Are we killing our own sport?

[Okiewan]

Who doesn't realize that Jay? The fact is, 4 strokes are popular, we all know they are louder. Continually pointing out that they are loud gets us nowhere. They aren't going away.

The question is, what do we do about it?

 

[Chili]

I respectfully disagree ... my ears (theres a disclaimer for ya) tell me the sound from the '06 doesn't carry as far.

I can't debate that point since my experience is based on being trackside taking photo's, not from being further away on practice days. Once the kid is healed up and he's practicing a bit I may have a different opinion. Overall the bike to my uncalibrated ears seems no quieter.

 

[Okiewan]

We're going to be testing some pipes/inserts very soon, I'll get some measurements... hopefully I'll be able to find a stock 05 as well.

 

[Wolf]

Don't get caught up in a debate about what's louder...that's a non issue and a useless argument.
How about debating on how to reach guys like Mr. Dubach to develop a pipe that will smoke every other pipe and be quiet, and then get the race teams to run it?
How about looking into what the folks at CRD did to get their pipes so quiet? I imagine that if a french company can do it, everyone should be able to.

 

[Thump]

Don't get caught up in a debate about what's louder...that's a non issue and a useless argument.
How about debating on how to reach guys like Mr. Dubach to develop a pipe that will smoke every other pipe and be quiet, and then get the race teams to run it?
How about looking into what the folks at CRD did to get their pipes so quiet? I imagine that if a french company can do it, everyone should be able to.

FWIW, I got to test one of the CRD pipes and it was quite. It was also obscenely heavy and REALLY made the bike a turd unless you were high in the RPM where it was acceptable but still considerably more sluggish than stock. There has to be a better solution than that because if not, I will stick with loud.

Also, if I remember right, DR. D was trying to develop a pipe that was chambered like the Hush Thrush mufflers for cars. Least thats what he said over pizza a few years back. Don't know what happened to that idiea though.

 

[Wolf]

There has to be a better solution than that because if not, I will stick with loud.

I understand that Thump, but I don't agree. If I was an aftermarket company who doesn't really have our sport at heart, I would likely bank on that attitude. If we don't have a quiet light fast pipe available, who cares, they'll all just stick with loud...so why spend the money on R&D.

 

[Patman]

Maybe something like the CRD system would be better used in a "dual" setup to balance the added weight a bit and possibly deal with the performance isse? Just a thought.

 

[Thump]

I understand that Thump, but I don't agree. If I was an aftermarket company who doesn't really have our sport at heart, I would likely bank on that attitude. If we don't have a quiet light fast pipe available, who cares, they'll all just stick with loud...so why spend the money on R&D.

I had an FMF Q on my old YZF250 and thought it was great. It wasn't wisper quiet but it was WAY better than the stocker. It was about the same weight as stock, and only took a little off the bottom. I did not get to test on on the 426 but from my experience with one on the 250F I'd be willing to try one again.

 

[Offroadr]

Who doesn't realize that Jay? The fact is, 4 strokes are popular, we all know they are louder. Continually pointing out that they are loud gets us nowhere. They aren't going away.

I am not disagreeing or arguing with you, just pointing out how we got in the situation. I agree they are not going away.

We used to ride about 30 miles of trails that was my buddies, the property has close neighbors that we didnt want to tick off. We cringed everytime someone would come ride with a 4 stroke just because of the sound travel. In the woods. a 2 stroke's sound dissapates very quickly.

 

[JPIVEY]

There has to be a better solution than that because if not, I will stick with loud.

There are pipes out there that will get you below 96dbs, I got my 426 from a 102 ( WB R4 ) to a 93.7 with a WB E series and insert total cost was around 200 bucks

D37 went manditory 96 in Jan 06, 500+ riders with every make of bike under the sun got to or below 96

FMF, WB, Supertrapp all have pipes that will get you there with little or no loss, I actually gained in the bottom to mid range, which was cool by me, I never tapped into the outer limits anyhow

 

[Masterphil]

We don't just need quieter pipes. We already have those. People don't buy them because they are heavier than stock, and in most cases lose power somewhere in the rev-range. What needs to be produced is something the same weight as stock or lighter that makes the same power as stock or better AND is quieter. Then, and only then, will your average rider/racer care enough to buy one. The pipe manufacturers are going to have to "trick" most riders into buying a quieter pipe with claims of increased power and reduced weight. Also, not having a $500+ price tag would go along way to helping them sell.

 

[JPIVEY]

I must not have paid much attention to the weight, because I didn't notice any difference; The weight ( miminal at worst ) was the least of my concerns, if I have a choice between riding or being told go pound sand because I'm too loud or the area has been close due to exceding sound levels, I'll take the added weight anytime.

Our situation may be a little different out here than it is in your neck of the woods, we have groups that are seriously trying to close all OHV use, either on Private or public land, sound levels plays a part in their quest to do this on private property including tracks, but illegal trespassing is the leading factor and they are using these two issues with great success.

We have to do what needs to be done now, if that means sacrificing a little weight or performance or both then so be it, if we wait till the industry meets our petty demands it will be too late, once an area is gone, it ain't coming back

 

[robwbright]

Also, not having a $500+ price tag would go along way to helping them sell.

It's incredible to me how much those exhausts cost. My buddy checked into a Pro Circuit system for his YZF450 (the yellow one - cool!).

I haven't verified it, but he said it was $1000.00+. Geez. I think he's going to stay with stock. . .

Is it just that the 4 strokes are the current preferred flavor (i.e. high demand), or is there some manufacturing difficulty/issue causing the high price?

 

[Okiewan]

Just another reason to stay stock. A $1,000 dual pipe for my CRF? Not a chance.

 

[robwbright]

Just another reason to stay stock. A $1,000 dual pipe for my CRF? Not a chance.

My other buddy just bought an 05 CRF250. Turns out there was a $1000.00 rebate on the 05 and the 06 (in part because of the dual exhaust) was $1000.00 more anyway - so he apparently got the 05 for $2000 less.

 

[Wolf]

This "stock" thing keeps coming back over and over....on most bikes stock is over 102 dbs and yes, I have more than just my ears to prove that. We tested at our club. Stock is too loud on most, and that falls squarely on the shoulders of the manufaturers. Don't stay stock if you claim to care about noise.

 

[Okiewan]

Baby steps mister .... step one is to get folks to avoid the loud aftermarket pipes. Step 2 would be to get them to spend money to quiet the bike, step three is to get the bike mfg's to ALL make quieter bikes and step 4 is to get the aftermarket to follow suit. Yeah, the stock pipes are too loud.. but they don't make the earth shake and your teeth chatter like a Ti T4!

 

[Wolf]

Nah, Okie, I don't think so.
Going by your steps above, step one needs to be on the manufactures. You said it yourself, stock pipes are too loud. If you are dropping 7 k on a new bike you should get a pipe with it that will meet or beat requirements to keep our sport alive. Why should you have to buy an aftermarket pipe just to be able to ride?

Actually, above all steps has to be the fact that everyone needs to realize what's going on and what's at stake....
Baby steps? Look at the rate the AMA is implementing sound restrictions...now that's baby steps...I don't think we'll have that kind of time, though I'd love to be wrong.

Of course this is only my opinion (of which there is no shortage;))

 

[Chili]

Baby steps mister .... step one is to get folks to avoid the loud aftermarket pipes. Step 2 would be to get them to spend money to quiet the bike, step three is to get the bike mfg's to ALL make quieter bikes and step 4 is to get the aftermarket to follow suit. Yeah, the stock pipes are too loud.. but they don't make the earth shake and your teeth chatter like a Ti T4!

I might reverse step's two and three. If the ruling bodies made 96db mandatory for next season with steps lowering it even further over the next 2 or 3 years, all the manufacturers would still produce bikes.

 

[JPIVEY]

Actually, I would like step one to be GET YOUR LOUD SUCKS SITE UP AND RUNNING !!!!

Start getting the info out to the masses, info like what is being closed and why, pipe test, known pipes on know bikes that will get you to 96 or less

 

[Okiewan]

Actually, I would like step one to be GET YOUR LOUD SUCKS SITE UP AND RUNNING !!!!

Workin on it!

 

[Rich Rohrich]

Workin on it!

Quit playing on the net and get back to it MISTER. :pissed:

 

[JPIVEY]

I know you are and I know it will be as benefical to the sport as DRN is

So I'll thank you now

 

[2-Strokes 4-ever]

We don't just need quieter pipes. We already have those. People don't buy them because they are heavier than stock, and in most cases lose power somewhere in the rev-range. What needs to be produced is something the same weight as stock or lighter that makes the same power as stock or better AND is quieter. Then, and only then, will your average rider/racer care enough to buy one. The pipe manufacturers are going to have to "trick" most riders into buying a quieter pipe with claims of increased power and reduced weight. Also, not having a $500+ price tag would go along way to helping them sell.

I agree........the average joe is weighing out price, weight, and performance. One day technology will have us with all three. (maybe not price) Until then, we must remember that the majority of the public thinks our dirt bikes are loud and destructive..........Commiting to quiet is #1 right now, if the public can't hear us, we stand a greater chance of being not-noticed (good thing). Support for "Loud Sucks", and making the motto seen is a very promising way of letting people know that we ALL care about the noise of our bikes and YOURS. "Threatening the sport we so much enjoy is un-cool!"

 

[Avena Quaker]

One of the first things we have to do is stop pointing the finger at 4-strokes... they are here for good

I cannot point a single good thing that those farting things brought to this sport...