Buffalo pit "Enduro Cross"

[Dist1740b]

I was getting some woods seat time in today at buffalo pit
and ran into the crew setting up for the "Enduro cross"
Coming up...
I am not a big fan of the "Slag" soil there BUT
If you ever wondered where all those trails go to
through out the place You will find out by riding this event!
They are chainsawing those deer paths a tad wider from stem to stern!
A+ see you there!

 

[WaltCMoto]

When is it?

 

[Dist1740b]

Side 2 is full of raffle stuff...

 

[jaction125]

I won't be riding the races, but I'll be there saturday. If they are letting people ride the course I'll let ya know what I think.

 

[Layton]

I'd like to know why they are paying enduro points for this event. If anything it is closer to an hare scramble then an enduro.

 

[James980]

Fredette's running it right? He's the euduro director for D-17, so I guess it was easier for him to just pay enduro points than get Jay Hall (HS director) involved for harescramble points. That's just my guess, though.

James

 

[Layton]

No, Fredette's not running it. Different "Jeff".

I know it went through Fredette because he is the enduro director, I just don't get "Why" it is paying enduro points.

 

[coolktm]

Is there any more details on how this is going to work? Is it going to be a certain abount of time or just so many laps?

 

[James980]

Really? I thought the whole idea was to sort of mimic the ISDE format...hence ISDE King Fredette's participation. He's run stuff there before, so it made sense to me. You're right, though; it does seem to be more of a harescramble than an enduro.

James

Originally posted by Layton
No, Fredette's not running it. Different "Jeff".

I know it went through Fredette because he is the enduro director, I just don't get "Why" it is paying enduro points.

 

[Dist1740b]

It is so Confusing....
You will ride your first lap which is your parade lap...(What ever that means)?
you get a 10 minute break then you ride the red arrowed course...
ten min break, blue course...
Ten min,black course....
something like that I was told.
Enduro points paid? Its not on there flyer?

But if you want to rip around the entire buffalo pit area and see where every trail leads too,this run will cover it.

 

[Layton]

Originally posted by Dist1730b
Enduro points paid? Its not on there flyer?

Yes it is! Right in the middle just to the left of the O'neal decal.

 

[FlyinRyan]

Here is what I understand after talking with Jeff Goss at Roselawns enduro.

1st Loop will be a 12 mph average, so for many this will be a very easy pace and allow the fast guys to see everything (this is why they are saying a parade lap). There will be a check at the end that wll be a known control (can arrive 15minutes early). Then you'll have the 10 minute rest and go to a "restart" for the second loop.

2nd loop I was under the impression that it was the same loop just at 24 or 30 mph average with a check at the end, again a known control. This will try to take points from the everyone. I believe this will be an emercency check (records seconds). Then you'll have another 10 minute break and do antoher restart for the 3rd loop.

3rd loop will have added stuff for the A and AA riders, more technical areas. I'm a little confused if the B & C's go out on this loop or not.

At the end there will be a final moto, about 10 laps on a 2 mile course that includes the moto track, the sand pit, and the woods. Not sure if everyone is doing the final moto or not.

I am confused about the different colored arrows, Jeff never mentioned anything about different colored arrowed loops, but one of the guys that is helping was telling me about the different loops and sections that are arrowed different colors. Not sure they are set on everything yet.

As far as paying Dist 17 enduro points I'm not to sure it should either, but it is considered a Reliability Enduro by the AMA. I think the concept is great and hope that Jeff Goss and crew can pull it off. Unfortunatly enduros are not growing and this may be a way to get more people involved. As far as I know you won't need time keeping equipemt, maybe a wrist watch and a route sheet holder. Plus with land being harder to get each year for enduros, this may be the future of enduros in this area.

So that's about all I know. I will be there and I hope it is fun. Jeff Goss also mentioned that they have tons of stuff to give away, so everyone should at least come for free stuff.

 

[Bob Brooks]

The points aspect is irrelevant to me. It sounds like a lot of fun though, and we definitely plan to be there.

 

[Layton]

I guess I’m just a little confused. :confused: Just how much riding are we getting for the money? When I talked to Jeff at the Roselawn enduro he said that the entry would probably be $40 + the $5.00 gate fee and $45 + 5 for the pro class.

The way I understand it each class would ride each loop A (3 miles), B (5 miles), and C (6 miles) one time and then finish with the GP Moto test which would be 2 miles times either 6 or ten laps depending on your class.

I realize that to a motocrosser that may seem like a lot of riding but to an enduro or hare scramble rider, it isn’t much. :ugg:

Or would the “first” loop at 12 MPH consist of riding “all” of the terrain one time? That would add quite a bit of distance to the actual event plus would increase the fun factor because you could ride the entire first time around at an easy (12 MPH) pace. Heck, I think I can even make that speed. ;)

 

[jaction125]

Do I need to be an AMA member for this thingy? If I enter it will be my first race ever. How about district membership?

 

[FlyinRyan]

Layton, I think everyone is a little confused by this. The way i understood it was that the first loop we will ride everything so that we see everything and then they will test us through it. But the more I here from people the more confused I get.

I have not heard the prices yet, $45 is too high IMO. The nationals are only $40 or $50 dollars and we get almost 100 miles, I think they are trying to get 40 miles or so, should be around $30 like the rest of the enduros.

I think they will have it all figured out and I am hoping it will be fun. I have always liked the races at the pit and hope I like this one too.

Jaction125, yes you will need to be an AMA member plus a District 17 memeber to race.

 

[Bish]

A little more detail for you all.

We will have 3 separate loops approx 16 miles total. Everybody rides them twice. We have calculated what you "should" ride them in and will be penalized for being late. Then the A and AA riders ride another loop but with some different "hero sections" and a higher mph (24mph) finishing with a GP that all but A & AA should be able to spectate. A & AA should be pushing 50 ground miles.

The trail consists of woods, moto, sand, and grass track. We have intentially stayed away from riding the woods to keep it as tight as possible. It will be well arrowed with different colors for each loop. You do not need timekeeping equipment. You do not need lights as this is closed course.

Jeff and I and a few others have put in MANY hours cutting new trail and MANY $$$ on supplies and building bridges including an over/under to avoid a stop and go. Entry fee is $40 +$5 park fee. While we realize it is a little high compared to enduros, but we are also giving away lots of cash to the fastest!!! We also have raffles with a BARE MINIMUM of tickets being sold to increase the odds of winning. We also have some giveaways including gift certificates. At this point, we will NOT make ANY money unless we get a boat load of riders (like hundreds).

We are not doing this to make money. We are doing this to provide another racing opportunity for our district. For those people whining out there, take a look at what has happened to the enduro schedule the last few years. Less is not better!!!!! Unfortunately, this may be a sign of things to come what with landowner problems and all. Come out and give it a try. If you don't like it, don't come next year. If you really piss and moan a lot, there will be one less race in next year's schedule cause we'll just say "screw it, it's not worth the aggravation".

Come out and give it a shot....you might just have a blast!

 

[Bish]

Check that type....should be pushing 70 ground miles.

Can't edit my post for some reason.

 

[Bob Brooks]

Bish,

Thanks for the update on the event and for some of your explanations and feedback. Buffalo is our local riding spot and it’s nice to see another event done there. I hope it’s successful for you and something that we have on the schedule to look forward to each year.

As far as the $45 entry fee, I understand the need to charge what you’re charging and appreciate the reasoning behind it. I’m sure you and your cohorts have put a ton of time and energy into this event and it’s not going to be a moneymaker. However, with that said, I can’t help but feel that the high entry fee is going to discourage some riders from coming out and trying it. For example, my wife Anne and I had both planned to ride this event when we first learned about it and saw the flyers. But to be perfectly honest, we can’t afford to spend $90 in entry fees for both of us to race that day. We’ll still be there, but Anne probably will not ride. If the entry fees were more standard, say $25 or even $30, then both of us would sign up and you’d have two riders from the Brooks team instead of just one. Sixty dollars is a lot more palatable for us to spend on a day of racing than ninety…and I can’t help but think a lot of other potential racers are going to feel the same way. A person would be a lot more apt to come out and try it for $30 than $45, especially when you’re talking about C riders and women. Now in our case, Anne is three-months pregnant anyway and it’s iffy whether or not she’s physically up to riding these events at this stage. But with the higher than usual entry fee, the decision whether or not to ride is an easy one for her…she’ll be watching and filling my gas that day instead of out on the course participating herself.

I’m not trying to whine here at all. We’re very pleased that we have another local event to try and we greatly appreciate the hard work going into it and we’ll be there to support it and we hope like hell that this race is successful. My opinion is just that the entry fee is a steep for a local event and that’s it’s going to discourage many of the less-than-hardcore racers from coming out. If the entry fee were more reasonable, particularly for C riders and women, you might get 180 riders showing up instead of 60 or 70 or whatever.

 

[Layton]

Bish,

Thanks for the comeback. Now for some questions and a couple of comments.

Does everyone ride the trails twice plus the practice/first slow lap or is it once plus the practice/first slow lap for the B riders? (16 X 2 or 16 X 3)
16 X 2 is only 32 miles since only the A/AA riders go a third loop. Please re-explain this.

What would the Super Senior class ride? That’s +50 years.

Several comments:

First, $45.00 is a lot of money for a local race. No matter how you cut it this is nothing more than a fancy hare scrambles or a European enduro. Without a doubt, it may be fun but so are hare scrambles and enduros and at a much lower price.

Second, I could give a darn that you are “giving away lots of cash to the fastest”. If you want to pay them then take it out of THEIR entry fees but don’t charge me more just to give it to a handful of riders that are going to be there anyway. In other words charge the guys that want to run for the money $50 and split that money between them in any fashion you choose but charge everyone else a more reasonable fee.

Third, I still don’t think that this event should be paying enduro points especially for a first year and totally new style event. I realize that in Europe this is basically what an enduro is but not here at least not yet.


I’ve been riding for over 30 years and have ridden qualifiers so I understand the concept of what you are trying to do and give you a lot of credit for trying.

Also, you are giving your side as a promoter as you should and I am voicing my concerns and questions as a customer, which is to be expected.

You say you are not in it for the money and that may be true but personally I hope you do make money. No one wants to go to all of the effort and expense that it takes to put on an event and not make something for his or her efforts. And yes, I do know this from experience. :)

With all that said I am planning on riding unless it rains in which case I will be there watching. It should be real interesting. :eek:

Again, please re-explain the number of laps EACH class will run.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Bish]

OK...more detail as requested.

First off, I agree totally that $45 is steep. Unfortunately, we have a very high "Park Rental Fee" that we must pay. Normally this is not the case with private land but at Buffalo, it is the way it is. That coupled with the prize money leads us to our number. We realize that this may discourage some from riding, however we could not take a chance at losing a couple thousand dollars for our first year. If we get a good turnout and people want to do away with the prize money, we will definitely lower the cost for next year. I am all in favor of cheaper riding but unless somebody has some local land they would like to let us use on the cheap, we are stuck with paying for it.

Back to the riding. All mileages are approximate as we have not yet ridden the complete course to get mileage but they are close as e have done most sections.

B and C riders


16 mile loop at 12MPH
16 mile loop at 18MPH
2 mile GP course X 6 loops

This should give us about 45 ground miles

A and AA riders
16 mile loop at 12mph
16 mile loop at 18mph
16 mile loop at 24mph - this loop has some different trail including some hero sections.
2 mile GP course x 10 laps

This should give you about 68 ground miles.

That's it. Regarding enduro points, I think Jeff and Jeff (Fredette) decided that giving enduro points would help encourage a better turnout. I can certainly see both sides of that issue.If you still don't think so after the event, comment to Fredette and I'm sure he will take that into consideration for next year.

Hope to see you all there. If it is reasonably dry it should be a BLAST. If it is really wet, it should be VERY challenging as anyone who rides Buffalo would know.

Later.

 

[djj]

Thanks Bish for the info, I'm planning on being there and riding, thanks again for putting on this event. Are you going to put the stair case in? Someone worked on it and its easy now so might not be that big of a challenge.

 

[Bish]

Yeah, we made the stair section a little easier so most would make it without too much difficulty. There will be some other challenging sections mostly for the A riders. If we get lots of rain, there could be lots of challenging sections :)

 

[coolktm]

Is the trail going to go up or down the stair section? Going down was never a problem, just going up sometimes was.

 

[Bish]

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