downhills

The Ant · Jun 26, 2003

Well, between the attempts at Lower Cell Phone at the Ride School and a wonderful trail ride this past Sunday, I think I finally "get" how to do downhills... I know I know, everyone (thank you Randy, Nicole, Kerrie, Andrea) always says "get your feet on the pegs!" and in my brain I knew that, but starting over the lip of LCP, like hah, no way. But then there I am, left foot on the ground, all my weight on my handlebars, feeling like I'm ready to flip right over them, sliding and not having any fun...finally got them up, but still most of my weight was on my stiff arms/hands, which really doesn't work all that well, every last little blip in the trail sends you out of control.
So, paid more attention to "get your weight back" on Sunday's trail ride - what a difference! The final trick for me was to concentrate on keeping all my weight on my feet pushing backwards on the footpegs, and almost no weight on my hands - which obviously you can't do if one foot's dragging on the ground - and went down a bunch of steep, loose gravel in ruts, very challenging hills.... kept the handlebars pointed straight downhill, feathered both brakes, yippee, all went well!
And then, we were watching a tape of the 2002 ISDE in Chechoslovakia, and I got the final visual to cement everything, guys were coming down a set of muddy stone stairs, one guy comes down dragging one foot, all his weight plastered to his handlebars, obviously having trouble, the next guy weight back feet on pegs, goes fine.
This was like the perfect learning curve for me - personal demo bad, personal demo correct, visual demo!
Now to practice more...!!!
-Susan
BBR230

bbbom · Jun 27, 2003

Susan,

Somthing that helps me remember to keep my weight back is to concentrate on "keeping the front end light". In really nasty rocky shelf like downhills, I try to pull up on the handlebars when there is a sharp drop. I do the same on uphills on shelf like spots.

Mountain biking really helps you get the feel of keeping your weight back. I level out my pedals & stick my butt over the rear tire, tilting my heels slightly down & back on the pedals (with toe clips of course) and pull up on the bars when I need to. The best part is there is nothing but the frame to try to grip with your knees & that's nearly impossible.

KDXgirl · Jun 27, 2003

I find that getting my weight back is easy when going down hills cause being forward makes u stare down and u see the drop or hill worse than it really is so when I do that I am very quick to cower back!

Pegasus · Jun 29, 2003

Yea Susan !
Great when those light bulbs go on !
Most helpful thing I was told when first learning was feet on the pegs,go slow, use control and keep the wheels turning..helped keep me from locking up either either end to much.
You can come practice here !

cactusreid · Jul 1, 2003

I tell the gal's &kid's that I teach- to touch the rear fender with your butt. When you consciously do this it puts you back & low on the bike with your feet up on the pegs. You may fall off the side of the bike if it slides out from under you on a downhill,but you will never endo over the bars.It also gives you something to think about besides how steep the hill is.Once in a while(deep rutted downhill-do you have to drop your left foot to help stay balanced) but try this feetup/bum back method-it seems to help you
figure out were every thing needs to be on downhills.

CJ Rider · Jul 1, 2003

Hey Susan! Remember the bunch of us trying to get down big hill in Reno that first year? That was hillarious! I thought it looked a little smaller this year, didn't you? I'll bet it'll look even smaller next season with all this good training and practice we're getting, eh?

Will and I took a class earlier this spring to improve our skills on the dualsport bikes; 'turns out that hill technique is just the same, except a little more disconcerting with all that weight. To help us "understand the feel" of getting our weight back on those seemingly huge honking bikes, Jimmy Lewis had us first start with this controlled excercise where you just learn how far you can actually go before you bike flips over. In this pic, Will is at the balance point and Jimmy's only holding on to him with one finger practically.

CJ Rider · Jul 1, 2003

Here's me in the same predicament, except I squealed before I could reach my balance point so I didn't quite get there.

bbbom · Jul 1, 2003

CJ, is that you in the red coat next to Will?

That's my coat!!! :thumb:

CJ Rider · Jul 1, 2003

Then we took 'em out to some steep sand dunes and tried it out. Will kinda buried his bike in the loose stuff at the top, though. In this pic, Jimmy is railing up the dune instruct Will in the fine art of getting a BMW GS1150 unstuck; LOL!

CJ Rider · Jul 1, 2003

Hey bbbom! It's a very sweet read coat, but nope that's not me. Jimmy needed somebody a little more beefy than me to stand there just in case Will biffed!

bbbom · Jul 1, 2003

I couldn't tell, the perspective is a bit off since you don't normally see someone standing next to a bike with it's rear wheel 4 feet or more in the air!

I think I've followed Karl down some hills where it felt like my rear wheel was 4 feet in the air! If I remember right it was covered in snow at the time too. :think:

The Ant · Jul 1, 2003

Wow, those are some great photos, CJ! So you just came over the hill and slammed on your front brake? Amazing how far you can go without flipping over.
I remember the Moonrocks hill, but didn't make it back there this year - will have to make that a goal next year!

And Randy said I wasn't totally clear on just what my "aha" moment was - before when people would tell me to get my feet on the pegs and weight back, I did it in theory but didn't really commit, like I'd just set my feet up there and push myself back with my knees on the tank and still keeping most of my weight on my hands, which helped over dragging your feet on the ground, but the full aha(!) was when I concentrated on pushing my weight back from my feet on my footpegs, didn't even have that much weight on my seat, and hands/arms/handlebars were loose and light. Not only did that keep me from focussing my sight on my front tire - aack - but made my arms way less tired as well. And seriously kept my weight back, low, and front wheel light.
-Susan
BBR230

Fe_princess · Jul 7, 2003

Two questions:
1. CJ, how did you take the sand downhill then?
2. Susan, when you had your, aha!, how did your experience of going downhill change? Did you have more speed, use less back brake? I would love to hear it, really. Down hills are so intense sometimes...

HI LORI! :flame:

CJ Rider · Jul 7, 2003

Ant- Ooch, no, we didn't do a stoppie to get into that position; we achieved it slowly with help so as not to freak us out so much. :scream:

Fe_Princess- Two words… CONTROLLED SKID! Actually, we did a whole day of drills beforehand until my clutch hand fell off (felt like it). We locked up the front brake, the rear brake, controlled a skid to the left or right, and controlled the length of the skid all on flat land. Then, we practiced assuming the “downhill position” (above pics). THEN, we took it out to the dunes.
GOOD CLEAN FUN!!! :laugh: :yeehaw:

Fe_princess · Jul 7, 2003

How did you control the skid to the left and right?
How do you do it on a steep downhill?

CJ Rider · Jul 8, 2003

It's a weight shift and balance thing (which we practiced in small steps). For skidding left or right, ya lock up the rear and pretend you're turning either left or right. You apply more pressure to one peg or the other and shift your weight. Ya probably do this already without even thinking about it. If you practice doing it "on demand," then you can square off a corner using your skid any time ya want to. It's fun and comes in handy! 'Same weight shift and balance thing for downhill, only yer butt's way back.

The Ant · Jul 8, 2003

Will have to try that CJ, I've locked up my rear brake and skidded plenty of times, but it's never been under enough control to influence which side the rear tire comes around on!!!
FePrincess: Went to Boise this past weekend and got to practice lots more steep sand/gravel/rock downhills, first time would take them in 1st gear, skidding and sliding, next in 2nd, better, finally went down in 3rd - much smoother but also faster, which meant I couldn't have stopped midway if I'd needed to. Second gear felt like the best compromise for a first time hill. However, there were no trees to worry about, and you could see forever, which made it easier. Big erosion ditches now and then tho, and you always had to be careful when cresting a hill as there could be a cliff on the other side.
Found that going uphill in 3rd was better too, altho again, got bounced around more and felt in less control than in 2nd, but made the top with ooomph to spare....it was rocky enough we had to put the tire pressure up higher than I like, so more bounce.
-Susan
BBR230

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