First bike?

[mrbean]

Now, that I have a place to ride, I'm looking to get a bike. My answers to the big ten questions are as follows:

1) your physical size (both height and weight are important)
5'10" 170lbs

2) How physical / aggressive are you ?
Moderate. I won't be flying off jumps 20 ft. in the air, but I'll pop a quick wheelie or two once I'm comfortable with a particular bike.

3) what do you plan to ride- MX/SX tracks, woods, fields with friends or ?????
Woods and fields with my buddies. Maybe some mud bogging too.

4) Do you have any riding experience?
Yes, limited. Mostly street bikes.

5) Do you think you will race ?
No

6) Are you mechanically inclined and will you be doing your own bike work?
Yes! I'll do almost any repair myself.

7) Do YOU have a preferance to a brand/ motor choice (2 or 4 stroke)?
Would prefer Honda, Yamaha or other well known brand. Based on what I know about Kawasaki subway cars (yes, they make them too) I would not buy a Kawasaki bike unless someone can convince me otherwise.
I would prefer 4 strokes for more low end torque.

8) Do you have a dealer close by your home that you might use and what brand(s) does he carry?
Yes, Yamaha and Honda dealers are close by. But, I believe they sell other brands too.

9) How much ($) do you plan to spend on a bike?
Something used for $1000-$1500

10) Do you live in California?
No

11) Your age?
Wise enough not to get myself killed. Young enough to have good physical strength.

12) anything else that you think would help form an opinion
Looking for 125-250cc bike that is durable and easy to ride.


Many thanks in advance for your reccomendations

 

[GoldDrum]

A WR250 would be a good bike for trails and fields, but from everything I have read be very careful buying a 4 stroke bike under $2000. I believe it is because of use, but not sure. That would be a good size bike though in the 4 stroke bike.

 

[Patman]

XR250. It's a Honda, air cooled 4 stroke. PLENTY of options to upgrade as you progress. Nothing is going to be as "durable" and offer as much fun per dollar spent or hour turning wrenches. Should be able to find a good example in the upper end of your price range.

 

[GoldDrum]

True, that would probably be closer to that price range. I had a XR400 that was great and very reliable so the XR250 would probably be good.

 

[jb_dallas]

Yeah...you cant beat the XR for a beginner. At that price range, you will be limited. Be careful and know what you are looking for when you buy a bike or take someone who does. You can really get screwed buying in that range...trust me on that one.

 

[mrbean]

Thanks for all the replies.

I found this in the local classifieds:
1998 HONDA XR 250R, Lights, 6 Spd, Disc
Brakes, New Rear Tire, Low Hrs, Exc
Cond, $1,800 OBO.

I might consider going over my max $ if I can't haggle 'em down.
What do you think?

On a side note, I'm not hell bent on getting a 4-stroke, it's only a preference. So, if there's a 2 stroke you think would suit me well please let me know.

 

[Patman]

I think that's a bit high even for a really nice one. Look at maybe offering $ 1400 max.

As far as it being a "beginner bike" well... that's a pretty ill informed comment. It's a bike that could easily last a life time in term of both reliability and performance. Doing a little digging will easily prove up both of those comments.

 

[jb_dallas]

I agree that $1800 is too much for that bike. I recently paid $1800 for my 2001 XR400 that looked as if it had never seen dirt. The pegs, rotors, engine covers all had minimal wear. I think the 1998 XR250 is a $1200-$1300 bike.

As far as the beginner comment being "ill informed", as the owner of an XR400 and the former owner of several XRs and XLs, I completely disagree. As a rider's skill develops, they [normally] demand more performance. The lackluster suspension and low power of an XR250 would leave most experienced riders wanting more. If this comment were not true, we would all be discussing XR250s instead of CRF250s, CRF450s, YZ250s, YZ450s etc in the 4 stroke forums. My XR400 leaves me wanting more power and Im no A class rider. An XR250 is an excellent recommendation for now, but you will likely want better performance as your skills improve.

 

[Patman]

I guess Scott Summers was a beginner? Get a clue, like any bike there are modifications available to improve whatever flaws a bike might have. Can a XR250 compete with a CRF450? Sure no problem get on a nice set of trails and a rider with slightly better skill will spank the rider on the bigger and more powerful bike. As an owner of a modified XR250 that has better suspension and better power I stand by my comment of it being an "ill informed" statement. I went to this bike from a KTM 360 so I wouldn't exactly say I'm a beginner nor as fast as alot of folks but then again faster than others. Most people get the latest bikes NOT because of skill but because of desire to have something that is supposed to be faster no matter how it's justified in their head. Skill makes a bike faster up to a point and most riders switch bikes well before exceeding the ability of the bike they are on.

 

[Patman]

Just to add to the nanny-nanny-boo-boo factor I have no doubt that the same unbiased rider on my modified little underpowered beginner bike would turn faster lap times on an enduro or GNCC loop than if he were on say... a stock XR400. Bigger / newer / faster isn't always better, the ability of a bike that turns well (XR4 doesn't at all BTW) and has power that doesn't force a rider to work hard to be smooth will often create a faster lap time. Is an oil / air cooled bike as sexy as a new aluminum framed, water cooled, titanium valved "race" bike? Oh heck no.

If all it took for Joe Blow to be faster was for him to get a bigger / newer / faster bike don't you think we'd see more competition for the podium in the professional ranks? Why don't we see CRF1000's? There's is no local fast guy (no matter where you live) that is going to contend for the podium at a national event if he rides a 450 in the lites class. Why? Skill.

 

[jb_dallas]

Hmm...and you think this kid with a $1000 budget is going to modifiy that XR250 just like yours? What about all of your modifications....how much money do you think you have in that old XR250? I hope you plan on keeping it for a while. Today, I can get what I paid (or very close) for my XR400 when I bought it. Can you say the same about your modded out 250?

I dont disagree about a better rider on a XR250 vs a not so great rider on a CRF450...I dont recall stating anything to the contrary.

 

[Patman]

He doesn't need to modify it today. That's part of the beauty of it he can improve it as he improves or needs more something.

I know exactly how much I have in my bike and I never looked at any toy I've ever had as any kind of investment. I've got less than the cost of a new CRF250X in it that's for sure. As an added bonus it takes way less dollars to keep it maintained. I've thought about selling it off and on just to build something else, I just never do because it really is that good. Anybody that's ridden it thinks the same. See toys are just that, way different than flip this house.

Let's perhaps read the second parahraph here and see if it might open your eyes.
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/08june01modified2001drz250.html So even if it's the SAME skill level of rider, even if it's a multi-time GNCC skill level rider... :laugh:

 

[Patman]

I dont disagree about a better rider on a XR250 vs a not so great rider on a CRF450...I dont recall stating anything to the contrary.

:think: I don't recall stating a big difference in skills. Perhaps go read my posts a bit slower.

...a rider with slightly better skill will spank the rider on the bigger and more powerful bike

So now back to the original poster...

 

[jb_dallas]

That is some good reading and not especially shocking to me. I know my stock XR400 is not particularly light weight, so I can see a heavily modified XR250/280 being more nimble and quicker through thick woods. The disclaimer here is "tight, woods riding". If you ride a little bit of everything, as I tend to, the advantage of the more nimble, lower powered bike exponentially decreases. As you can read above, my comments were based on a stock XR250, not a heavily modified (and expensive) XR280.
I will stand by my comment as an XR250 (you notice I didnt say XR280) as a beginners bike.

We can agree to disagree. XRs are great bikes. Power to you and your heavily modded XR280. With that being said, I am done with this pissing contest and on to the next thread.

Good Day

 

[Patman]

I can agree to disagree and stand by the fact that a light bore and pipe on an XR250 is not what most folks would call "heavily modified" :laugh: A little more history is that Scott Summers actually wanted to race the XR250 instead of the XR600 but Honda insisted on the XR600 as that is not the image they wanted for the XR250.

So mrbean as you can see there are many opinions on many things. The biggest mistake most riders will make when looking for a bike is to think they "need" something that is race ready when in fact they need to learn how to ride better. Generally learning to ride better is a process that can be started on most any bike but learning to ride properly with the skill to apply power, brakes and weight transitions for turning is generally better learned on a bike that makes those things easier. As your ability increases you can easy make some noticable performance improvement to the bike you are already comfortable on for almost no expense. When you want even more power a 277cc bore kit is around $200 and the labor to bore the cylinder might run $100-$150 and you will have a significantly more peppy ride. If you want even more that's pretty easily accomplished as well, it's documented here on DRN if you look.

So see if you can get that bike for no more than $1400 and start to have fun knowing you have a bike that can easily grow with you pretty much no matter how fast you ever think you are.

 

[jb_dallas]

Actually, I couldnt agree more on the second paragraph. You will notice that I almost always suggest a smaller bike for the inexperienced and I am constantly met with opposition. My favorite is one of the members on this site telling a beginner to buy a CR500....and another member recommended a YZ450F for a beginner on the trail...nice. Ok, I am done now.

 

[mrbean]

I never thought you guys would have such strong opinions about the bike I get . . . . I'm flattered.

Just to clarify a few things:
-I'm not a kid. It's been many years since someone has called me one.
-I'm not a complete newbie to riding. I just don't do it often, especially offroad/dirt.
-Yes, I do need to learn to ride better.
-I've shopped around and can't find any bikes as cheap as what you guys say I should be paying. I live in central NJ, so everything is a little more expensive than most other parts of the country (even used bikes apparently).

On another note:
What's the difference(s) between a trail bike and a MX? Specifically, how are they different in terms of suspension, gear ratios, torque curve, handling, etc?
I'm planning on getting a trail bike but was just curious.

Thanks again.

 

[jb_dallas]

The differences between a trail and MX bike have been discussed extensively on this forum. If you do some searches, you should find all of the information you are looking for.

The short of it is that MX bikes are set up for motocross racing. Many manufacturers, such as Honda and Yamaha, manufacture a trail 250/450 and a MX 250/450. For example, the Honda trail bike model is a CRF250X, the MX model is a CRF250R.

In the world of MX 4 strokes:
1) They are generally lighter than their trail counterparts.
2) They have snappy acceleration and more peaky power than the trail bike.
3) Their transmissions have close range gearing for racing and their first gear is generally tall for getting out of the gate.
4) They have stiffer suspension for absorbing big hits from large jumps.
5) They have small gas tanks, because there is no reason for long trips. The bikes are designed to be ridden on tracks, so you arent going far.
6) MX bikes are generally higher maintenance than their trail counterparts.

Im sure the list could go on, but that is a general summary. For the reasons above, a MX bike is not ideal for the trial. I ride a YZ400F (1st generation MX 4 stroke) on the trail, so I aware of their faults. There are ways around some of their faults, for example, I have an oversized gas tank, which eliminates #5. You can also set up the suspension to be softer, which helps with #4. The most important point that is difficult to work around is the close range transmission, which is not good for the trail. Because many MX bikes are geared so tall in 1st and have lighter cooling systems, they tend to overheat when riding tight trails. I run a super coolant and have a Trail Tech computer that provides engine temp, so I can keep an eye on the temperature. With all of that being said, I have a blast riding the YZ.

If you are going to ride trails, buy a trail bike, not an MX bike.

 

[mrbean]

Thank you. Very informative.