99 exc 200

[Brains]

99 ecx 200
Std PDS rear and mod 45 Zooks front.

1st KTM and very fustrated.

My question is will this bikes suspension ever be as good as the my KDX's, RMX or YZ?

The suspension is as hard as a rock, on the Zooks I have welded up the old comp slot and redrilled, 2w @ 145mm, comp clicker all the way out. Better but not great.

On the WP, sag @ 110mm and comp clicker all the way out.
Rebound in both cases is 1/2 way.

I can't sit in a bumpy corner the bike will throw me off! It's terible on rocky rooty trails.I have never had such hassels with any other bike. I got back on to The YZ 250 and the suspension is alot plusher......and this is a MX bike?

Is this the way KTM's are and I should just live with it (in which case I will sell it) or is there light at the end of the tunnel?

Any advice or mods much appreciated.

 

[marcusgunby]

One thing to help is to get a softer seat foam-the std one makes the stiff suspension feel even worse.As to the pds i couldnt get it right but many other have had theirs done and are happy.

 

[KTM-Lew]

The rear shock comp adjuster is backwards on these. In is softer-out is stiffer. I run my 01 400 (stock shock) at 4 turns out for rocks, max 7 out for fast stuff.

I have no experience with the zook's......have seen people using 2.5 weight in comp & 7 weight in rebound and different height in each leg....weird! Be sure you have the correct springs for your weight.

 

[MikeS]

Did you drill the zookes with more than 1 hole?

Set the Compression leg at 145mm oil and the Rebound at 165. They should soften way up.

I use 4.0 springs up front for a 160lb rider. 5wt comp, 143mm, 2 clicks from full soft; Compression leg is set to 163,10wt oil, mid way on clicker.

These are on a TM 125 but are the same fork.

The raer shock may need service as Marcus said the are far from perfect but the can be made better than stock. 110 sag may be too much.

 

[WoodsRider]

On the 'zokes, how much preload is on the springs? I had a terrible time with mine until I reduced the spring preload to 4mm.

 

[MikeS]

Pre load is between 6-8mm total both sides. Forgot about that

 

[Brains]

Thanks to all

This preload on the forks have got me going. I'm not sure what is in there, but it is alot more than 8mm. More like 40mm

MikeS - what do you meam by "total both sides"

The holes drilled started before the old slot and went up about 100mm higher. There is a file online with the mod. If you want a link no problem.

How hard is it to strip the PDS and what can be done to give me less compression?

Sorry MikeS you lost me here :-

"Set the Compression leg at 145mm oil and the Rebound at 165. They should soften way up.

I use 4.0 springs up front for a 160lb rider. 5wt comp, 143mm, 2 clicks from full soft; Compression leg is set to 163,10wt oil, mid way on clicker."

 

[WoodsRider]

Originally posted by Brains
This preload on the forks have got me going. I'm not sure what is in there, but it is alot more than 8mm. More like 40mm

Thus the reason why you feel every little jolt. You probably have a difficult time keeping it going straight in rough terrain too. I talked to several different tuners who all claim to have the magic touch for 'zokes (short of chucking the internals for a set of Kayaba internals, big $'s). I heard pre-load specs from 0 to 10mm. I shot for 5mm, but ended up with 4mm. Big improvement in compliance.

 

[marcusgunby]

Dont consider servicing the pds unless you have a fully kitted machine shop.

 

[Brains]

I going to pull those preloads out tonight and measure them.

WoodsRider, whats your weight?

I used to pull my KDX's shocks apart and service, but was worried that that PDS is a completely different thing and was going to land up in a mess.

 

[Brains]

I forgot to metion that these are the conventional forks, not up side down. Just so there is no confusion.
Thanks

 

[WoodsRider]

Full gear and tool pack I'm probably 220 to 225. Using .44 kg/mm springs up front. You want to adjust the spring preload to acheive the correct free sag and race sag measurements on the forks. I think it's something like 30±10mm free and 50±10mm race. I'll have to confirm if those are the actual numbers though.

 

[Brains]

Just out of the garage and this is what I found.

Front spring 5mm dia
Front preload 57mm
Rear spring 13mm dia
I took the spring off the shock to see what the comp. was like.
I had to put my entire weight onto it before it began to move very slowy, rebound came up looking OK.

This preload story seems way out compared to your specs.
Can anyone tell what springs those are knowing only the dia?
At 70 kg - about 155lb with kit what should I aim at for the front preload?
I looked in my Zooks pdf file and found 0 about preload settings.

Woods rider - I rode a 2000 200 GG a while back and those forks seemed very plush, granted I was'nt on the bike long enough to make a great comparsion.

Thanks for the on going help

 

[WoodsRider]

In order to find out the spring rating you'll need to have them measured by a shop that has the right equipment. Most suspension company websites have an online spring rate calculator that will tell you what rate of spring you should be using. Once you've selected the correct spring rate you can try different spacers to change the preload. I made my own spacers from PVC pipe. Changing the spacers is a very simple task. Like I said before most people I spoke with recommended between 0 and 10mm of preload, but that doesn't mean you can't try more preload.

 

[Brains]

Is it possiable to find out or who would know what the difference is between the 45 Zooks on the KTM and the GG?

 

[KTM-Lew]

If the spacer is 57mm long that doesn't give you 57mm pre-load. Is that what you measured?
You must measure from the spring to the cap.....Leave the pre-load spacers out and install the cap into the tube.....then pull the tube up and measure from the seal/dust cover to the top....push the tube down until you feel the spring touch the cap....measure again. Now you have the length the spacer needs to be to have 0 pre-load. Compare this measurement to the old spacer.

You will probably have to get the springs tested as mentioned above.

 

[WoodsRider]

My spacers are around 20mm or so in length. Stock my 'zokes had different (softer) springs that were shorter and used spacers about 60mm long. I don't believe that stock, there is any difference, internally, between GG an KTM 'zokes.

 

[KTM-Lew]

WoodsRider,
Sounds like he has the stock springs? Does anyone know what rate they were? .38? For his weight that should be close for rocks.

 

[Brains]

Lew
I measured as you asked and this would mean that I would need a spacer of 138mm, current one is 57mm. I thought that the current one would be to long, now I'm lost?

 

[KTM-Lew]

I'm not sure what we missed? :think:

With one fork assembled completely ready to install with stock spacer measure length of exposed tube. Remove pre-load spacer from other fork and reassemble like you were going to install them and compare length of forks side by side. The difference will be about what you need for a pre-load spacer to achieve 0 pre-load, plus a few mm for the top-out spring I suppose, but this should work.

Be sure to check for alignment issues as suggested on ktmtalk. With the right springs and good bushings/alignment these forks were about the best rock forks going when set-up correctly. From what I have seen they aren't great at having a wide range of use. Either good at rocks or good at faster stuff. Tough to get both.

Hope this is easier to understand? :thumb:
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Be sure you are adjusting your rear-shock compression correctly. The 99 shock wasn't very good in rocks and chop. The clicker is backwards from all other brands. All the way out is stiffer--in is softer. If you have the shock too stiff it will load the forks too heavily.

 

[russ17]

Originally posted by MikeS
Did you drill the zookes with more than 1 hole?

Set the Compression leg at 145mm oil and the Rebound at 165. They should soften way up.

I use 4.0 springs up front for a 160lb rider. 5wt comp, 143mm, 2 clicks from full soft; Compression leg is set to 163,10wt oil, mid way on clicker.

These are on a TM 125 but are the same fork.

The raer shock may need service as Marcus said the are far from perfect but the can be made better than stock. 110 sag may be too much.

I have to say I am a little confused on this one you say 5wt.comp then you say 10wt. comp is the 5wt the rebound leg and the 10wt the compression leg. I just got a set of these in for service and on the rebound leg there seems like ther is no noticeable difference in feel from full hard to full soft. they have the mod just seems awful fast. ktm-lew first time with these type of zookes should there be a noticeable difference from full soft to full hard on these' just talking on the rebound leg

 

[Brains]

Lew
Sorry I did'nt mean you to re type the above, what I ment was that I expected to find a spacer that was to long considering my problem with the bike.

Yup, yup theres light somewhere in this tunnel - to get 0 preload I had to add 81mm of spacer to the original one of 54mm, in other words there was 81mm of free air/travel in the tubes. These forks have never been opened? Both springs measure the same, so I doubt that they have colapsed.

After adding the new spacers, the tubes are sitting right up thats when I tried to push down................hell don't know how I rode this bike.......the bushes are so worn that I can get the tube to do a complete lock on the way down.

Getting there
Thanks