AMA's Bill Dart on Thumper pipes; must read

[Bluethumper]

well heres my 2 cents....

I own one off those loud 4-strokes. a WR400 with the stock exhuast from the factory and the baffle in it, I might as well have bought an XR. when I removed the baffle it is loud!!! but the performance increases are huge. so I bought an FMF power core 4 exhaust and it is a little quieter but the performance did not change. IMO I wasted $200.00 buying that exhaust unless I consider the wieght lose. If I pipe manufacturer made a pipe that was quiet and held up the there claims of performance I would buy that pipe.

As for compromising with the enviromentalist. we are and will be the only ones meeting in the middle. the more we compromise the more they demand!!! they want wilderness areas that no one can use... we gave it to them, now they want more!!! they want those smoking 2-strokes off of public land... thats is coming soon. we design a 4-strokes that can perform on a track as well as a 2-stroke.. now they are to loud. where will it end!!!! I can see me now rolling out to the desert to bang some whoops on my electric powered mini-bike. and the enviromentalist complianing about how much natural resources it takes to charge the battery on my bike!!!

In closing I'm with 380. I'll roll past thoise signs if they start posting them in my riding areas. and blow by johny and his Db meter if my bike is to loud!

 

[Jay-R]

The environmental extremists will never be happy until most of the US is in forest lands where no one can set foot. And they are able to use our tax money to do it. I often wonder why the public abides by these eco-nuts' views. Obviously, most of the general public who enjoy the outdoors through various activities, do not agree with the extremists. Since they take away their rights too. But it is easy for the extremists to gain support from people living in the cities who rarely venture into the wilderness.

I agree with the AMA sound limit, only because I believe that it will force aftermarket pipe manufacturers to make quieter pipes. This may in turn gain us some support from the people who are sitting on the fence about the dirt bike issue. I do not feel that we are compromising with the extremists, but we are trying to gain support of John Q. Public who has nothing against dirtbikes, except the noise.

 

[wayneo426]

Originally posted by Jay-R
But it is easy for the extremists to gain support from people living in the cities who rarely venture into the wilderness.

Well spoken. There are thousands of inner city folk who contribute to these eco-nazis while not even knowing the scope of these org's activities. Scary to think they get millions by just sending out stickers upon receipt of donations.

 

[LJW]

END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT

Check out:http://www.dnr.state.mi.us/ParkDetail.asp?LinkID=110&sec=camp&ParkID=63&Mode=5554

I do not own a bike that will pass this test, and I'll bet most of you don't either.

Roll past the signs and blow by John Law's meter? Bold talk.

 

[ballistic]

big gun

I run a BigGun Quiet series on my DRZ400e. It is 6 lbs lighter than stock, and has decent performance boost for a pipe only a little louder than the super quiet stocker. Its around 94db apparently. I also have the race insert for my BigGun. TOO LOUD!! I hate it, and my kids hate it. But lets put it this way: I wear earplugs all the time when I ride, quiet or no quiet pipe. I feel less fatigued and all around better than not using. Those of you who have discovered the "secret" of earplugs know what I'm talking about. Those of you who think thats nerdy must also think sidepipes on a Gremlin is cool. Just kidding, but you dont know what your missing.

Come on you pipe maker guys, put your RD to work.
Heres a free idea: stick a huge whistle insert thing into end of pipe. It converts the low frequency THUMP (low frq travels far) into a high whistle note :D
Heres another: never mind a vortip, stick a 36 inch piece of 1 inch rubber hose on the end of pipe. Let that sucker flop down and blast the noise into the ground:confused:

 

[bud]

-

 

[Rodzilla]

Originally posted by Jay-R
The environmental extremists will never be happy until most of the US is in forest lands where no one can set foot. And they are able to use our tax money to do it. I often wonder why the public abides by these eco-nuts' views.

To be honest I think a LARGE amount of the "outdoor using public" never gets much past the campground. So if it "doesn't affect them" (or so they believe)

But I have to agree, when I'm camping I don't much care for the sound of bikes and I LOVE TO RIDE. When I'm in the boonies I want the same peace and quiet we all want.

 

[Jay-R]

When I'm in the boonies I want the same peace and quiet we all want.

I have to agree. There should be areas set aside for ORV's as well as areas for peace and quiet. This is a large country and there is plenty of room for both. I mean come on, wouldn't it be nice to have 70% quiet to 30% ORV on the public lands. One of the reasons we make so much noise is that we are confined to a few small ride areas.

One of the ride areas where I used to go had a very nice camp ground and you could ride to the trails right from your campsite. But, the people who went there just to sit outside their campers and to watch other people complained about the riders. We tryed our best to be courtious, but they did not like us there. I was thinking to myself, there are thousands of campgrounds where no riders are allowed, and very few where we can ride from. To make a long story short, they built a new campground for the "do nothing" campers, and made the campground next to the trails a wranglers camp for horse riders. So, shortly after that, the horse riders complained about the off road vehicles. In short that great ride area is now for horses and hikers.

 

[NVR FNSH]

How many of you complain to yourself (or the owner, hopefully) when some jack ass (fellow dirtbiker) has their obnoxiously loud construction site generator running in the campground at mid-nite? Gee, think that the non-riding public might have the same opinion of loud bikes sharing a campground/riding area?

There is a post somewhere on the site saying a guy got measured at 111db - that is friggin' ridiculous. How far away is that bike going to be heard?

Brian

 

[RetSenior]

Brian, what did the KTM come in at about 91 db's. And performance is way down on it, huh!

 

[NVR FNSH]

smartass. I got smoked by way too many STOCK KTM 520s this weekend at Reno for people to even begin saying that a quiet stock bike is underpowered and they have to install a loud aftermarket pipe to make the bike work properly.

This is one of my pet peeves - sorry.

Brian

 

[RetSenior]

Yea but at least you had fun in Reno even with your dismount. And hey I even agree with you.

 

[NVR FNSH]

It wasn't me, I wasn't there - prove it was me:) Who told you about them? I didn't see you there and so far I haven't seen anything written....

Brian

 

[James]

Originally posted by NVR FNSH
smartass. I got smoked by way too many STOCK KTM 520s this weekend at Reno for people to even begin saying that a quiet stock bike is underpowered and they have to install a loud aftermarket pipe to make the bike work properly.

This is one of my pet peeves - sorry.

Brian

Maybe a stock KTM 520 isn't underpowered. I guess we'll all be riding KTM 1000s to get the power we need after they are all plugged up so we don't make any noise in the woods. You shouldn't have to ride a 500cc + machine to be able to climb modest hills or jump a 20' double. Go ride a stock XR250 and see what you think of stock bikes. Reason I keep referring to XRs is that they currently meet the 2006 CARB standards. I am not certain that the KTMs do.

"LOUD" aftermarket pipes suck, I agree. But many stock bikes run like there's a banana stuck in the pipe. I stand by my comment that a stock XR400 is way too plugged up and does not make enough power as delivered. To make a broad statement that they aren't is ignornant....one of my pet peeves.

 

[Bobt250]

The biggest reason an XR250 is slow ISN'T because it's quiet.

"nuff said

 

[maicomotoman]

The biggest reason an XR250 is slow ISN'T because it's quiet.

The same could be said for the XR 400. As for the YX/WR and DRZ...they could be quiet AND fast if they were engineered to be. The euro bikes have proven that it can be done because noise is more of an issue in Europe. I haven't heard/ridden any of the other euro bikes, but I know the KTM and the Husaberg are quiet and fast. Those bikes cost more, but when you look at the components and design, you can see where the money went. You don't need to replace/modify the airbox/pipe/silencer/chain/bars. They are fast and light (and quiet)right out of the box. Don't get me wrong, the Japenese motors are great, but they could be made to work more efficiantly. When it starts costing aftermarket exaust manufacturers market share and the Japanese motorcycle manufacturers are forced to engineer the bikes without throwaway exaust systems, maybe they will catch up with the euros. Until more noise is made about noise, expect to see the same attitude from said pipe and bike makers: "these hicks don't care about noise, let's just continue to take the easy route to lining our pockets" That's the way I see it , and that's the reason I don't support them or the people who cry "It's my right to run a loud pipe". No, it's NOT your right! You are infringing on the rights of others by making that excessive racket. Do you really think that you need an extra 2 horsepower out of your 40+HP bike? For what? In my opinion, being a considerate user of the forest is WAY more improtant than a modest power gain. I think the majority of trail riders are bothered by noisy bikes. The minority, who refuse to consider others, are making the sensible ones look bad. Here's an idea: all of you guys who like the sound of your loud pipes can run a hose from your pipe into your helmet. That way you can hear it at full blast all day, and not bother anyone else. Or you could just run that hose right up your:moon:

 

[James]

LOL Maicoman,

OK, OK, point taken...and I agree with you guys in most respects. But, do we really want to see dirt riding become a situation where we have to buy $6000-$8000 (or more) bikes to ensure we are quiet enough to not disturb anybody and still have suitable power to do more than casual trail riding?? One way of killing an industry is to price everybody out of being able to participate.

I'll also agree that XR250s and even 400s weren't engineered to be fast. BUT, they are the kind of bikes that get people out riding and considering the simple maintenance and lower price....keep people riding. And they are capable of going reasonably fast (I honestly prefer my CR250 but being fair to the others....) My point on those is they come stock very quiet. For not much more noise, you can increase the power very noticeably. But even that slight change will make the bike illegal if we start seeing 90db limits or lower (don't think they'll stop at 96). The real point is that these bikes in stock form currently meet the minimum standard that is going to be imposed on all of us. Choke your YZ426 down to meet those noise and emissions standards and see how well you like it.

All I am saying is, at some point, whether it be 99db, 96db, 50db?? we have to say enough is enough and realize that no compromise is going to be good enough until we can't ride anywhere.

 

[maicomotoman]

All I am saying is, at some point, whether it be 99db, 96db, 50db?? we have to say enough is enough and realize that no compromise is going to be good enough until we can't ride anywhere.

I agree. I am just saying that if the demand is there, the manufacturers will make it happen. I think that if they are required to find a way to make +40HP/-60db dirt bikes, they eventually will. They are not required to make good running, quiet bikes now. They have to make them quiet, but they also know that people will just remove the baffles(hell, they are MADE to come out!) and ride them. I know a lot of guys who ride quiet bikes without being forced to. They LIKE it that way. Unfortunatly, the only way to quiet down some guys is to have a park ranger check all the bikes with his little sound gun. This costs us money. It also will force bike and pipe makers to get thier s#%! together. I'm not a fan of rules and regulations, but sometimes they are necessary:mad:

 

[vince321]

Maicomotoman........

Give me a break. Just because you think it's your right to impose the sound levels that YOU think should be enforced, doesn't mean we have to or shoud agree with you. Once an agencey determines that your bike is too loud and that they wan't to stuff up your muffler, how will you feel?

If your looking for a quiet sport, one that won't impose upon your right to peace and quiet, why don't you take up basket weaving, or golf or any other sport that doesn't involve gas powered engines. Of course, while golfing, you may run into people who smoke cigars and then they would be imposing upon your right to breath.


BTW - I think we are still missing the point. These agencys are not interested in sound levels. How many mountain bike trails have been closed over the past few years? THEY WANT TO SHUT US DOWN. As I see it, people who are gung-ho in thier support to accept any new rules and regulations regarding sound levels are helping to push forward this agenda. There will come a time when what you feel as though your rights are being imposed upon. When this happens, I will be there backing you up regardless if I agree with them or not. This is how it should be............

 

[James]

Originally posted by 96whyzee125
FYI
The biggest reason any XR is slow ISN'T because of it's exhaust. It’s an XR.

Geez,

Another illiterate who completely misses the point while calling people on grammar. I never said the XR was slow because of it's exhaust, I said it was SLOWER and unacceptably so. Not to mention the hard starting. Besides, I'd be willing to bet your YZ needs to be muffled a lot more than my unplugged XR (your harley too no doubt).

Next time you want to climb on a soapbox, how about filling it with water and sticking your head in...might muffle the noise. And since this is a family site, how about laying off of the profanity while you school us on our grammar?

 

[zcookie49]

what the difference being at a red light next to a Harley or next to a Honda Civic with the bass rattling your car? So that is monitored too....
What the difference of being next to a loud rig downgearing with a load on the rear.
This is just too ridiculous to carry on.

 

[James]

Originally posted by maicomotoman
96wheezy : Expressionism is a style of painting, Mr. Grammer guy, I think that you probably meant to say expression. :p I don't know what GMAFB is supposed to mean... Is it a (h)arley thing?

GMAFB is one of those expressionisms they use right before they hit you with a chain because you are giving them mean looks as the loud exhaust on their harley is shaking the fillings out of yer teeth.

By the way Wheezee, I did start the XR topic so your comment was a result of something I posted in the past. The "hysterical" part about these posts (as you so eloquently put it) is that you seem to resort to threats when you can't intelligently counter someone's point. What's the matter, you can't take it as good as you can give it??

ex·pres·sion·ism n. A movement in the arts during the early part of the 20th century that emphasized subjective expression of the artist's inner experiences

Consult a dictionary...says nothing about venting, using profanity, or staying in school. The word you are looking for is "expression" as in "it was just an expression."

 

[VintageDirt]

Now boys, let's not get into fisticuffs here.
You want to practice your pugilistic arts? Go tell Scott Summers that XRs are slow.

 

[Bobt250]

Scott Summers is a real man, he kicks ass ON his motorcycle.

He might even be able to make a hARLEY go fast.

Well, that would be asking a bit much from even him.

:-)

Peace out.

 

[VintageDirt]

hEy, DO anY of you Fellers remember that aPriL fools issue of Dirt Bike where sUPER hUNKy borrowed a full dress hARLEY and had jIM HoLLy (same guy that does the live webcast for CCE supercross) do jumps and wheelies on the thing? That wuz a good'n, no? Roland wouldn't let 'ol sUPER run the hARvey on the cover.