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4--Strokes Coming?

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#1
Are we going to see some four stroke trial bikes for 2004?

How about a Honda four stroke trials bike? Or would that be a Montesa/Honda four stroke?

And will they be engineered to be relatively light motors as are the new Japanese MX four stroke motors?
 

Moteaux

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#2
I can't find the link here at work, but I read about some future four stroke trials bikes. I did find this link http://www.trials.co.uk/bikes/prototypes/protobikes.html . It was interesting to me that the guy transformed his 2 stroke into a four stroke. The little 125 featured is pretty sweet looking too.

I will keep looking to see if I can find the link that I saw at home last night.

Randy
 
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#3
THAT IS SWEET!! even though I am a die hard 2 stroker I realize it is enevitable. but I think it will be 10 years before a "cometitive" 4 stroke machine will be used by a top rider. But definately looks like a good start for someone looking for an intro level trials bike that is low maintenance.
 
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#5
Yes, Sweet.

Tank looks like it might have some capacity on the 125. That black thing on the rear fender is called a seat. :cool:

Wonder why they didn't route the head pipe up higher? Where's the 250?
 
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Patman

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#6
Expect most of the top trial riders to be on a 4T well before 10 years! It's getting mandated in Europe so I'd say it's close to 3 years tops. Montesa made some noise about a '04 as did Scorpa but I think '05 is more realistic. What a concidence they are both tied to deep pockets that have already developed good 4T off-road programs. I suspect it will not be easy for Beta, Sherco & to a lesser extent GasGas.
 

Moteaux

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#7
Patman,

When I was looking for the 4 stroke link earlier today, I think I read something about our friends across the pond having to ride 4-Ts in 2005. Have you heard anything about that?
 

Patman

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#8
Yup, that's what I was referring to.
 
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#9
Looks like the ttr 125 motor to me I hope the power delivery is no the same though (slow) and the only real problem i see right now is that header pipe getting masshed closed on the rocks. i still think it will need a lot of developement to have that quick power like the shercos and betas, where i ride the scorpa competion model is not very popular. Our club is primarily GG then Shercos then TY250/350 monos then Betas then RLs and a few TL125s. But I salute their efforts for pushing the envelope. someone has to do it.
 

wayneg

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#10
I think that the Scorpa is really aiming at the Cluman/Sportsman market with the 125, and don't seriously think that this bike would really suit 10' splatters. Apparently there is a 180cc kit going to be available for the Scorpa which could possibly put the machine into the Intermediate class. So its going to take a fair bit of development before we see the four strokes capable of the sorts of things that the two strokes are currently capable of.

I can see the point of the little four strokes for the schoolboy classes such as they have in the UK (8 to 14 years old), and also that these bikes would have enough performance for a rider at my level, but think that they need to go big with capacity for the more skilled riders before they would sell in any numbers.
 

Patman

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#12
I believe that when the F.I.M. met in 2002 they made the following decisions:

"Classes for Trial World Championship and FIM Junior Cup

As from 1.1.2004: 125cc class, 16-18 years old with driving licence, 4 stroke up to 125cc, minimum weight 70 kg. Open Class, over 18 years old with driving licence, 2 stoke up to 250cc and 4 stroke up to 450cc, minimum weight 75 kg.

Open class as from 1.1.2005: only 4-stroke up to 450 cc, minimum weight 75 kg."


I have not seen any reversal of the decision but that does not mean it has not occured.
 
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#13
really how many people are going to buy these things right off the bat? I am saying that it is going to take a while for thumper trials bike to be accepted buy the general public. especially out here in the boone-doks hell most people here still have 2 stroke deisel engines in there tractors..lol
 

JTT

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#14
Originally posted by Patman
I suspect it will not be easy for Beta, Sherco & to a lesser extent GasGas.
Have you seen the newly released Sherco 450 4S Enduro? Step one complete. Of course, GasGas already has a 4S enduro too.

It will be interesting to see the technology that comes with this new 4S rule. The little Scorpa is cute, but I agree with Wayne, can't see it launching those big steps at a World round. :eek:

There is also a rumour that GasGas is going to use the bottom end of the present Pros with an electrically valved 4S top end.

You also have to wonder just how much R&D money that the likes of Honda and Yamaha are going to put into developing a motor that will likely be very narrow application...maybe lots, maybe just reworked TTR and XR engines :think:

Think I'll be holding onto my 2S for a while yet, but the new 4S should be interesting at least.
 

Patman

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#15
I don't doubt that the smaller companies can do it and are even looking to off-road products in their current lineup but like you point out the development dollars could be huge and to Honda & Yamaha a few million is a much small percentage of their bottom line. Especially when HRC has saved dollars for several years by tweaking the current 315R. I have a sneakin suspicion that Honda will base theirs off the CRF250R but might even scale the head back to a 2 valve design to save precious space? Yamaha is so enamored with multi valves I don't even what to guess what they might do. There has been some successful development of 4T's based on the Monty's engine that look interesting so who knows, not me for sure. All I do know is that the top riders in the world will be on 4 strokes in '05 unless a revision is adopted which I thought is what JunkMan was referring to originally. I suspect it would be 2007 before they really catch on in the states with the local level riders.