Have 02 GG 250 thinking of changing to CRFX want your opinions PLEASE

[motorhead434]

2 strokes rule for power to weight/cost!

Who is this euro gasgas guy ? I like'em!Personaly I cant wait for this 4 stroke hysteria to die down,I'm old school 2-smokes are for racers 4 strks are for playbikes.Why would I want to race a bike that is heavier-slower(cc for cc)-higher maintanence-more complicated,and therefore more EXPENSIVE TOO MAINTAIN?just my .02 grew up on 2strks,dont like treehuggin greenies tellin me I cant ride a 2-smoke when I get passed everday on highway by a blacksmoke belching diesal.

 

[euro gasgas]

I stand corrected - the ohlins forks are no longer available as an option on the gasgas. But, as I said, the zokes are good forks and Les at LTR makes em magical.

And, by the way, the ohlins on the rear of the gasgas is superior to the showa on the rear of the CRF250X. Period.

- jeff

 

[Magellan]

Similar boat

Euro GG, I have a questions for you. I currently ride a TTR250, which I would put in the same calss as the XR200 (maybe not yours, but stock they are similar).

I want to move up to something more competitive. Primarily, I want something that feels lighter and turns quicker. I have been considering switching to a 2 stroke, probably a GG or KTM (300 EXC), maybe a KDX (low price and Fredette seems to do ok on them).

I recently rode a YZF250 and liked it quite a bit, but have concerns over the increased maintenance and noise of a high-perf 4 stroke.

Seeing as how you have ridden XRs for a while, but also have a woods 2S, do you have any opinions on going from a 4S to a 2S? If you could only have one bike, which would it be?

I mostly ride the local areas, but am running as many of the enduros put on by nma as I can

I'm also in Portland and also have a trials bike. Maybe we can hook up to ride some time.

 

[cjKTM]

I won't get into the HP chart issue, I already knew the answer. I think you know that I was talking about real usable power in the woods. The people that rode mine are surprised how powerful it feels compared to the numbers. I've always said that most people can't use half the power they have. Oh and believe me, I'm too old to go for the shiny aluminum theory. If was younger and/or had more time to ride, I probably would be on a 2 stroke euro bike. Right now I'm able to afford it, so I'm tryin' everything. I certainly wasn't trying to down Gas Gas because I may own one. I can get it for nearly cost but the down side around here is resale value and when you sell as often as I do, I'm a bit wary. I previously had a VOR and took a beating when I sold it(I also took a beating from the forks but I won't go there). I agree with some of the other comments about lightweight, maint free 2 strokes although a YZF is about as maintenance free as they come(I had one of those also) especially if you ride a lot and/or don't like to work on your bike. And about the dealer, we believe they didn't ship his bikes because he ordered just before the price increase and they were trying to get the new price after the fact. They supposedly ran out of 300's and wound up sending 250's with 300 kits instead

 

[euro gasgas]

Magellan,
If I could only have one bike in the stable (and I couldn't throw tons of money at an XR) -> The gasgas 300 hands down. Why?

1. It has a very flat torque curve and a very linear hp curve. The ktm doesn't share this trait and has a dip and hit in the middle. This makes the gasgas easier to ride and less fatiguing on the trail. It is easy to adapt to coming from a 4 stroke. The friendly and efficient power make it hook up and deliver with good control when the trails get slimey. It is a 2 stroke - but delivers with efficiency like a 4 stroke.

2. Linkage style rear suspension. Sorry, but I think it works better all around - soft over the roots and rocks up in the tillamook burn trails and firms up over the whoops.

3. It carries the weight really well, has relatively tight steering geometry and is "flickable". I prefer quick steering to stability - it is stable and it turns too. I like how the chassis fits me.

4. It is stone cold reliable.

5. Oodles of torque make it a very fun ride.

6. I added a yz yamaha kickstarter and an LTR jetting kit and it is really easy to start - one kick start.

You are welcome to take my 300 for test ride. Wouldn't mind hooking up to do some trials riding too - I am just getting started and need a riding partner. I am busy saturday but may be able to go out sunday. I usually start out from Roger's Camp in the tillamook burn. Send me a PM.

- jeff

 

[cjKTM]

I haven't had the chance to ride a 300 GG but another buddy has a new KTM 250 and it is so smooth and hitless that it felt slow. He was one of the guys that though my bike had close to the same power. I agree about the older KTM's. I had a 250 and 300 that had the hit which beat me up in a race. I also am one of those that couldn't come to terms with the PDS and thats why I quit a few years ago. I breathed orange from 1977 to '01. I will say that I'm really impressed with them now and may end up back on one. I have heard that the '05s have less hit than GasGas? but the 250 I rode handled way better than the last '01 that I owned.

 

[euro gasgas]

Me personally, I don't like the PDS; And a friend of mine is a suspension tuner who is up to his ears in '05 ktm suspension right now; They change it every year and never quite get it right - this year they are overdamped and undersprung. Once set up they are okay - I still like the chassis and steering on the gasgas better;

In tight woods I feel like the gasgas is a "surgical instrument" and the ktm is a "blunt instrument". It's hard to explain, I feel like I am "riding" the gasgas; In comparison, when I hop on a ktm I feel like I am "riding on top of it". Even though the gasgas is a little heavier (especially the EC which comes nearly street legal), it feels light because it carries the weight very low and centralized.

Another nice thing about getting a gasgas is that the EC gasgas models are street legal in europe - to import them into the u.s. they just pull the turn signals off. If you live in a state where it is easy to get a plate - just bolt on turn signals - the wires are right there. Comes with horn, front and rear brake lights, hi-lo headlight, turn signal switch, rear fender extension with brake/tail light. I heard the newer bikes will all be in DE configuration by default this year (lighter and more GNCC race-able out of the box). Both configurations still give you a wide ratio six speed tranny.

On the downside, the gasgas is set up to fit a smaller rider. Some call it a 7/8ths sized bike. You used to have to buy a BRP top triple clamp to get more room in the cockpit. The last couple of years gasgas models have two mounting holes for the bar clamps - one further forward, there are also shims to adjust the height of the bar clamps. So, on newer gasgas models, tall seat foam and a good bar is all a taller rider needs (and sometimes pegs, but it is personal preference).

Another negative point on the gasgas is that there are two parts on the gasgas that don't hold up well - the kickstarter and the shifter. They use the same kickstarter as their trials models. It is very short and wears out very quickly. Replace it with one off of a pampera model (longer and steel) or a yz kickstarter bolts right on (identical splines and everything - looks like it was made for the bike). The tip on the shifter gets sloppy - but they are inexpensive to replace (around $35) - some will insert a steel bushing in the tip as a fix. Other than these minor "nits" - it is completely bulletproof.

On the issue of resale, all "exotic" bikes take a little longer to sell. First off, you have to have a sophisticated buyer - which the majority of the market isn't. It seems the best way to sell a used gasgas is to simply let a friend ride it for a bit and fall in love with it.

KTMs were in the same boat not that long ago when it came time to sell the bike. Magazine coverage and marketing have made the issue go away. The gasgas'ers are getting very good magazine coverage these days and its "exotic" label will fade away. In europe, gasgas is #2 behind ktm, and are relatively close in sales - I think they sell nearly 10000 bikes a year in france. They'll catch up in the U.S. too, this year will be a good year for gasgas. Good magazine coverage - good race results (a national enduro win), the enduro line is further refined and this is the year to buy for the updated 450 four stroke - it is lighter this year, all the bugs are worked out and it is rock solid. They have been confidently running the gasgas 450 in 24 hour endurance races in europe and doing very well. Look for them to do well at this years International Six Day Enduro.

- jeff

 

[cjKTM]

Well said. By the way, the national win was the guy I've been talking about.

 

[Hawaii-Rider]

CRF-250R snags 2d at WORCS

;)
http://www.cyclenews.com/ShowStory.asp?HeadlineID=7298

Long race, in the dust, hmmmmm

:)

HR
:cool:

 

[euro gasgas]

A Worcs pro race is two hours long.

- jeff

 

[cactusreid]

cjKTM: can you enlighten us to what the rest of the baja story of the honda x's is. so far all i've heard is none of them finished. were they 250x or 450x's? Down there I can see a 250 4stroke of any brand having a very tough time finishing that race! The 450's on the other hand should be up to the task of the baja 1000. I've riden down there a couple of times and it's very demanding on your bike. I ride a 610 husky down there with a long stroke old style 4 stroke motor with ton's of torque. The new wave of high rev/super short stroke 4 strokes seem to have a tougher time in baja type conditions. Back to our regular programing.

 

[cjKTM]

Sorry, but I don't pay much attention to Baja. If I did, I would be on a euro 450 or bigger. The X is for the tight stuff and my guess is that the 450X wouldn't hold up that well either in that environment either.

 

[tecatetim]

There were a couple crfx250's that raced the Baja 1000 in '04. Neither of them finished.

I feel the 250X is a good bike and raced one at the '05 San Felipe 250 race.
Pro-Circuit did some head mods/valves for us.
I bet we pushed that X harder than the DNF X's at the 1000 due to the super deep sand washes in Felipe (opposed to mainly hardpack at the 1000). The thing was literally on the rev-limiter for minutes at a time and worked perfectly.
Measured the valves post-race and they were perfect.
Disassembled the top-end post-race and it all looks perfect.

We'll try a longer high speed race soon and learn more.

The 250x BTW won the 250 Pro class in San Felipe and was 5th Overall, only 2 minutes out of 4th OA. All bikes ahead were Opens (3 xr650r and a ktm 525). The next 2 Pro 250's were 15 and 25 minutes farther back and they were yz250 2 strokes. I wish it was AMA rules....the 250 4-stroke beat the 250 2-strokes.....kinda like getting beat by a 125 in a desert race.

There haven't yet been any 450X's racing in Baja since they just came out. I think they'll work great down there.

With how good bikes are nowdays it's not too tough for a bike to finish a long Baja race.
Years back when i raced more we finished 9th overall, 1st 125cc, on a KX125 in a Baja 1000 that was 1100 miles long. After that the bike got raced in BtoV and a couple National H&H's with only oil and air filter changes. Still ran fine.