gas gas 250/300 EC

[kevan]

hi.....
I am about 2 buy a 2002 250 or 300
question regarding power delivery.......
they both peak at about the same bhp,but how would the power delivery be best discribed.....just come from a wr400 thumper
so I,m looking for a exiteing power delivery .....
just useing the bike for general trail ridin.....but i did like the
2nd/3rd gear power wheelies of the yamaha
thanx

 

[Girlrider]

I have ridden both but own a 250 which I prefer. The 300 is strong on the bottom but flattens out on power in mid to high. I weigh 120 lbs so if you are over 200 lbs I would go with the 300. My husband is 6' tall and 170 lbs and also likes the 250 best. 3rd Gear wheelies are easy on the 250. Good Luck and enjoy

 

[kevan]

gasgas

bird on a bike..cool.!!!!!
thanx for reply....

I,m about 11 stone...not sure what that is in lbs as i,m metricated in the U.K.
would you discribe the 300's power as unexiteing????
i do prefer the red one as i,ve had yam's for a while.......

 

[euro gasgas]

Hi Kev,
The first thing you should know is that the 300's that you get in the U.K. are different from those available here in the U.S. Compared to the American xc300 available here in the U.S, the european ec300 has lighting, a higher output lighting coil, a heavier flywheel, slightly increased compression, and a different pipe and silencer.

The fmf pipe that comes on the U.S. model is an fmf gnarly pipe - this pipe focuses on low end power delivery at the expense of top end output. The stock pipe on the euro ec300 is a messico - I would describe this pipe as a mid/top pipe, more similar to the aftermarket motowest pipe that is available in the u.s.

My impression riding my bike with the fmf pipe is that it pulls very hard and strong on the bottom but does "flatten out on power in mid to high" as girlrider stated. I had previously ridden my bike with the stock messico pipe installed (it is a euro spec ec300) - the bike would rev out on top and had more mid to top acceleration. I installed the fmf and rode it for a while and then recently switched to the american made motowest pipe. The bike still has *plenty* on bottom, but now pulls strongly through mid and pulls into the high end. The "excitement" is back, it is no longer "sleepy" on top and I didn't have any trouble stalling the bike in tight, technical terrain.

Please note that I am running the LTR power valve cover and LTR jetting. I think the LTR power valve cover complements the motowest pipe well. The higher volume power valve cover complements the bottom end power while the motowest pipe focuses on boosting mid-top power. The result is a very smooth and strong powerband.

The silencer is also different between the U.S. and euro models. The U.S. model comes with either a turbine core or racing fmf silencer. Most come with the turbine core. This incorporates a U.S. Forest Service approved krizman style spark arrestor. The stock euro silencer is longer and is less restrictive than the fmf silencer used in the U.S (most likely girlrider rode one with a spark arrestor). Seat of the pants feel is that it is very responsive with the stock euro silencer and it is also *very* quiet. I like it alot and wish it was available from the manufacturer with a U.S. approved spark arrestor.

Another difference between the U.S. models and euro models is the compression - in the u.s. a motocross head with higher compression is installed. Boosting compression will typically move power lower in the powerband at the expense of top end delivery. Many folks here in the U.S. order the 300 with the EC head that will come on your euro model ec (otherwise the distributor recommends the use of race fuel), some also request a flywheel weight to smooth power delivery.

The other thing you need to know is the difference between the 250 and 300 gasgas models. The 300 is a detuned 250 motor - the 250 has the holes in the crank stuff which boosts the "excitement of the motor". The 300 also comes with a reed spacer that smooths and softens power delivery. A rider can easily remove the reed spacer to get more snap out of the 300 motor. In general, racers and adrenaline junkies tend to lean towards the 250 (maybe because it is red!).

So, your original question was "would you describe the 300s power as unexciting?". The answer in either case (whether u.s. or euro gasgas) - the euro gasgas is a bit more exciting than the u.s. model due to the choice of pipe and silencer (and the laws in the u.s. dictating what the silencer should do). If you desire even greater excitement - pull out the reed spacer.

jeff
'01 gasgas ec300

 

[GlennP]

I went with the 250 because of my dislike of my KTM300. The KTM had "too much too soon" for the tight woods. I always felt like I was fighting the bike, and it wore me out before the end of an enduro. The GG 300 is not like that however, much more civilized in the midrange. The 250 is softer on the bottom, but still has plenty, more midrange hit(not bad), and revs out well. I never raced a GG300, just tried one on a trail ride (EC300), but the 250 power suits me well for 60+ mile rides. My 250 is set up with an EC head and 10 oz flywheel weight, but I run the FMF pipe, where you guys get the Messico. (See Jeff's comments about pipes).

 

[sharp]

I agree w/Glennp. I went from a KTM 300 to a GG 250 XC. The 250 has been very kind to me as long as I don't accidently grab a hand full in some tight stuff. I weigh in at 240# ( probably should be on a John Deer) and the bike hauls me around effortlessly. I have a LTR jet kit installed and the front end will come up in forth gear. I would probably have enjoyed the 300 better for my size and skill level but I think the 250 is more diversified(IMO). I do not run a flywheel weight and have no problems stalling, since installing the LTR kit, in tight stuff unless I do something stupid.

 

[kevan]

thanks people

gettin a mental picture of engines now,
over here gasgas's,second hand value is not good... as in like a falling brick
everything on the net says GET ONE!!!
but the price with ohlins forks is very near ktm 520 money.....
are the forks worth the extra bucks.about 1000$ in your money
and are there any known weaknesses for me to watch out for
in the u.k. i,ve heard there are issuses with fit&finnish
pipes fouling feul tank,shock mounts cracking.......
may be gettin a bit paroniod but $7000 is a ****load of money to spend on
a 2 stroke........just want to get everything straight in my head before
parting with a bucket load of foldin

 

[kevan]

lt racing

been in touch with them about powervalve cover and jetting kit
would the jetting kit be comparable to u.k. conditions.....i.e. rain mud rain mud rain...temps between 7c winter/21c summer.....forgot to ask....
bloody expensive on the phone to U.S. of A...!!!!!!!!!!

 

[euro gasgas]

Related to LTR jetting - my bike was initially jetted at around 75 degrees and I went riding last weekend in 45 degree F temps and very rainy weather. i.e. the weather here in the northwest u.s. is very similar to the u.k. and the LTR jetting should be "spot on".

 

[euro gasgas]

Wow Kev - a proverbial "shotgun blast" of questions.

1. GasGas Resale Value : Here in the U.S. the resale value hasn't been great either - but it is improving quickly as the bikes get widespread acceptance and better exposure in the market. Older gasgas models do differ from the newer ones (marzochi forks instead of WP or ohlins, etc.). My friends had a similar impression of their ktm's and resale 6 or 7 years ago...

2. Whether the ohlins forks are worth the extra money depends on whether they are worth it to you personally. The design of the WP and Ohlins fork is very similar - the ohlins are of better quality. I would expect the price difference to be around $700.00 here in the U.S. - not sure what taxes/duties you pay there - here we pay none on off-road motorcycles.

For me, it was worth the money as my wife wouldn't have let me buy the bike if it didn't have ohlins forks. I had ordered a set in '94-'95 when trying to build a bike and qualify for the isde team here in the u.s. - they were backordered forever. My wife was calling sweden to try to get them sent direct. When we had our "date night" a few months back - I said "I want to buy a gasgas". Her response, "we really can't afford it right now - why?". I answered "I can get it with ohlins forks". She paused for a moment and then said "Okay".

I think you can be happy with either - the valving is probably better on the ohlins "out of the box". To work well - both need to be revalved to have the mid-valve disabled (they both have one).

3. Fit and Finish. I think many of the problems here are "teething problems" - they set up a new factory recently to meet the increased demand for the bikes. But I would still keep an eye on the pipe mounts, clearance between pipe and radiators etc. They have packed things in pretty tight to give a very centralized center of gravity with a decent amount of fuel capacity.

jeff

 

[kevan]

Just got back from bike show and

have seen all gassers 2002 range
250 supermoto is simply STUNNING........
got a digital pic if any interest..........
spoke to the importer's main man,voiced concerns
regarding reliabilty/warranty.......he said all gearbox gremlins have now been
banished following 2002 mod's.any issues regarding engine components
in or out of the warranty period would be treated very simpatheticly
re re sale they where fully aware of past issues afecting resale and
intend too improve/and moniter build quaity at new factory
re ohlins f/r forks & shock.....was told these have much harsher "base " settings and are aimed at competition use....for gen trail riding.....
WP is the recommended setup.
did notice finnish on frame varied a great deal,even on show bikes
don't no if this info is of any help to anybody else who may be about too get
one .....but made my mind up...........
GAS GAS 300EC will, all being well be gleaming in my garage next THURS
can't wait!!!!!!!!

 

[MR.WR]

Good choice! Enjoy your new bike:)

Rick