Combo: Trail/Trials Bike

[bultaco250]

Yeah, it is an Alp.
Reserve's already met and if it goes for $1800, it looks like a pretty good deal. Ends @ 7:15 PST today.
My take on the future of 4-strokes in trials is that since they don't use displacement as a basis for class division, the only disadvantage is that the manufacturers are limited to a specific (and typically more complicated) engine technology. Possibly adding to the sell price. I'm still a bit torn about 4-strokes in motocross and the displacement advantage, although it seems to have worked well to keep an even playing field and it makes sense that different motor technologies shouldn't be compared simply by displacement. In GP racing, limiting technology seems like a good move, as the racing technology will have a more direct route to the consumer. What wins on Sunday, sells on Monday.

 

[bultaco250]

PS
The Yamahas are more abundant in our area and cheaper to buy. The Hondas seem to have more collector value and better parts support. My experience with both is that the Yamaha has a better engine but otherwise they both weigh and handle about the same. My 2 cents, again.

 

[TexKDX]

Originally posted by wayneg
Theres a 1998 Beta for sale on Ebay which looks to me like it might be and ALP.

Have a look

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2400612496&category=6719

$2250!!!! Gee, guess I feel pretty smug about paying $1000 for mine...

 

[Patman]

Originally posted by TexKDX


$2250!!!! Gee, guess I feel pretty smug about paying $1000 for mine...

$1000!!!!! You got my number when you tire of it.

 

[geremacheks]

Just looking at these Beta Alps on the Beta site. The new ones look like trail bikes, not trials bikes. Is that so?

Is is just these older ones that are trials bikes with lights and seat? If so, does anybody know the model years that the bikes looked like this one on E-Bay, and this pic of TexKDX's bike? Seems to be a good combination of trials/trails in one bike. And not too much of an investment to buy a used one. Any info welcome. Thanks.

 

[wayneg]

As far as I can figure '98 was the last year of the two stroke Alps, after that they all use the 200cc Suzuki four stroke motor, and yes the four stroke is more of a trail bike than a trials bike. The two stroke Alp such as what Tex has is probably more what you're looking for, and there was also a competition kit that you could get for them. This basically turned the bike back into a trials bike with a much smaller seat unit, and more rear set foot pegs.

 

[wayneg]

I found some more pictures of the two stroke Alp, but also interestingly a picture of a '93 Beta SYNT. They look the same to me, so you could buy a Synt and then hopefully buy a seat for it. The Synt was meant to be a cheaper trials bike which Beta sold along side the Gara (which was it's first aluminium framed bike), and obviously they still had some spare frames left over, and then stuck a seat on it and called it an Alp!!! :laugh:

The only difference that I can see between them is that the older bike had a cable clutch and the older square shaped barrel - which makes sense as it is the same motor as in the '93 Gara. The motor is very similar to the motors in the Betas sold today, except it may not have the fancy digital ignition. If it doesn't have the digital ignition then it will feel extremely strong and peaky (for a trials bike that is!!).

 

[TexKDX]

The Alp of my era uses a frame (steel) all to itself. The same era Techos use a Verlicci-made aluminum frame (94-99) then the Verlicci-framed Rev3.

The new Alp uses the Little Suzy DR200 motor. A friend of mine has one. Very different bike from the 2 smoke. The new one makes a great pack trail bike as does the old one. I have not tried the new Alp on a trials section, but suspect it would be fine for Rookie, Novice, and Adv Novice lines. Heck if you can do it on a TL250 then this little baby should be OK too - more modern brakes and suspension. Beta does offer a competition kit for the new bike - further back pegs, moves the brake/shifter, lower gears, different taillight.

 

[huntmaster]

As mentioned elsewhere here there are numerous bikes that attempted to bridge this gap, from the old Bultaco Alpina to the 1980's Honda Reflex and the modern Beta Pompera. Any of these could be good bets.

Modern trials bike are a total loss for anything but hard core trials. Vintage trials bikes while less capable in trials, offer a degree of trail riding capability, at least to the limit of their suspension travel. Still, it's hard to beat a good trials bike for trials and trail bike for trails!

DH

 

[TexKDX]

Originally posted by huntmaster

SNIP
Modern trials bike are a total loss for anything but hard core trials. Vintage trials bikes while less capable in trials, offer a degree of trail riding capability, at least to the limit of their suspension travel. Still, it's hard to beat a good trials bike for trials and trail bike for trails!
SNIP
DH

Huntmaster, not sure what your experience is with modern trials bikes is but mine is different when it comes to trail riding. My '01 Monty makes a surprizingly good trail bike. The suspension has good bottoming resistance, the motor plenty of power, the ergos good for a stand-up trail rider like myself, etc. You can equip any '97 and later Monty with an oversized tank. Spark arrestors of one form or another are available for the modern bikes. There are even tank bags made just for these bikes.

A late friend of mine has done enduros on a trials bike (placed pretty well too) and some hard core adventure touring in Mexico as well. For real snotty, wet, and hilly enduros, I'll take a trials bike any day over a tall, heavy "real" dirt bike.

 

[TexKDX]

When trail riding over in Taylor Park I've come across a group of old guys several times on GG trials bikes. They tape/zip tie foam to the bike to make a seat and carry extra fuel with them. Seem like they are having a ball on them.

 

[wayneg]

Yeah me too! I really enjoy going on trail rides on my Beta, however I'm a very slow trail rider, and the small petrol tank is a bit of a PITA.

I'm going to have a go at our local school fundraising trail ride on the 16th. I will take some spare gas with me this time though, apart from that the little Beta will surprise some of the faster PW50 riders :laugh:

 

[Patman]

Yup with the tank bag I can carry lots of extra fuel or some fuel and some extra whatever plus my keys and a snack plus it never gets in the way.

Huntmaster you should have been at DW2K! I rode the mini SX track on mine! :)

 

[TexKDX]

On the Rio Bravo mini-SX track I lapped a guy on a 426 on my Monty!!! It was all the rider, not the bike of course, but it does show the trials bike versatility. No, I did not jump the doubles or triple - too hard on the frame and suspension.

 

[huntmaster]

I suppose you could trail ride a Gold Wing too if need be! The point was simply that with no seat, no range, cramped, ergos, etc. there are better choices for trail mounts then a full on trials bike. If a harescramble course starts to resemble a 10km long trials section, then a trials bike might be a good start! Trials bikes USED to offer a better balance re: trail capability, but as they became better trials bikes, they became worse trail bikes. As there are other tools for that job, perhaps this really isn't a major problem?

DH

 

[Patman]

LOL! Same can be said for every aspect of bikes. Crotch rockets, Goldwings, MX bikes, ..... Last I checked a CR125 was not the best HS rig either :) Wouldn't it perfect if everybody just rode XR250's :confused:

 

[wayneg]

I think that the angle that you'd approach trail riding on a more modern trials bike changes things a fair bit as to what you are trying to achieve. When we go trail riding it becomes less of the 'lets find a track' and more of a 'lets make a new track' or 'I wonder whether I can get up that bank/hill/log' type of thing, followed by 'I wonder if I have enough gas left to make it back again' :eek:

Generally if you go on a 'casual' trail ride with some of the better riders of our trials club then its less of a casual putter and more likely to cause grevious bodily harm :)
The other riders tend to have a fair bit more skill than me, so I end up struggling to just survive, and theres no way I could ride an XR250 in some of the situations that I find myself in.

We have an annual event as a memorial event to mark the passing of one of our top riders on the 22nd of February 2000 which is called a 'roving trial'. This is a really tough trail ride basically, with the only the difference being that it is usually 5 or 6 hours of extremely punishing riding and a lot of fun?? :scream: I haven't had the chance to ride this event as I broke my finger before the event (supposedly helping to mark out the route) started two years ago, and couldn't make it last year because of work committments. This would be the perfect type of event for one of those Pamperas or Alps as the terrain is difficult enough to warrant using a trials bike, but long enough to want a seat and larger gas tank (we each have to carry 3 litres of gas with us in a back pack just to make it around). Should be good (I hope!).

 

[TexKDX]

Yea whatever. Down here where us Americans don't know any better, one of the pinnacle events of the year is the Ute Cup here in CO. The loop is 20 miles long and you do two loops a day for two days. Yup, 80 miles. The sections are set up to be Intermediate friendly in a "ride through" sort of fashion. Something like 60 different sections.

The place we held the Texas Series Round 1 and 2 this weekend is on 350 private wooded acres between Houston and Dallas. I rode there for 3 days and would not take anything but a trials bike to trail ride at this place.

You talk about ustas and hybrid bikes. I had my Monty, a Reflex, and a '74 TY250 there. The ergos on the hybrid (Reflex, Alp) as well as the TY are very cramped when using the seat. Besides, who rides offroad sitting down anyway? In fact, the ergos on the Monty feel more spread out compared to those bikes. If you measured the distance from the bars to the pegs you'll see what I mean. The pegs are way back and down and the bars high and forward. The Alp and TY pegs are actually fairly far forward compared to the Monty.

Better choice? I'd call it different, not better. It is all in the HOW you is a gittin' there, not the how fast.

 

[DAB]

I gotta say, if you have not tried a GasGas Pampera, you would be amazed. It is the closest thing I've ridden to a trials bike among conventional trail bikes with seats. If you put a trials tire on the rear and ride on really knarly trails with your buddies, it's like cheating!
Dan Brown

 

[WildOK]

Yes, yes, yes! The GG Pampera is pretty much exactly what you are looking for. Excellent easy to use power, light weight and decent suspension. Super trail/trial bike.