Are we killing our own sport?

Wolf · May 10, 2006

First off, let me just say that I am not looking for a bashing contest a la 2 stroke vs 4 stroke.

Here's my take (I'm on my little soap box now):
I went to the track yesterday to help my son pactice. Fun stuff, as always.
When it was time for the big bikes to go ride, the ground started shaking, and while I'm at the track often, for some reason yesterday it all hit home. 80 % of the bikes were 4 strokes, and that's all you heard. The occasional 2 stroke sounded like a little moped in comparison. No, I did not have a sound meter, I didn't need one.
The noise was insane. I thought I was at a truck pull and should have brought ear protection. That is not to say that it bothered me...hell no, I like this stuff, but I can totally understand that others might not. Hell, if I lived near by and just sat down to dinner, I'd be pissed too! Frankly, now that I think about it, I am pissed! This will ultimately kill our sport. Manufaturers still don't seem to give a rip, aftermarket pipes are expensive and still loud...except for the Q - maybe.
They are shutting down tracks all over the country, they have outlawed operation of ATVs on your own property in many parts of the country, yet no one seems to push the panic button and implement drastic changes in rules and regulations. Hell, I agree with some of the folks that complain...you can not compare a YZF or a CRF or what ever to your lawn mower or weed trimmer anymore. They now are more like cars without mufflers.
So, when my son (he's 9 now) grows up and can only remember the days where he was able to ride and how much fun it was, I'll tell him to thank the idiot manufacturers and the people the bought this crap and didn't give a rip, and the AMA and all the race promoters and whoever else that didn't care enough to step it up and protect the sport.
The 2 strokes seem to be going away - I'd consider this a win for the enviros...
Now all they have to go after is noise, and as of yesterday, I am pretty sure they'll win :(

(I am now stepping down from my little soap box)

cnielse5 · May 10, 2006

I agree, we really need to cut the noise down. I go to an indoor track in the winter and I HAVE to wear earplugs anymore. It is not Cool to have a loud Bike!

Okiewan · May 10, 2006

We really need to push HARD for quiet pipes ... the days of no R&D at the pipe mfg's, just kicking out loud pipes with minimal performance improvement need to end.

XRpredator · May 10, 2006

Okiewan said:
the days of no R&D at the pipe mfg's, just kicking out loud pipes with minimal performance improvement need to end.

Indeed. Trouble is you still have the punks who think "loud is cool". I am doing my part to educate the "punks" in my family that stealth is cool.

Now we just gotta convince the manufacturers to give us the lighter QUIETER stuff. I'd gladly suffer a minimal performance LOSS for a large loss of noise. I don't think I'm alone.

Hear me, FMF/ProCircuit/Big Gun/et al? The market is out there. Start the development.

Okiewan · May 10, 2006

I'm putting something together on DRN to get the word out... stay tuned. We sure can't solve the problem, but we can make a lot of folks aware of it. One aftermarket company has already commited to get involved. We're gonna raise a stink and guilt as many people as we can into going quiet. Even Thump :p

cnielse5 · May 10, 2006

Noise needs to be Preached now and hard before we lose everything.

squeaky · May 10, 2006

XRpredator said:
Now we just gotta convince the manufacturers to give us the lighter QUIETER stuff. I'd gladly suffer a minimal performance LOSS for a large loss of noise. I don't think I'm alone.

You're not, the "noise is cool" frame of mind is ridiculous . I'd gladly step up and help try to educate those who think that the louder the better.

I just put a Pro Circuit T4 (I think...I don't really know...) on my bike, and it does make the TTR louder, but not ridiculous loud, not unnecessary loud. Same with Rooster's WR...he just put the FMF Q (once again I think, I don't know...) on his bike and that quieted his down. The uncorked stock pipe on the WR hurts your brain, literally. I had to wear earplugs when I rode it, but you did suffer serious power loss with it "corked."

so...what do we have to do???

jsned · May 10, 2006

Last weekend at a district 17 harescramble it was announced that next year there will be sound checks at the harescrambles. This is good. It will be a mess at first, will take time to test all the bikes, somepeople will try to cheat, but it is step.

I hope they do it right, no half-ass testing and letting some people go.

I have a couple freinds that have recently bought 4 strokes and the first thing they did was put a loud pipe on it. :bang: Now a couple of them dont race, if they did they would get midpack C class at the next Hare Scramble at best.

They are running what the pro guy they like is using, (brand name wise anyhow). I have been calling them posers lately hoping they will switch them back.

Okiewan · May 10, 2006

I hope they do it right, no half-ass testing and letting some people go.

If you mean Wardy.. I wouldn't worry about it.

ls1cameric · May 10, 2006

I noticed the same thing this past saturday at the track. There were a TON of crf's/ yzf's out there and you really couldnt hear anything when those things start screaming. It's freaking LOUD! I can totally understand your outlook and i have to agree. There has got to be something done about the noise or it will ruin the sport.

Masterphil · May 10, 2006

As much as nobody wants to say it. This was not a problem before 4-strokes came on the market. It's just the nature of a high compression, cammed out 4-stroke to be loud. It's going to take a huge effort and a step away from current muffler design to get these things anywhere close to as quiet as a 2-stroke. I'd love to see it happen, I just don't see it happening until someone big steps up to the plate and forces it to happen.

Okiewan · May 10, 2006

This was not a problem before 4-strokes came on the market.

Sure it was.... it's the same complaints it's always been. All the 4-t did was change the order the complaints were listed in. Noise is now number one, pollution has been removed. Dust, evevironmental damage, etc are still on the list. Trashed riding areas, riding illegally... it's all still there.

Don't get me wrong, noise is our number one problem and something needs to be done. It starts with the Big 5; they CAN make a powerful but quiet motorcycle. Then it's the aftermarket companies. They toss out stupid-loud exhaust that at best moves the power around and saves a couple of pounds, things that benefit the elite racers and do nothing measurable for the average weekend warrior. They too can mfg a lighter pipe that increases power and is quieter. Problem is? They'd actually have to engineer a product and that costs them more.

Until we as a group put the pressure on, nothing is going to change. How many times have you've seen a young one come on here and ask about getting a loud pipe for his ttr? What's the typical response? THAT is one major thing we can do... "education" We've got to get past the louder is faster BS. When we stop buying the loud pipes, they'll stop making them.

BadgerMan · May 10, 2006

If you are old enough to remember bikes like the early YZ’s with nothing but a little bulge on the end of the pipe or the TM 400 with nothing but a stinger, you will remember how loud a 2 stroke could be. And, it was the same old mis-informed reasoning……..more noise equals more power. We learned how to make fast but quiet two strokes. Now we need to do the same with the new generation of four strokes. Okie’s right in that if we quit buying loud aftermarket exhausts, they will quit making them.

Wolf · May 10, 2006

Okiewan said:
When we stop buying the loud pipes, they'll stop making them.

Unfortunately I don't think we have the luxury to wait that long.

Okiewan · May 10, 2006

Wolf said:
Unfortunately I don't think we have the luxury to wait that long.

True , all we can do in the short term is raise awareness and try to convince the young ones (and less informed) to at least run their stock exhaust; a loud pipe will not get them a trophy, or looks of admiration from the rest of us.

XRpredator · May 10, 2006

BadgerMan said:
If you are old enough to remember bikes like the early YZ’s with nothing but a little bulge on the end of the pipe or the TM 400 with nothing but a stinger, you will remember how loud a 2 stroke could be.

Exactly. Noise has always been a complaint. How many punks with their ratted out smokers do you still see out there? plenty. Yes, the 4 strokes have increased the noise, but I think part of that is not only people switching to the 4 from the 2, but also some other people joining the sport on the easier to ride bikes. I would bet we've seen a boom in the dirt biking population. More bikes = more noise.

2-Strokes 4-ever · May 10, 2006

Good thread..........4stroke OR 2stroke.......stealth is :cool:

Wolf · May 10, 2006

XRpredator said:
More bikes = more noise.

I'd agree with that on principle.
Thing is, I don't see more bikes in the motos, I do hear more noise.

XRpredator · May 10, 2006

I ain't just talkin' moto, Vulf. LOTS more professional practicers out there.

Okiewan · May 10, 2006

[img2=left]http://dirtrider.net/news/lsc.gif[/img2]shhhhh ......
You guys want to actually do something about it?
Coming soon to a web near you ... a non-profit, get the word out site.
Want to get involved?

2-Strokes 4-ever · May 10, 2006

Yes sir

ellandoh · May 10, 2006

:cool:

JPIVEY · May 10, 2006

Okiewan said:
Want to get involved?

Absof'nlutely

D37 went manditory 96 dbs on 01/06 and a lot of tracks around here are headed that way.

Also, we can blame the bike manufacturers and we can blame the aftermaket, but I blame the local dealers who are very aware of the sound issues but will still supply and push the 102 db level pipes to any idiot off the street

skull creek mx · May 10, 2006

Loud Sucks

Okiewan said:
[img2=left]http://dirtrider.net/news/lsc.gif[/img2]shhhhh ......
You guys want to actually do something about it?
Coming soon to a web near you ... a non-profit, get the word out site.
Want to get involved?

With your permission, I'd like to use the "Loud Sucks" moniker at my track - I'll make a banner for the front gate. Once you get the website up and running, let me know and I'll add that to the banner to get more people educated and involved.

Okiewan · May 10, 2006

Feel free to use anything ...

Are we killing our own sport?

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