Dog Help.

[*william*]

Free dog, name Lucy. Boxer/mix. Good guard dog, but tempermental and given to fits of attack mode when uncalled for. A lover and big sweetheart deep down, but skiddish w/a mean streak. Needs quiet, routine home to be unchallenged Alpha female. Strong owner required to wrestle down and unclamp teeth from other dogs/owner.

:ugg:

I can't make this stuff up. Ever been bitten by a dog? Damn it hurts! :debil:

We've had the same two dogs for the last 4 years. Got them from the pound as puppies and they've grown up together. I treat my animals like part of the family, I never hurt them. Neither is quite sure which who is top dog (beside me). So every once in a while something or someone will set off the boxer/mix who takes it out on our poor aussie who must fight back for her life. This had been a decreasing occurance in the last couple years, but this last fight was nasty. Left my hand with four puncture wounds and a mangled pinky with 8 stiches.

The roto-tiller died (no compression) and I went and rented one. Stupid me, I fire it up, throw open the gate and charge in, scaring Lucy who goes off on the other dog. I wrestle both dogs to the ground with a fist of collar and fur in each hand. I slipped once and my hand gets mangled. I grabbed again and then must let go to remove dog paw from other dog mouth. I get a good bite in the gut. I grab for collars again, get a good hold and pin each dog's head under a knee while forcing snapping teeth into freshly roto'ed dirt. Wife and daugher scream while I bleed and curse. I had to separate the dogs for the rest of the day. Everything's okay this AM, they're best buddies again.

What gives? I could put up with the occasional disagreement when it was just the two of us but now I don't want my little girl caught in the middle. :|

And I don't want to give up on the dog. I really don't want to have to let her go... :whiner:

Any ideas?

 

[Rooster]

In my experience, this is a bad thing, that most likely won't go away. Sounds like a bit of leadership/rank establishing going on here. Instinct. My Chow mix is getting the same way, growling and attacking other dogs. She used to love it when there were other dogs to play with. She used to never mind anything including the trips to the vet. Now she must be sedated BEFORE I take her in, to keep her from eating another intern. (yes, she had a rather nice intern steak last time in, nothing some stitches couldn't fix, but scary as heck nonetheless)

Perhaps in your case, a nice home in a rural setting with no others dogs would calm yours will get in a better mood, not having to establish any sort of rank.

My biggest fear is that a kid will stroll onto the property with her/his dog, and the fight that will occur could possibly hurt the child.

 

[Kaw_Boy_5]

A shock collar may give you the upper hand in any of these disagreements you have. They sound mean but dog's figure them out quickly and learn not to mess around.

 

[gospeedracer]

Oh man, do I ever feel your pain.......literally. TTRGuy found a little dog in the woods on a ride about a year and a half ago and we brought her home making the dog tally 3. She was super sweet, a real lover but she loved attention so much that she didn't want the other 2 to get any of it. :ugg: The 3 of them were prone to fighting as well.
Picture a 70lb German Shephard (Lucy), a Pug (Puglsee) and a 30lb shepard/cattle dog mix (Kennedy) all over eachother. TTRGuy and I had to fling ourselves into the melee many times. Fight starts, pry Pug off off Lucy's flank, wrestle Kennedy and Lucy apart, pry Pug out of Lucy's mouth, after she drops to the ground then pry pug off off Kennedy, pry pug out of Kennedy's mouth, drops to the ground again, then pry pug off MY knee!! Both of us suffered some minor injuries as a result.
We just recently took Kennedy to a "No Kill" Sanctuary in the country. It was a really nice place and I have no doubt she will get adopted, hopefully to a family without any other dogs.
Sometimes dogs will work things out themselves. I've seen dogs scrap with no interference and it's over before you know it then they go about their business. I couldn't do that in our case since none of them were equally matched, but have you ever tried to see if they would just stop on their own? Are either one of them fearful of water? If so, having the hose handy will help in splitting them up if they don't quit on their own.
I can understand not wanting to give up a pet, especially since you've had them for so long. If it were me and the fights were few and far between I would probably just deal with it, but like you mentioned having a kid complicates the situation. If anything were to happend to your child as a result of the dogs fighting I imagine the guilt would be overwhelming as well as the fact you could be in a lot of trouble. :(

 

[*william*]

The stitches are barely holding my finger together- it's all bloated and infected. :eek:

If anyone says how "clean dogs mouths are" call their BS. Thank God for antibiotics and vicodin.

GSR, what's funny is that in our case it's an Australian cattledog/mutt that is the victim - poor dog doesn't know what hit her half the time. It the Boxer/mutt that's the perpetrator. She's got all the good quailties of a Boxer, but has a nervous/skiddish side, like a Chow temperment, exactly as Rooster was saying. I've never wanted a Chow specifically for that reason. She dosen't look like she's got any Chow at all...

I'm afraid to think how things would turn out if I wasn't to break it up. It's like Lucy's locked in "kill" mode. Pretty scary, she'll chase Pepper down and kick her ass if she gets away. :ugg:

I read how to adress this problem if the dog is being agressive toward the owner, but not other members of the "pack." Like you said, I could put up with the occasional brawl when it was just us two, but now I've got a little 2½ foot person to look out for.

We're going in for shots soon and we'll talk to the vet, he's a good guy. I even be willing to medicate the poor dog rather than give her up. As weird as it sounds, I don't think she would do well away from us or the other dog - I could see how it could make her more insecure and liable to go off. :ugg:

 

[longtime]

William -- don't think I say this cavalierly. I'm an animal lover. Heck, against what I always said, I am incurring huge debts to keep my mutt alive through chemo right now. But there's one very hard, very fast rule: if the dog bites a human (other than an intruder), put it down or at least get rid of it. My nephew has 325 stitches in his face, and is scared of his own shadow, let alone animals, after being mauled by a dog that HAD ALREADY BITTEN SOMEBODY BEFORE. The inescapable fact is: dogs that have bitten humans before are more likely to do so again.

I say do yourself, and your poor cattledog mix, a HUGE favor, and get rid of the boxer mix that's got a bad attitude.

BTW -- heaven forbid of that dog now bites somebody else or their pet -- you'll be liable because you "know better."

Good luck. Not meaning to be hardcore. But there are lots of other wonderful animals who need good homes, too. Might give one of those a chance, instead.

 

[70 marlin]

ditto with long time! bitten once shame on him, bitten twice, shame on you. do your self a favor, put it down. don't compound the problem by giving it to someone else. "I have three dog's and love them all"

 

[LoriKTM]

*william*, please check this link HERE

It sounds very similar to your situation, and may be helpful. I've heard of other situations of female-female dog aggression, and it seems like the only recourse is to get rid of the dog, or completely separate the two.

You may want to talk to your vet about gettting some help from an animal behaviorist.

Good luck!

I can imagine it would be very hard to give up a dog that you've had since a puppy. When we wanted a dog, we wanted to do the "right" thing, so went down to the animal shelter, and found one, a cute collie/shepard mix only a year old. The dog was kind of shy, but seemed to be ok. That was on a Friday. We went through hell on Saturday and Sunday. The dog was possessive, aggressive, and out of control. After being bitten three times on my hand, I took the dog back to the shelter on Monday. I did extensive research on dog behavior after that, and before we ever looked at another dog.

 

[Crispy]

I have an Australian Cattle dog too, greatest dog in the world. But have you ever noticed what great actors they can be? Dixie (my Aussie) will play all day long with other dogs but after a while, she gets a bit, well... testy. I have seen her take on Okies dog and several other dogs twice her size, but you can tell shes instigating it all. Its like a brother and sister... the small (younger) one will instigate the other bigger (older) one to do something and then act like the the bigger dog started it when mom and dad come running. Anyway, my point is this... I watch Dixie pick a fight and play like shes the victim. Have you ever been able to watch them right before one of these fights break out? Dixie has never bitten anyone, not even the other dogs, but I wonder if shes provoking the other dog in any way. If not, then I hate to say it, but I have to agree that maybe its time to put Lucy down.
Good luck.

 

[Cycledelic Neophyte]

William,

We had the same problem with our two female littermates. The first few years were fine and then it started. It progressively got worse. Jim and I have both been bitten, but by which one I'm not sure. They were not intending to bite us but when you try to pry two fighting dogs apart there's no guarantee that you will not get bit. They are trying to get at each other and your body appendages are getting their way as you try to pry apart. I have found that when dog fights are that bad the spraying water trick has no effect. It just makes more of a mess when it mixes with all the blood, saliva
and hair. The best way not to get bit is to not get in the middle of it. We have tried break them apart with brooms, stools, chairs etc..., If you have two people working together you can maybe pull them apart but its' hard with all the chaos going on. Remember they are now in animal instinct mode.

For a while we were going to a "doggie psychologist" (animal behaviorist). After a while it got better, you have to keep up with the training and consistency. We got lax with working with them consistently and every once in a while they would fight again. About 2 1/2 years ago one of the dogs died. We still have the possessive "I don't like any other dogs" dog but she's a sweet as can be with people. About 2 years ago we got a male dog. You could tell he wanted to be the dominant one, so we got him neutered and if the female gets crabby with him he usually backs down. I've heard that two females dogs are more likely to fight than a male and a female. The more times the fighting occurs and more likely it's going to happen again.

I really feel for you. We really get attached to our dogs. It's very upsetting when they fight. Then there's the cleanup. First figure out which one is actually bleeding and which one just has residue blood on it's fur. Clean all wounds on animals and people. Then clean up blood from carpet, walls, floor, tables, chair legs etc...

Also you're right, dogs mouths are not as clean people may think. Make sure you clean their wounds up real good. We think the one dog died because a wound in her neck healed up on the outside but was infected on the inside and cause major complications internally. There were no signs that she didn't feel well either.

Since you have a child the best bet would be to find another home for the aggressive dog. I still have mine, but we don't have children. Your dog sounds much like ours. She also is insecure, but she loves people and I think if you found a home with lots of love and attention and without any other animals she might do okay. If you are not ready for that yet, I would suggest going to an animal behaviorist.

Good Luck.

BTW - The rototiller set them off??? How about both dogs are sleeping and I turn the TV off cause it's time to go to bed. The click sound that the TV makes when I turn it off startles them and they jump up and get into it. Now I'm tired and want to go to bed but now I have to deal with this mess!

 

[Staley8]

Get rid of the aggressive dog. You have a kid around and there is no telling what that dog will do or what will set her off. If it tears your hand up just think what she could do to a small child. As soon as a dog bites a person that dog should be considered dangerous (I'm not talking like a little nip here, but if the dog is so out of control that you get mangled it is a different story). I'm sure it would be tough to give the dog up b/c you are so attached. Also, you probably realize that if you tell the truth when you give the dog to a shelter they would most likely have to put her down rather than risk giving the dog to someone else only to have them get bitten. That makes it tough as well.

Where I go riding sometimes there used to be a dog that killed the owners favorite cat...then the dog started biting everyone who would ride dirtbike. She nipped my calf and got a boot to the nose for it. But let's just say the owner had enough and that dog died a mysterious death due to "high velocity lead poisoning".

 

[*william*]

Well it happened again. 5 months later and nothing worked. They got into it last week and I broke it up. I tried to put them back together and Lucy went straight for it again. I got another two holes in the other hand and another round of antibiotics. When I broke it up the second time and got bit again I knew what I had to do. My baby girl is far more important and she started the whole thing with a handful of food. We got lucky for the last time.

I had her put down. I had to. But by law they have to hold dogs in quarintine for 10 days after a bite. She's a big baby who is used to the sofa and the heater and being warm and dry and pampered. I know she's so scared and cold and confused right now, and to be like that through her last days is just tearing me up. I told myself I would just walk away but I think I need to see her one more time, to cheer her up before the last day. I dunno.

I feel soo shi**y.

:whiner:

 

[Chili]

William as a dog lover myself I feel for you, however I have a basic rule with dogs and that is if they bite someone other than in a protection scenario then they have to go.

I think it would be harder on you to go back and see her one more time. Best of luck in this and I hope it is something you never have to deal with again.

 

[Okiewan]

You did what you had to do, there really wasn't any other way.

 

[Rooster]

Sad to hear this william. I read your post about her being in quarantine for her last days and about lost it (who am I kidding, I'm wiping away tears as I type this). I know how they become like family. I feel for you.

 

[JuliusPleaser]

I'm sorry it had to come to this, William. You did everything you could do, and then you did what you HAD to do. It wasn't your choice, though. Any time you start to feel like s***, just look at your daughter and know that you made the right call.

Why is it always so hard to do the right thing? :ugg:

 

[Patman]

Man that's hard. but it was necessary in this case it seems. I really does always seem the right thing is the hardest thing to do.

 

[XRpredator]

Even though I'm a dog disliker (not hater), and I treat her like the red-headed stepchild, the wife's yellow lab (read: small horse) still has unconditional love for me. I'd have a hard time if I had to put her down for those reasons.

But, sometimes it has to be done. :(

 

[IrishEKU]

william, I know at this time it is really rough for you. I have had a number of friends over the years and it is always rough to loose one. I have had 2 German Shepards(Nikita is still alive but with my folks now) and a couple of Begals(Rabbit dogs) and 3 cat's(Mom and Sis). The first time I had to deal with a death of a loved animal I was 8. Mittens was a 15 year old Maine Coon Cat, he was a mean son of a gun, no doubt because of Moose 95's and my efforts to play with him on the linoleum floor, but I still loved him and he loved us, when we were not trying to use him as said spin toy on the floor. I will never forget sitting with him, when he went. I cried like the child I was and couldn't understand a bit of life and death. At 7-8 years old you just don't understand things like that. As an adult it's harder because you know it's just a matter of time, and I dread it for Nikita, she is 8 now and I rejoice everytime I get to see her. But I always think of "Bonnie" a Beagle that we used for hunting any time I think of putting an animal down. Bonnie developed an unoperable tumor on here rear/right leg that was not operable, due to Moose's and my plaintive outbursts(I think we were 13 and 14 at the time) she stayed with us untill she couldnt hop through the opening of her run. By this time the tumor was the size od a soft ball and on a 13 inch Begal a considerable hinderance. Her eysight had deteriorated and she couldnt keep food down. (My Dad later told me that he had her to the Vet and had discovered that the cancer had spread to her stomach and eaten away at it.)
At this point Da decided it was time, he took Bonnie out one last time with a shovel, pistol and a pocket full of her favorite dog biscuts. I followed at a distance knowing what was coming with tears in my eyes. Da set a few down and let Bonnie much while he digged the hole and then placed a few in the hole and she readily went for them.

I won't finish but, I guess what I am trying to say is that we have all been there in one way or another and share your greif, but please don't stay away, you will want to remember your Pup happy to see you, not wondering where you are. Yes you will feel remorse for having to do it, but know this, you know that he/she went with you in his mind, not feeling abandonded and unwanted.

Phillip

 

[limitless]

man that sux soooo bad. you should have sent her to me though im sure you wouldnt like the way i train my dogs(the mean ones) i would have knocked that dog straight out for biteing me and it would probably take 4-5 times of gettin beat real hard for it to learn but she would have learned but i am a little late and sorry to here what happened, just remember that it was for the best as far as your kid because im almost positive she would have gotten bittin or maybe worse had you not done it.

 

[kev_rm]

Personally, that would only happen once to me.

Anyway, If you do just one thing, keep it in the yard or on a leash.

 

[firecracker22]

I am so sorry to hear that william. :(

I went through a lot with my dog--he is used to playing very aggressively and has knocked down several children. He loves children for some reason and an 80-lb big dog jumping on them freaks them out. He looks like a white wolf which doesn't help.

Sometimes the aggression cannot be trained out. Luckily Chugach's aggressiveness is entirely toward other animals--especially cats--but you can't stop him when he is in attack mode.

 

[Tony Eeds]

william - Sorry to hear about your situation. I have had a couple of similar experiences, one as a child and once as an adult.
You have made the correct decision. Once an animal has tasted blood, they become very unpredictable. Large animals compound the issue with their size.

Tony

 

[*william*]

Originally posted by limitless
...you should have sent her to me though im sure you wouldnt like the way i train my dogs(the mean ones) i would have knocked that dog straight out for biteing me and it would probably take 4-5 times of gettin beat real hard for it to learn but she would have learned...

That's why I had her put down. My fear of her being adopted and "gettin beat real hard" and mistreated by some idiot outweighed my guilty feeling of giving up on her. Thanks for the reassurance.

:debil:

I'm going to see her this week before she's put down.

:ugg:

 

[Rooster]

give her a doggy treat forme will ya? :(