help, stripped threads on oil drain plug

[skycotic101]

stripped the threads on my sons kx65 (oil drain plug). any ideas on what i need to do to stop the slow drip that is building up on my garage floor? :bang:

 

[flounder]

Drain it and re-tap it if you want to do it right.
You could probably use silicone or similar if you want to half ass it.

Its only going to get worse every time you change the oil unless you fix it right.

 

[skycotic101]

I understand there are some self tapping screws. Is this what u mean or do i have to take it to a shop? :think:

 

[flounder]

There are self tapping screws but I dont know if there is one the size that you need it or potentially even a self tapping drain plug. I was referring to a tap and die kit if you happened to have one. Its not that hard to do but if your concerned about it or dont have the proper tools to do it, it may be your best bet to just take it somewhere.

Some of the more experienced guys on here may have a list of links for you to get what you need for cheap.

 

[Ol'89r]

Take it to your local shop and have a heli-coil installed. It is a stainless steel thread that locks in place and you can use the oem drain plug. You can also buy a heli-coil kit from most industrial hardware suppliers and do it yourself.

 

[Jaybird]

AutoZone and PepBoys also carries an assortment of Heli-Coil insert kits. They are a bit pricey, and may be more than a shop might charge. Although the kits gives you multiple inserts.
Expect to pay from 25-50 bucks. (shrug)

Try to get situated so you can drill up into the hole (kit should have the proper bit), rather than laying the bike down to drill. Don't want shavings in the case.
Daub grease all over the included tap to help the little shavings stick to it.
Do remove the insert tang, and do NOT let it get into the case.

 

[ignition retard]

Had this same problem on a kx80 that I bought. I did the heli-coil, worked like a charm. When you do it though, first shine a light up into the hole, and check to see if the oil drains in to the plug hole from the side or the top, if it drains in from the side putting the heli-coil in will block the drain route, and you'll have to take off the clutch/kickstarter side cover and grind out a hole through the heli-coil that you inserted. Don't worry about the helicoil threads moving in the ground out section, they won't, it's been over a year on mine and they haven't budged.

 

[stumanarama]

the next step up from a helicoil would be a timesert, its a little more of a long term fix because it is a metal sleeve threaded on the inside and out that flares out on the bottom once inserted, but finding a retailer near you could be a p.i.a.

 

[skycotic101]

gonna look into the heli-coil. thanks for the help everyone.

 

[Ol'89r]

Try to get situated so you can drill up into the hole (kit should have the proper bit), rather than laying the bike down to drill. Don't want shavings in the case.
Daub grease all over the included tap to help the little shavings stick to it.
Do remove the insert tang, and do NOT let it get into the case.

Good points Jaybird. :cool:

If you have compressed air available, you can also blow air into the oil filler hole while you are tapping the drain hole and it will blow the chips out as you tap. If not, be sure to grease the tap like Jay said.

 

[BLACKeR]

something else simple to try is a different OEM drain plug. sometimes you can fine an OEM drain bolt from another bike that is a slightly larger diameter. this would be cheaper than a helicoil.

 

[skycotic101]

sounds good.....thanks

 

[robbieisurfriend]

Good points Jaybird. :cool:

If you have compressed air available, you can also blow air into the oil filler hole while you are tapping the drain hole and it will blow the chips out as you tap. If not, be sure to grease the tap like Jay said.

I dont think that is a very good idea. Putting compressed air of chips (even in a downward direction) is going to blow them up into the tranny MUCH worse than just letting gravity do its thing. If you do choose to do the helicoil then weaken the tang a little bit extra by bending it inward. This will make it easier to break off and keep out of the tranny. I would try to find a larger drain plug first thing. A drill bit and a tap and a drain plug would be the best way to go. I have had problems with helicoils in frequently used holes before. Worst case scenario you could just have a new plug made by a local machine shop. That is the best fix in my oppinion.

 

[Jaybird]

The air will never allow the chips to enter the hole. At the very least, it will be putting the numbers in your favor.
Do note where the man said to connect the air.

 

[robbieisurfriend]

The air will never allow the chips to enter the hole. At the very least, it will be putting the numbers in your favor.
Do note where the man said to connect the air.

Well I will just agree to disagree. I know that when I tap a blind hole, I blow compressed air into it and all of the chips come out no matter how your hold it. Simple physics, you blow the air in, it hits the tap thats covered in chips, the air bounces back up and brings chips with it. I suggest just letting gravity do its thing and be sure that you use a lot of oil. Good luck.

 

[Patman]

And why do the chips blow out? Perhaps something to do with the pressue in the hole being higher than inside? Same thing, pressurize the crankcase and the chips will be more inclined to be forced out that work against the pressurized air IN the crankcase. Pretty simple really.

 

[Ol'89r]

Do note where the man said to connect the air.

robbiesurfriend.

Go back and reread my post. I said to blow compressed air into the OIL FILLER HOLE, not the DRAIN HOLE. When you add air to the FILLER HOLE, it pressurizes the cases and blows the chips out of the drain hole as you tap. Greasing the tap like Jay said will insure the chips stick to the tap instead of going inside the gearbox.

In my shop we have done literally hundreds of helicoils using this method without any problems.

 

[robbieisurfriend]

Alright guys I will just butt out because I obviously know nothing. I understand you would be adding air from the top while tapping on the bottom. BUT, compressed air goes in streams, streams which blow chips AROUND. When the chip covered tap breaks through the hole will be clogged by the tap correct? The stream of air would then blow the chips off of the tap and around your case. You could in theory seal your air source at the filler hole and SLOWLY pressurize the case but I highly doubt it would help much. I doubt you could get enough chips in there to hurt anything if you tried. Pour some oil through it before you put the bolt back in.

I agree ol89, helicoils are great and I have put in hundreds myself. I have also had problems with them on bolts that need alot of torque or are frequently removed. You can always pull them out, retap, and put a new one in though.

 

[Jaybird]

If there were no other hole in the case when you added air, the case would become pressurized. If a hole suddenly appeared in the pressurized case, the pressurized air inside would immediately seek the exit at that hole, and the exit speed of the air would be determined by the pressure that existed. If that pressure on the entrance side was maintained, then after the initial loss of pressure, the air flow would remain constant out of the orifice. And that flow would be determined by the incoming pressurized air and the size of the exit orifice itself. No air would be able to enter into the vessel, from the exit orifice, if the pressure from the air chuck is maintained, as the atmospheric pressure is lower than the inside of the case that is being pressurized on a continuous basis.

And when you add the tap to the hole, you have effectively lessened the orifice area, which would cause the exiting air to escape at an even greater velocity than it was before, with even less chance of anything, including air and tapped metal chips, from entering into the pressurized vessel.

This is a novice issue. And sometimes we need to humble ourselves, especially when we are just commenting on what we think, instead of what we know. Sometimes longtime mechanics, with decades of experience, are involved in these threads. That can be a humbling experience on occasion.
I don't think you know nothing, but I do think you made a logical assumption by simply visualizing the concept. Trouble is your visualization forgot to include true physics, and replaced it with a "seems to me".

 

[Patman]

The visual seems to of also assumed the case was empty and not full of other parts which would not allow a stream of air a direct path at the tap/chips. Of course it's been a while since I slept at a Holiday Inn Express.

 

[Ol'89r]

When the chip covered tap breaks through the hole will be clogged by the tap correct? The stream of air would then blow the chips off of the tap and around your case.
I have put in hundreds myself. .

No that is not correct.

The tap does not clog the drain hole.

The tap has flutes as most taps do. When the air pressure is added to the filler hole, it blows the chips out of the drain hole through the flutes in the tap. Are you sure you've done this before????

Com'on guys, this aint rocket surgery or nuthin'. :coocoo:

 

[Rotorranch]

If there were no other hole in the case when you added air, the case would become pressurized. If a hole suddenly appeared in the pressurized case, the pressurized air inside would immediately seek the exit at that hole, and the exit speed of the air would be determined by the pressure that existed. If that pressure on the entrance side was maintained, then after the initial loss of pressure, the air flow would remain constant out of the orifice. And that flow would be determined by the incoming pressurized air and the size of the exit orifice itself. No air would be able to enter into the vessel, from the exit orifice, if the pressure from the air chuck is maintained, as the atmospheric pressure is lower than the inside of the case that is being pressurized on a continuous basis.

And when you add the tap to the hole, you have effectively lessened the orifice area, which would cause the exiting air to escape at an even greater velocity than it was before, with even less chance of anything, including air and tapped metal chips, from entering into the pressurized vessel.

This is a novice issue. And sometimes we need to humble ourselves, especially when we are just commenting on what we think, instead of what we know. Sometimes longtime mechanics, with decades of experience, are involved in these threads. That can be a humbling experience on occasion.
I don't think you know nothing, but I do think you made a logical assumption by simply visualizing the concept. Trouble is your visualization forgot to include true physics, and replaced it with a "seems to me".

:worship:

Very well stated!

Rotor

 

[Rotorranch]

No that is not correct.

The tap does not clog the drain hole.

The tap has flutes as most taps do. When the air pressure is added to the filler hole, it blows the chips out of the drain hole through the flutes in the tap. Are you sure you've done this before????

Com'on guys, this aint rocket surgery or nuthin'. :coocoo:

Exactly what I was about to say!

IF I were doing it this way, I might not grease the tap, thus allowing the chips to blow out the flutes a little easier, instead of sticking.

The suggestions above are full of good information.

Rotor

 

[Jaybird]

Com'on guys, this aint rocket surgery or nuthin'. :coocoo:

I say it IS! :cool:

 

[robbieisurfriend]

1.I have never added air to a tranny case, I said I have done hundreds of helicoils.
2. I stated that the stream of air was the problem, I know my shop runs 160psi, if you blow a stream (all you can do with most nozzles) it is most likely going to blow chips and everything else around no matter what is in the way. You are correct, this was a experience-lacking assumtion and if somebody has gone through the trouble and it worked well then more power to ya. Ive heard of more crazy tactics in the industry that worked. :)
3. I have a degree in machine tool technology and know that taps have flutes. I also know that whoever said that they would not use oil has never broken off a tap in an expensive part.

Im sorry for making assumptions that i shouldnt have since I have never seen the need to even try something like that. Next time I will just keep my mouth shut to save myself the embarrassment. . .

Happy Holidays
Your fellow rocket surgeon flunkee,
Rob