AMA Board votes down "Class Displacement"

[CagivaWMX]

We're on for a PitPassRadio show this Tuesday at 8PM CST. Sean Hilbert from Cobra and Steve Johnson from Wiseco will join me and the PPR crew. It will be broadcast on Clear Channel radio staions and the PPR web site, then stored for download in the archives.
I promise it will be a show worth listening too, and if any AMA board members are reading this, there will be lots good ideas!

 

[Rim-K]

Hi everyone I'm a french rider and I wanted to see whether or not american riders will now race again on 2 strokes thanks to the new rule. In fact, 2 strokes are always well sold in Europe even if pro riders in MX2 and MX1 world championship ride 4 strokes bikes. We do not have by now the new equivalence (144 cc) in France but I'm waiting for it! When I've seen this new rule for all the amateur class in USA, I was very happy of it and now I'm hopping american riders will buy 2 strokes motos again... You know that you represent the "biggest" market (sorry for my english!) and the manufacturers make motos in first for you so if we want to continue racing on 2 strokes in europe you have to buy a lot of 2 strokes too!!
For me, I have tried 2 strokes and 4 strokes and I really prefer 2 strokes like, I think, the majority of french riders do (but the "wrong" equivalence push top rider on 4T to be competitive). But by now in the amateur class in france, many riders returns on 2 strokes because they prefer riding this bikes, really more fun, with a so beautifull sound, but they are also competitive in mx and sx, easy to maintain, less expensive than four strokes... What's more, the 4T did not bring anything interesting in motocross. Conversely, many tracks are closing because of noise and that's becoming a bid problem and the bikes are more expensive. And don't you think a good rider is much more beautifull to see riding on a 2 strokes ??? The sound is inimitable and the agressive riding of a 2 strokes give a better spectacle than a race of thumpers... don't you think?? It's time to return on real motocross!! :cool:

 

[MXobssesed4]

Hi everyone I'm a french rider and I wanted to see whether or not american riders will now race again on 2 strokes thanks to the new rule. In fact, 2 strokes are always well sold in Europe even if pro riders in MX2 and MX1 world championship ride 4 strokes bikes. We do not have by now the new equivalence (144 cc) in France but I'm waiting for it! When I've seen this new rule for all the amateur class in USA, I was very happy of it and now I'm hopping american riders will buy 2 strokes motos again... You know that you represent the "biggest" market (sorry for my english!) and the manufacturers make motos in first for you so if we want to continue racing on 2 strokes in europe you have to buy a lot of 2 strokes too!!
For me, I have tried 2 strokes and 4 strokes and I really prefer 2 strokes like, I think, the majority of french riders do (but the "wrong" equivalence push top rider on 4T to be competitive). But by now in the amateur class in france, many riders returns on 2 strokes because they prefer riding this bikes, really more fun, with a so beautifull sound, but they are also competitive in mx and sx, easy to maintain, less expensive than four strokes... What's more, the 4T did not bring anything interesting in motocross. Conversely, many tracks are closing because of noise and that's becoming a bid problem and the bikes are more expensive. And don't you think a good rider is much more beautifull to see riding on a 2 strokes ??? The sound is inimitable and the agressive riding of a 2 strokes give a better spectacle than a race of thumpers... don't you think?? It's time to return on real motocross!! :cool:

I do agree about the spectacle of two strokes, personally i think i takes a better rider to go fast on a two stroke than a thumper. but the rule is staying the same, 4 strokes are in, two strokes are out, i'll just have to accept it when i move up and race the 250cc(450) class.

 

[oldguy]

(sorry for my english!) :cool:

No need to apologize many of our members could learn from you.
Unfortunately the AMA has decided they are going to keep the current classes and watch as the 2 strokes die :bang: . I agree that one of the biggest things I miss at the tracks is the sound of crisply jetted 2 strokes tearing it up. I am also sorry to hear you are also losing riding areas because of noise just as we are- this is something universal that needs attention.

You made great points about the 2stroke over the 4 strokes and I agree with all of them. My son was fast on a 2stroke but when he jumped to a 4 stroke in order to stay in the game with other riders his speed increased but his skill level dropped somewhat. If the rule went through I was looking forward to him racing a 125 and 250 2 stroke this summer.

 

[HajiWasAPunk]

I'll say one thing, whatever they're going to do they (AMA) and the manufacturers need to get on the same page. How can they be that close to make a rule change that would bring back the 125 (I know it's not dead yet but you get my drift) while the makers are dropping them from production?

I'm sure some of you who've been around the sport for years could elaborate, but I've yet to see the benefit of the AMA in the last 12 months?

 

[Moose]

I'll say one thing, whatever they're going to do they (AMA) and the manufacturers need to get on the same page

The manufacturers don't manufacture for just one association. Hence the reason why they made the CRF150R not making a CRF125R.

 

[HajiWasAPunk]

The manufacturers don't manufacture for just one association. Hence the reason why they made the CRF150R not making a CRF125R.

They made the 150 and 150 and not a 125 because 125 wouldn't have been enough, I believe. This is a perfect example of the problem I'm talking about. Are you saying the AMA told them to make a 125F?

And if they're making race bikes and not even talking to the biggest association in the sport (I'm sure there's something in Europe they should work with too) then something is wrong, either with the AMA or the MFGs.

 

[Moose]

No the AMA did not tell them. But in RacerX they gave an explanation as to why they didn't design a bike that already fit into a certain class in the AMA.

They made the 150R to fit FIM regulations.

 

[HajiWasAPunk]

No the AMA did not tell them. But in RacerX they gave an explanation as to why they didn't design a bike that already fit into a certain class in the AMA.

They made the 150R to fit FIM regulations.

Do you know what the FIM regulations are? Will they allow this bike to ride in an 85 class?

 

[Moose]

Let me get back to you on that tomorrow. THis is all based on what I've read in RacerX, and the issue is still at school. I'm sure you could find that answer on the internet though.

 

[HajiWasAPunk]

Let me get back to you on that tomorrow. THis is all based on what I've read in RacerX, and the issue is still at school. I'm sure you could find that answer on the internet though.

I thought so too but in checking their website (FIM) in the Junior class rules I didn't see it (just a quick skim though, maybe it's there).

In any event, I don't see how the top 3-5 organizations and aponsors of the top events don't get together with the mfgs at all?

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

Honda

There I said it! My opinion,the biggest and best bike company is the heart and soul behind this whole mess! FIM,AMA (board),and the other japanese 3 are all changing dirtbikes to fit their pleasure.

 

[cancanman]

screw racing. i can't afford to be competitive any more.

 

[Micahdawg]

One of the rules that just recently passed for the AMA is to allow the 150F to compete in the Supermini class (85's). However, 85's can now be pumped up to 112 cc's. And the 125cc dominated Schoolboy class is now allowing the 150F to compete.

As for how the FIM/AMA deal with manufacturers...I don't know. I would highly doubt that manufacturers just crank out bikes with the hopes that they might be competitive. Just look at KTM producing the 144 two stroke. They did this immediately after catching wind of the big bore rule allowing 125's up to 144 cc displacement. And like a hammer, the AMA comes down on them with a clarification stating that you can't race a "production" 144. Another vote against the 2 stroke.

Then you have Honda producing the 150F..with no real class for it (though they had a good idea what class it would belong in). This wasn't even a response to any hint of a rule, but just another thumper they cranked out since the iron was hot. And they get rewarded with rule revisions allowing competition in a couple classes. Another vote for the 4 stroke.

I don't really care though.....I know what I like (2 stroke) and all the big four are doing is pushing me over to Europe. I just hope the collective backlash is strong enough that it stings.

Moral of the story...continue to produce innovative new bikes for us. But don't decide for us that this is what we want.

Micah

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

Ktm

Yep! In 3 to 5 years when the honda pocket on the ama board sees Europe and Asia pumping out allot of 2 strokes ,and members still buying them, I'd like to hand him some tp to wipe them brown marks off his face!

 

[XRpredator]

Again, we know that the FIM is allowing 150cc 4-strokes in the mini class against the 80's, right? I believe they also passed a rule allowing 144 2-strokes in the MX2 class.

The U.S. might be the biggest market for dirt bikes, but we're not the only one.

 

[Rim-K]

A new good news for the two strokes, the belgium federation of motocross has voted the equivalence "144 2T against 250 4T" without mentioning any question of stock bike or obligation of using a kit. I'm hoping the france federation and the FIM will follow this new step forward. I know that a new official KTM rider, Joel Roelants, will try to win the "Europe 125" championship on a 144 SX, so maybe the rule has change but I've not seen it on the FIM website.
Maybe we will see a stock bike of 144 CC next year hoping the AMA rule changes...
The factory KTM SX125 was a missile in MX2 which has concurrenced Ben Townley's 250f in 2004 in the hands of Tyla Rattray !
So I'm sure that a 144 will be competitive against 250f. There is not a huge developpement to realize for big improvement.
We want to ride on competitive 2T but how to show it to the federations?? They don't care?? Maybe they don't want us to return on 2 strokes bikes : they have always take decisions to kill 2 strokes like someone said before...

 

[wardy]

The U.S. might be the biggest market for dirt bikes, but we're not the only one.

Exactly pred, and that is why it is insane not to offer more options and more choices. a 144 will not be heads up competition with any 250f, but heck a 200 which ktm makes today would be fine? a 300 that ktm makes would be pretty close to a 450? not sure on that one. but this whole deal isn't to force companies to do anything, only to make what we have today fair.

many of us think that since we are one of the biggest, that they will build it, dragging and kicking all the way to the bank.

what is better less off road riders on more expensive machinery, or more on all types of macnines?

LOL but you know what opinions are like !

wardy

 

[XRpredator]

LOL but you know what opinions are like!

yes. They are like cowboy hats.

 

[Micahdawg]

stylish?

 

[VintageDirt]

yes. They are like cowboy hats.

If you don't wear it correctly, you look gay?

 

[booneyscb]

200 ktm would dominate 250 four strokes. weighs 20 lbs. less and makes good tractable power with about 4 more horsepower.

 

[VintageDirt]

200 ktm would dominate 250 four strokes. weighs 20 lbs. less and makes good tractable power with about 4 more horsepower.

If not for their goofy linkless suspenders. :whoa:
Hey now, you know I'm just kidding. :nener: