and WIDE. (DAMHIK... I bought a $750 "it runs" craigslist bike that had... well... everything on it broken... though it did run!).
Sounds bad. At least we didn't waste our time telling you tips for splitting the cases! ;)
Unfortunately you may have created a new problem, starving the bike for fuel repeatedly. Maybe that heated something up or starved something of lubrication, maybe it was just dumb luck that something else "let go" while you were debugging your first problem (it happens). Bikes with an issue, usually have "issues". And KDX's are like the terminators of the motorcycle world, they just won't die. So when they do finally die, the list of things wrong with them is probably DEEP and WIDE. (DAMHIK... I bought a $750 "it runs" craigslist bike that had... well... everything on it broken... though it did run!).
Sounds bad. At least we didn't waste our time telling you tips for splitting the cases! ;)
reepicheep
Member
- Apr 3, 2009
- 670
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I had to mix and match.
I had Eric Gorr do my bore, port, and replate. Premium job, premium price. You could probably get by $100 to $200 cheaper with a steel sleeve, and maybe something other then a forged Weisco. If I was going cheap, I'd go cheap on the sleeve but not on the piston.
Dennis Kirk had some decent kits for gaskets / bearings / seals. I sourced a lot of pieces from my local bearing shop by bringing the old ones in. I probably saved some moeny over the kits, but probably not much.
A few parts had to come directly from Kawaski, so I used my local dealer, who I do try and support when I can. Service Honda is a sponsor here, so throwing them some business seems only appropriate as well.
Also check your rear suspension linkage (which is also probably shot). lift the rear and rear wheel of the bike off the ground, and see if it "clunks". And hopefully your rear shock still has good chrome plating on the shaft, and the seals aren't leaking.
I had Eric Gorr do my bore, port, and replate. Premium job, premium price. You could probably get by $100 to $200 cheaper with a steel sleeve, and maybe something other then a forged Weisco. If I was going cheap, I'd go cheap on the sleeve but not on the piston.
Dennis Kirk had some decent kits for gaskets / bearings / seals. I sourced a lot of pieces from my local bearing shop by bringing the old ones in. I probably saved some moeny over the kits, but probably not much.
A few parts had to come directly from Kawaski, so I used my local dealer, who I do try and support when I can. Service Honda is a sponsor here, so throwing them some business seems only appropriate as well.
Also check your rear suspension linkage (which is also probably shot). lift the rear and rear wheel of the bike off the ground, and see if it "clunks". And hopefully your rear shock still has good chrome plating on the shaft, and the seals aren't leaking.
You're going to have to tear it down and get a damage report before pricing repairs. No use pricing things you might not need. Mine came out something like this...
Main bearings and seals $50
cylinder re-plate $200 (that includes some welding that was needed)
rod kit $90
crank rebuild labor $50
I scored a NOS wiseco piston kit for $75 on ebay
Full gasket set $50
Some other misc tranny bearings $50 (figured I should replace all the bearings since I was in there anyway)
Not bad for a total rebuild, eh? All quality parts, and I was very happy with the re-plate from langcourt, and whoever my guy at the shop had rebuild the crank.
You definitely have to use a wiseco piston in that 220, not the stock cast job. Avoid sleeving, you want to have the cylinder repaired properly and re-plated. Price is about the same, and it will last a WHOLE lot longer.
It's possible you don't even need a re-plate though. Depending on what seized, the cylinder might be fine.
Main bearings and seals $50
cylinder re-plate $200 (that includes some welding that was needed)
rod kit $90
crank rebuild labor $50
I scored a NOS wiseco piston kit for $75 on ebay
Full gasket set $50
Some other misc tranny bearings $50 (figured I should replace all the bearings since I was in there anyway)
Not bad for a total rebuild, eh? All quality parts, and I was very happy with the re-plate from langcourt, and whoever my guy at the shop had rebuild the crank.
You definitely have to use a wiseco piston in that 220, not the stock cast job. Avoid sleeving, you want to have the cylinder repaired properly and re-plated. Price is about the same, and it will last a WHOLE lot longer.
It's possible you don't even need a re-plate though. Depending on what seized, the cylinder might be fine.
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reepicheep
Member
- Apr 3, 2009
- 670
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Eric Gorr did my rebore (225 mo-betta-everywhere port), which was the premium deal. Nicksil plating, custom porting, cleaning, etc. It came back with the KIPS assembly already installed, ready to bolt in and torque to spec. That also included a Weisco forged piston, rings, and small end rod bearing. I think it was about $500 at the end of the day. Not the cheap route for sure, but nicely sorted, and all matched. And if you price the pieces, you aren't taking *that* much off it.
On the other hand, a steel sleeve is a nice solution as well, and probably a lot cheaper.
My crank and rod were about the only parts of my bike that didn't have a problem... they were all well in spec.
On the other hand, a steel sleeve is a nice solution as well, and probably a lot cheaper.
My crank and rod were about the only parts of my bike that didn't have a problem... they were all well in spec.
Pull the jug off and see if it survived without getting scored up. Head looks ok. I'm guessing you lost a piston skirt. The whole thing about 220 stock pistons grenading is not a myth, as you can see. Luckily the cylinder wall is much harder than the piston, so there are times when the cylinder survives. This may or may not be one of those times though.
You will almost definitely want to split the cases and replace the main bearings. It's almost impossible to get all those pieces of piston out of the crankcase.
You will almost definitely want to split the cases and replace the main bearings. It's almost impossible to get all those pieces of piston out of the crankcase.
You need to remove the nut that connects it. There is a flat spot on the rod that comes out of the clutch cover, make sure you support this securely when removing the nut or else you will break the pin that sits in the governor inside the RH engine cover. Once that gear is removed from the top of the rod, remove the 4 nuts holding the jug to the cases, and it will lift right off. FYI that nut is LH thread.
BTW, was there a head gasket in there??? Looks like someone tried to seal it up with silicone or something???
BTW, was there a head gasket in there??? Looks like someone tried to seal it up with silicone or something???
- Thread starter
- #40
i saw that on cyclepedia was just checking if it was necessary. i guess tomorrow i'll get the whole engine out of the frame anyway then get the jug off.
no i didnt see a gasket in there. yeah it seems like there is some silicon type stuff inbetween.
i have a friend asking his other riding buddies to see if they have a case splitter to borrow. do you think its best to wait to split it till i have my bearings and seals?
no i didnt see a gasket in there. yeah it seems like there is some silicon type stuff inbetween.
i have a friend asking his other riding buddies to see if they have a case splitter to borrow. do you think its best to wait to split it till i have my bearings and seals?
reepicheep
Member
- Apr 3, 2009
- 670
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No, better to split early. You will likely end up with other parts you need to order.
You can check the crank before you split the cases, at least check the tolerance between the rod and crank. The manual gives you the service limits.
You can check the crank before you split the cases, at least check the tolerance between the rod and crank. The manual gives you the service limits.
reepicheep said:
yeah like those case alignment pins that always seem to wonder off but seem to show up after you have bought new ones.. the crank keys seem to hide out with them too :bang:
I'm on my 8th rebuild (kx125) and all seems to be going really good ordered mains/seals on tuesday and on wednesday had the bottom back together...if only I could find an 8'x8'x8' box I'd ship the cylinder off to Eric
- Thread starter
- #44
there was a gasket on top of the jug. it was just covered in that silver looking sealant that it blended in with the engine casing. only got to work on it a little this morning had a bunch of stuff to do. just the bottom motor mount and exhaust left to disconnect to pull it out of the frame. going to be away for the weekend so i'll finish that on monday. feeling more confident in doing the bottom end myself then after looking at steps more
Yeah don't worry about doing the bottom end. The hardest part is in the actual commitment. Once you've made the decision, the work is cake. I have some good tips for you when you get to that point, especially on re-assembly. Go ahead and get your flywheel puller ordered, and fashion up some sort of case splitter, or buy a tool specific to the task.
reepicheep
Member
- Apr 3, 2009
- 670
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I think I just used a flywheel puller / steering wheel puller, though I think I had to weld up some bolts for it...
- Thread starter
- #50
i forgot to update this a while ago
i ended up taking the motor to a shop my buddy had work done on his kdx before. they did top end and pressure tested it and found that there was a crack in the case halfway down from where the exhaust exits. they said it was from a piece of piston skirt being pushed against the case. so they split the case and had the crack welded and a piece inside welded. so i had them replace the crank seals while it was apart. final bill came out to be $400. so not to bad and has been running great.
i ended up taking the motor to a shop my buddy had work done on his kdx before. they did top end and pressure tested it and found that there was a crack in the case halfway down from where the exhaust exits. they said it was from a piece of piston skirt being pushed against the case. so they split the case and had the crack welded and a piece inside welded. so i had them replace the crank seals while it was apart. final bill came out to be $400. so not to bad and has been running great.
