basic jumping technique
- Thread starter wannayz
- Start date
- Jun 7, 2000
- 450
- 4
Is there a pot calling the kettle black here somewhere? When did you become the "great moderator" here? The moderator of this forum didn't seem to have an issue with Dell's post when he posted his own suggesstions.
I agree with Rocky5000 on this one ... You ARE being an ASS ... which quite frankly seems to be typical for you. Why did you automatically ASSume that he couldn't possibly have a "handle" on jumping ... because of his age, have you ever ridden with him? I wonder what you would have said if it were Bubba S. or Travis P. giving the advise. You seem to take pleasure in pointing out what YOU believe to be incorrect information by other members.
Sometimes we "adults" need to remember that the fearless attitude of youth is just what it takes to pull off some of the "stunts" that we are trying to do. Gomer has given me great advice and help over the years, but it took a teenager (_SOLO_) to say just do it .. follow me if you aint skeered ... to get me over a small double that I had been fighting with. He could do the jump and I could not. Therefore his knowledge was better than mine and I am twice his age. Wannayz asked for advise .. Dell gave him advice then realized that he had posted some bad info (concerning the type of bike) and changed his advise. In my opinion he has shown more maturity than you.
You are right about the literary giants of history not needing smilies to get the intended emotions across ... I do not put you on such a pedestal, so that you are not confused as to my intent ... :whiner: :aj: :flame:
wrench
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Hmmm...and you are a Mod? Using the logic you just stated should you be chiming in? I think that is called hipocracy. I wasn't going to continue with anything in this thread, but there is no way I won't respond to your pile-on here.
Oh really? Well maybe you could post some examples. It shouldn't be too hard to find many, since it seems that it's "typical" of me to do this.
Did you read the example that I gave? No, I have never ridden with dell and I don't assume he doesn't have a handle on jumping. All I can do is read what has been posted in the past. There are many more posts I could point to, but as I stated before, I won't.
Again, offer up a post or two that backs this statement up. "Quite frankly" I think you are all wet on this one...however if you can show me where I do this I will retract my statement and appologise because I DO NOT take pleasure in correcting anyone at any time. Now, if I happen to reply to a post and my advise differs from a previous poster, that does not mean that I took pleasure in correcting anyone, it simply means I offered a dissenting opinion.
I've never exchanged anything with you before, wrench...and I didn't know you had a problem with me, but since you have voiced that you do...in the future be sure and call me on any of my obviously assanine rants. Try to use hardcopy information rather than your "feelings" though. A few others who don't like what I post seem to think I always am an ass, but when they are asked to offer up posts pointing this feature out, they come up short. They too are going by feelings only.
Dell,
I want to say this: I am sorry that this got to where it is. It was a simple thread and I made a simple comment. I realise that maybe I should have just kept quiet, but like I've stated before I have wanted to say something for awhile now. I may be wrong, I may be right. I realise you are a valued member here, and rightly so. This had nothing to do with your personality whatsoever. I could have jumped in and tried to make you look stupid, but I didn't. I do, however, realise that I can seem a bit blunt and caustic even when I post the smallest of comments....sorry. This was not personal at all.
By the way, I'd be glad to ride with you any time, young man.
LOL, I didn't say it crossed my mind to actually Not say anything...I just realise I Should keep my big mouth shut. (big ass grin)
On a serious note...I hope we are kewl, dell.
Oh and wrench....since I am not a literary giant, I'd like to also offer this:
:moon:
( roost sucks ya know...wait, I'm sure you do know :) )
On a serious note...I hope we are kewl, dell.
Oh and wrench....since I am not a literary giant, I'd like to also offer this:
:moon:
( roost sucks ya know...wait, I'm sure you do know :) )
- Thread starter
- #32
Now Now.........let me TRY to cool this down. I appreciate the advice from all and the little interplay gave me a chuckle until I realized it was getting a little heated. So what I'm trying to say is looking at it objectively as an outsider, I don't think it's worth making a big deal over it - it's like walking outside with your fly open - you'll be embarrassed to your dying day but the people who saw may chuckle but then foget all about it - no need to internalize it that much because it's really not that important.
Speaking of statements, even overstatements - I rode today as hoped and realized the jumps were not 60 degrees but mostly about 40 - 45 degreees and although the jumps were high, some were only about 5 feet and at most 6-8 feet - kind of tough to say!. I approached them a bit more aggresively, definitely standing but still unable to launch and when I did, (maybe), i felt a bit out of control. I did try to compress. I mentioned to a friend that some people get a bit of air even though they are at a snails pace - so I must be at a slug's pace - he says they blip the throttle to get the air but I don't always hear any throttle.
Speaking of statements, even overstatements - I rode today as hoped and realized the jumps were not 60 degrees but mostly about 40 - 45 degreees and although the jumps were high, some were only about 5 feet and at most 6-8 feet - kind of tough to say!. I approached them a bit more aggresively, definitely standing but still unable to launch and when I did, (maybe), i felt a bit out of control. I did try to compress. I mentioned to a friend that some people get a bit of air even though they are at a snails pace - so I must be at a slug's pace - he says they blip the throttle to get the air but I don't always hear any throttle.
wannayz,
First, I want to say I'm sorry for causing your thread to get out of hand. It looks that you see things pretty clearly though.
Most proffesionaly built jumps will have a take-off ramp that is at an angle from 30-40 degrees, most are about 35 degrees. Landing ramps are usually a bit less at 20 degrees or so. However there can be all sorts of angles, which is one of the things that makes our sport exciting.
Physics tells us that if you launch an object at 45 degrees it will go farther than with the same volocity at any other angle...but there are forces involved with our bikes that makes a 45 degree jump a bit tough to negotiate. A jump with that steep of an angle will tend to make you go front high.
A couple of tips that I find make all the difference would be to stay a bit more forward than you would think correct. Be able to see your number. Also, keep a good hold of your bike when jumping with your legs. Just be conscience of squeezing in when approaching the ramp. This will help to keep the bike in a good position and keep from throwing you around so much.
Good luck and most of all HAVE FUN!
First, I want to say I'm sorry for causing your thread to get out of hand. It looks that you see things pretty clearly though.
Most proffesionaly built jumps will have a take-off ramp that is at an angle from 30-40 degrees, most are about 35 degrees. Landing ramps are usually a bit less at 20 degrees or so. However there can be all sorts of angles, which is one of the things that makes our sport exciting.
Physics tells us that if you launch an object at 45 degrees it will go farther than with the same volocity at any other angle...but there are forces involved with our bikes that makes a 45 degree jump a bit tough to negotiate. A jump with that steep of an angle will tend to make you go front high.
A couple of tips that I find make all the difference would be to stay a bit more forward than you would think correct. Be able to see your number. Also, keep a good hold of your bike when jumping with your legs. Just be conscience of squeezing in when approaching the ramp. This will help to keep the bike in a good position and keep from throwing you around so much.
Good luck and most of all HAVE FUN!
jmics19067
LIFETIME SPONSOR
- Jan 22, 2002
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blippingthe throttle would be something I would NOT recommend on a four stroke or any bike to tell you the truth. steady acceleration up and over the the jump would be what I would say to do unfortunately only experience is going to tell you how much works for what. Start small and practice and work your way up trying to feel what the bike is doing as you are doing it.
I am by no means a decent jumper but from having a wr400 and trying to blip the throttle like I used to on my two stroke I can tell you that 1 it is very difficult to time the blip compared to just steady acceleration. 2 even if you had the blip timed right , that blipping I swear did something wierd to my suspension some wierd rebound sensation that just always left me feeling like I was hanging out to dry in the middle of the jump. 3 if you dont have the timing of the blip things can get ugly quick!.
I am not sure if it is me or what but if and when I jumped that bike, while up in the air if I closed the throttle the bike just seemed to drop like a rock. Try holding the throttle open at the same speed as when you went up and off the jump<within moderation of course> .
High Lord Gomer
Poked with Sticks
- Sep 26, 1999
- 11,788
- 35
Letting off in the air on most 4 strokes is like hitting the rear brake...it will slow the rear tire and cause the bike to rotate forward (back up, front down).
The CRF450s I've ridden didn't have that noticeable of a reaction to letting off the throttle, though.
I also agree that blipping the throttle at the face of a jump is difficult to time, expecially on a 4 stroke.
The CRF450s I've ridden didn't have that noticeable of a reaction to letting off the throttle, though.
I also agree that blipping the throttle at the face of a jump is difficult to time, expecially on a 4 stroke.
jmics19067
LIFETIME SPONSOR
- Jan 22, 2002
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basicly yes I said that when I let off the throttle on my wr 400 while in the air I would drop like a rock , it was easier and smoother and safer for me if I kept the throttle open. If I approached a jump and went off of it at half throttle I would keep it at half throttle as best as I could until I landed. I am going to pick and choose the sentences I wrote and try to explain what I meant by them
I hope I am making sense with what I mean here. I definately do not wish any disaster of hitting the jump wide open and holding it there to any one.
go over a small jump with a slight rate of accelaration if the bike tends to nose dive try the same jump with slightly more rate of acceleration if the bike is front end high try a lessor rate of acceleration keeping the throttle steady and slowly work up to bigger jumps and bigger rates of acceleration as you feel comfortable on what the bike is going to do.
now I am a novice and I believe I am trying to help another novice survive the jumps not nessecarily attack them WFO. If you are leaving the jump at a ridiculous rate of acceleration going nose high then backing off the throttle and or tapping the rear brake is a smart thing to do to save your skin. something I dont believe most beginner/ novices especially myself feel comfortable doing. If you leave the face of the jump at that sweet spot of acclelaration where the bike just kinda floats off the top off the jump maintains a nice steady arc and level attitude through the air that you are comfortable with and lands with a decent attitude in relation to the ground you are landing on there is no need to play around with blipping the throttle ,shutting off ,brake tapping and /or panic revving. Then when you are landing with the throttle on you help resist bottoming and start your forward momentum immediately.
I hope I am making sense with what I mean here. I definately do not wish any disaster of hitting the jump wide open and holding it there to any one.
- Thread starter
- #38
Thanks......and I understand the advice. Just steady does it and gain confidence as I go along. Blasting throttle or letting off, especially with four stroke torque and/or engine braking could upset the attitude in the air - both are good techniques but best used after experience is gained. I just can't understand how to get the air in the first place but probably I'm just going much slower than I realize as being a beginner, everything seems too fast for me right now. But dat's ok, I'll get it with time. I've got lots to work on including basic bike control and good habits. I think a couple of lessons could help too. It's not like I'm a kid anymore and have all the time in the world to trial and error it. :)
carlbielke
Member
- Jul 4, 2002
- 81
- 0
"It's not like I'm a kid anymore and have all the time in the world to trial and error it."
Ok, so go faster then, that's what you should really do, instead of making ol' jaybird foam at the corner of his mouth.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Ok, so go faster then, that's what you should really do, instead of making ol' jaybird foam at the corner of his mouth.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
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wannayz was in no way responsible for my rant.
OK, im no pro by any means, but ive found that to get the bike to float level the best, i get up to speed before the jump, let off a bit before the take off, then keep the gas steady, this is on a 125, so i dont know about a 250 or thumper. And if youre a novice, you might want to wait to try this. Ive just found that it works well to keep the bike level.
It's good to see that time truly does heal all wounds.
Without giving any specific advice on jumping, I would suggest that wannayz buy a copy of the Gary Semics Absolute Techniques of Motocross. I think you'll find it will really accelerate your learning curve. It's available in the ads of any of the mags and best of all it's only about $15 or so. Read it over and over and over... I promise you it will help you ride better.
Good luck and be safe.
Without giving any specific advice on jumping, I would suggest that wannayz buy a copy of the Gary Semics Absolute Techniques of Motocross. I think you'll find it will really accelerate your learning curve. It's available in the ads of any of the mags and best of all it's only about $15 or so. Read it over and over and over... I promise you it will help you ride better.
Good luck and be safe.
High Lord Gomer
Poked with Sticks
- Sep 26, 1999
- 11,788
- 35
There are a lot of jumps that require a full commitment and throttle all the way to the jump.
I've watched many riders consistently come up short because they would accelerate hard out of a turn, back off 3/4 of the way to the jump, then get back on the gas for the takeoff. Most will argue and tell you that they did hold the throttle on all the way until you show them the tape!
Our local rising star (James) has no problem twisting the throttle. He didn't believe me when I recently told him that by this time next year I would be asking him how hard to hit different jumps, but mark my words...
I've watched many riders consistently come up short because they would accelerate hard out of a turn, back off 3/4 of the way to the jump, then get back on the gas for the takeoff. Most will argue and tell you that they did hold the throttle on all the way until you show them the tape!
Our local rising star (James) has no problem twisting the throttle. He didn't believe me when I recently told him that by this time next year I would be asking him how hard to hit different jumps, but mark my words...
I think the biggest thing I learned about jumping was just take it at your own pace. So it takes you a month to one jump, who cares? The bigger jumps are not always the hardest. Case in point, a 50ft table at the local MX track. Perfect take off, perfect landing and no bumps, ruts to get you out of your groove before you take off. When I first started riding I did this jump probably 30-40 times a day, over and over. I'd usually get about 2ft of air the first time, then a little more, opp's to much the front tire came up, a bit more. Ok finally starting to hit it about 1/4 in 3rd. Its just practice. Don't worry about angles, or degree's or any of that other crap because all its going to do is confuse you. Jump a jump that YOU feel comfortable on. Not the smallest, not the biggest, just pick your fav one.
When I used to go up to that 50ft table, my mind would be racing 100 miles per second thinking about what I was supposed to do and how I would counter act this, or that. That just makes it worse :) Don't gas it off the jump, or else your front tire will pop up. Don't let off the gas without the clutch in or else you'll nose dive. At first get into a higher gear, say 3rd or 4th, keep the rpm's low and just go off the jump with maybe 1/4 or less throttle. You can even pull the clutch in before you take off, if you'd feel better. I used to blip in 3rd or 4th, pull the clutch in as I was going up the ramp and the bike would usually come around without any probs. Just take your time and do it at your own pace. You'll figure it out, I did..
Good Luck...
When I used to go up to that 50ft table, my mind would be racing 100 miles per second thinking about what I was supposed to do and how I would counter act this, or that. That just makes it worse :) Don't gas it off the jump, or else your front tire will pop up. Don't let off the gas without the clutch in or else you'll nose dive. At first get into a higher gear, say 3rd or 4th, keep the rpm's low and just go off the jump with maybe 1/4 or less throttle. You can even pull the clutch in before you take off, if you'd feel better. I used to blip in 3rd or 4th, pull the clutch in as I was going up the ramp and the bike would usually come around without any probs. Just take your time and do it at your own pace. You'll figure it out, I did..
Good Luck...
i agree 100% with what Hucker says. You dont need to make sure your at the right angle or have your feet on the balls of your feet. Just start doning a jump over and over ...sooner or later you will start getting more and more air and as soon as you start doing that and feeling comfy on them. IT IS SOO MUCH FUN! i know when my dad got me a kx-250 i was soo scared for the first 2 or 3 weeks of riding. My mind was racing 100 miles about what could happen and what to do and all this crap. The key is NOT TO do that. Just go over the jump a million times. I know all you new riders are scared crapless of jumps right now but youll see ...youll be hitting them in no time, just take your time. Trust me it is better that way and easier.
-only 1 tip you need...keep low constant throttle the whole way up and youll do fine..and stand up. only 2 things ...now go out and try it a million times. :)
-only 1 tip you need...keep low constant throttle the whole way up and youll do fine..and stand up. only 2 things ...now go out and try it a million times. :)
- Thread starter
- #47
thanks again to all. i keep looking and learning. I am getting a feel with slow steady progression. I find that a bit of crouch at the takeoff and a slight lift as I come off the top helps lighten the bike. I will checkout that book - I've been asking people if they know of any tapes or books and they all say they just go out and DO IT, but I do want some instruction - might be taking a lesson next weekend. thanks.
I would agree wholeheartedly with the Gary Semics book. Take it to the track with you and practice, practice, practice. Check out their site HERE . My son and I went to a 2-Day class when he first decided to race MX and it was money well spent. If you can't get to a class, get the Beginner tape(s) and do the drills. It will make you a better, safer rider. Faster comes later.
i am a beginner too just have fun. but start out small such as a 4 ft. jump. this would be a good one too start with. i have a 4ft. tat is what i am starting on. i have a kx 80 i am 13 years old. i have been told to compress the suspension a little bit. also to blip the throttle at the top of the jump to get your fron wheel up. u can also just go off the jump at a steady speed. i am a beginner also. do not ake alll of this too be true.!!
